Religion vs Jesus

[One Shot]

Not fond of the medium but the message holds a lot of truth.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

os

[Bobitis]

I thinks it's one mans opinion put on youtube. But that's just me.

[ampaterry]

I think this young man is very sincere, and this is one of the best pieces I have seen done. He is exactly correct. Perhaps it appeals so much to me because I sought truth in several religions of the world before I was saved by Jesus Christ.

And personally, I HATE rap -

[user]

Religions are merely linguistic systems which might be more or less effective. Theology is a way of describing our own thoughts, opinions, aspirations, and fears, and tells us about us, not about God. The only thing that matters is that one is on his own path and moving. The goal is one-to-one correspondence with The-God-That-Is. I tell people to go into churches a little late and see what it feels like on the inside during the service. If you can feel the collective love from the people there, it's the right place to be; but if it feels like death warmed over, you can't get out of there fast enough. The religion doesn't matter; what matters is the relationship. And being with other people who share the relationship for mutual encouragement and support is a key factor in personal growth.

[ampaterry]

Religions are linguistic systems.
And Theology is about us and not God.

Honestly, I cannot agree with either statement.
Hmm.

[The tank]

I agree there is difference between Jesus and false religions, This video is awesome too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNGqrzkFp_4&feature=related

[One Shot]

Sorry Tank, there's no Truth in that version.

os

[jack404]

pure taqqiya , but nice try .. ( islam trying to score points off real faiths again)

[ampaterry]

Absolute propaganda, aimed at people who are ignorant of BOTH the Bible AND the Koran. Folks familiar with EITHER book can punch lots of holes in this production. Folks familiar with BOTH books can see it for the propaganda it is.

[graehaven]

I agree there is difference between Jesus and false religions, This video is awesome too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNGqrzkFp_4&feature=related

That video is satanic.

[jack404]

i find it funny that b those who project islam as a faith dont know it well enough for themselves , but are happy to shove it down everyone elses and say its wonderful , but never realise that islam is the most deadly and dangerous ideaology on the planet

Its killed more people and enslaved more than any other single thing ..

its stolen from the other major faiths, and mixed them with roman and greek mythology ( Nymrod etc) , and history and got it all so wrong ( alexander the great died young but the koran quote the old myth he really lived till he was old , the greeks got this wrong and allah copied this mistake . allah being moo hamm odd's alter ego )

but this video is to be expected in this light

a man does something to explain God and of course the islamics gotta copy it , thats how moo ham odd invented islam , a bit from here a bit from there , some psychotic inspriration and viola ! a new religion

now they'll twist this gents open and honest statement of faith and turn it to claim islam did it first and if the gent objects they'll put a fatwa on him so the truth wont ever be found ( so they think)

this evil persistant desire to be real like the other faiths does it too islamic as deep down i think most realise allah is a scam , islam is a scam , but are too afraid to say anything as look what happens if they do !!

pity the islamists , pray for them as they are all deceived ..

and pray the evil of mohammed stops in their life and they get free and clear of the greatest scam on the planet .. islam

[jack404]

http://vimeo.com/27655704

[BlackEagle]

http://vimeo.com/27655704

Thanks for that Jack;
I get regular email updates describing the persecuted church in the Middle East; but then Christians face a certain amount of persecution wherever we are.

The first video is spot on. When I was in high school, my classmates saw there was a difference between my lifestyle and theirs, and they asked me if I was religious. I thought a moment and said I sure hope not. What I have is a relationship with God through Jesus Christ that makes me a Christian. "Being religious" is, as far as I'm concerned, following a bunch of rules to try to look right. Relationship brings life and true peace. Religion has brought a world of pain and misery.

[graehaven]

We Christians in America have yet to be truly persecuted. And I'm afraid that that is what's coming, and soon.

The chinese church is PRAYING FOR persecution for America's Christians, so that we'll stop playing around and get serious. That is sobering.

[BlackEagle]

I've been reading Fox's Book Of Martyrs. It's a free download for anyone who has an e-book reader, from Projct Gutenberg http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/22400 . Really sobering reading and not for the squeamish.

[76Highboy]

Absolute propaganda, aimed at people who are ignorant of BOTH the Bible AND the Koran. Folks familiar with EITHER book can punch lots of holes in this production. Folks familiar with BOTH books can see it for the propaganda it is.

Bullseye. I don't believe in any religion, just my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who died for all.

[76Highboy]

We Christians in America have yet to be truly persecuted. And I'm afraid that that is what's coming, and soon.

The chinese church is PRAYING FOR persecution for America's Christians, so that we'll stop playing around and get serious. That is sobering.

Ditto on that.

[bernie57]

jesus is my lord and savior, but this all is sad

[ampaterry]

I agree, Bernie, it is sad.

But frankly, I am frightened when I see the direction our nation is heading.
I have studied the Koran and much of the Hadith, and understand what Islam believes.
I have looked at history, and seen what effect Islam has had on the countries it has come to dominate.
And I look at our present leadership, and hear their pronouncements that it is a "religion of peace", and realize that if this attitude does not change we may be facing dark days ahead here in the US.

At this point in history, I see Islam as the gravest danger facing our country, and our world.

[BlackEagle]

I agree, Bernie, it is sad.

But frankly, I am frightened when I see the direction our nation is heading.
I have studied the Koran and much of the Hadith, and understand what Islam believes.
I have looked at history, and seen what effect Islam has had on the countries it has come to dominate.
And I look at our present leadership, and hear their pronouncements that it is a "religion of peace", and realize that if this attitude does not change we may be facing dark days ahead here in the US.

At this point in history, I see Islam as the gravest danger facing our country, and our world.

Agree.

[One Shot]

I would say that from outside the US you are correct, but from within, Secular Humanism is doing far greater damage than Islam IMHO.

[ampaterry]

OS, I sure do disagree with secular humanism -
But they are not killing thousands of American citizens through terrorist acts.

Wait a minute -
Abortion does that, and it is certainly supported by this crowd -

Hmmm.

Tough call - -

[bernie57]

what are christians to do if muslims start killing us?I listen to jack van impe, he says we shouldnt murder but killing is diffeerent,when you kill a person because they murdered someone for money ,sex, or just to watch their lifes slip away,then killing them is not bad its the law, our constitution guarantes freedom of religion, and GOD given rights of life ,liberty and the pursuit of happiness, if one sect of of evil people try to kill us and take those rights away their guilty of murder, didnt Jesus say "he that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity,he that kills with a sword must be killed with the sword, and why does jesus say in luke 22.36and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. ?I SEE very clearly whats going on in the world, but I have no idea besides my faith of what I should do if I see my neighbors being murdered because of their faith...????

[One Shot]

If we fall from the outside it may well be to Islam. If we fall from the inside it will be to Secular Humanism. They do want a one world socialist government (who does that remind you of) and they support all the PC "Islam: the religion of peace" misinformation out there.

Too many are giving a pass to the Secular Humanist movement.

I often wonder if all the attention to Islam is just an effort to keep our eyes off the evil perpetrated by the Secular Humanists.

Is it possible that Islam is more like a tree and SH is more like the forest?

[ampaterry]

If I see someone murdering my neighbor, or ANYONE for that matter, I will not inquire whether they are SH or Islamic; I will stop them by any means necessary, including deadly.

The thing we must NOT do is to decide to kill a Muslim because ANOTHER muslim committed murder. We need to try to get them to LEAVE that evil system and turn to God.

[One Shot]

If I see someone murdering my neighbor, or ANYONE for that matter, I will not inquire whether they are SH or Islamic; I will stop them by any means necessary, including deadly.

The thing we must NOT do is to decide to kill a Muslim because ANOTHER muslim committed murder. We need to try to get them to LEAVE that evil system and turn to God.

Not sure if this is a response to my last post or not. I'm not in favor of killing anyone and I'm not sure where that came from. I would also like to show humanists the truth but that was not my point either.

My point is that we need to KNOW our enemies since Satan can take on many different forms. Both have a common theme of not being the Truth.

[ampaterry]

Not sure if this is a response to my last post or not. I'm not in favor of killing anyone and I'm not sure where that came from. I would also like to show humanists the truth but that was not my point either.

My point is that we need to KNOW our enemies since Satan can take on many different forms. Both have a common theme of not being the Truth.

No, it was not in response to yours.

[Ed~]

Thanks, graehaven, for your lead. I grew up with my Grandma and an aunt taking me regularly to their Chinese Baptist Sunday school and once even to a Christian Summer Camp. I got a whole lot of grief and guilt heaped on me from that church in those years, even though my own parents ironically were not religious (father being the practical ex-military type, hated religion).

However, reading the article regarding the Chinese Southern Baptist Church by Rev. Dapner http://www.christianexaminer.com/Articles/Articles%20Sep05/Art_Sep05_15.html gave me some insights to my own history with the Chinese Baptist Church. They are filled with immigrants who experienced personal pain in their lives and who seek the solace that a like-minded community can offer. They are also bound together by language and culture in a land that they don't perceive welcomes them (we are talking about the xenophobic Americans). Yet as a group, they managed to transform the suffering into strength, similar to the way Black Churches in the South did in the Civil Rights Era. Indeed, what doesn't kill does you seems to make you stronger.

For my part I don't have that intense immigrant experience in me and can hold my own ground with any fearful Nativist -not by a naturally strong personality- but because of my life's experiences. I have sought to chase down my personal/spiritual challenges in a direct way through education: reading to understand world history, philosophy, and yes religion; traveling to over 25 countries around the world, meeting and speaking with regular folks there first hand. After seeing enough faces and hearing enough stories, similar challenges exist all over the world so patterns start emerging.

At the same time seeing their physical hardships did make me feel humbled by the realization that with food on my table and a roof over my head, I have ZERO PROBLEMS by comparison (though I often forget that truth).

In the end, a sense of humility pervades into the self that feels like spiritual transformation. Like the young man who raps about his Finding Jesus outside the Church, the truth lies in recognizing the relative insignificance of one's own "problems" and ego while also knowing the beauty of one's place in the grand interconnected scheme of things. This experience is intensely personal.

The feeling is more like effusive love than the guilt that I felt as a child. It is also liberating while guilt appears to chain us to something.

So, yes One Shot, I tend to agree that personal spiritual growth is difficult to achieve in group religions, be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, etc... And yet, all I seem to express in my personal experience sounds darn similar to the Humanists that you are worried of.

I guess the difference is that "belief" of anything lacks the grounding of actually personally experiencing that truth. A belief can be called "Secularism" as much as any religious following of the commandments of God or a prophet. Some people call that actual experiencing walking into the woods/desert and coming out a different man; one who is naturally free of commandments but who follows the Golden Rule out of love and compassion for everyone.

And really, isn't that enough?

[ampaterry]

If this physical life is all there is, ed, then that is indeed enough.

For my part, I do not believe my life is merely the physical functioning of my body in the here and now; there is something that transcends this - -

[tcox4freedom]

I agree Terry there is more to life. More importantly is many people do not have the understanding as to the "origin" of ALL that is love.

1 John 4: 8, 16
8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

All love derives from GOD.

If we have the ability to "LOVE", it is only because of HIS grace. "TRUE" love will ALWAYS originate with God. True love will ALWAYS be GOD focused at it's core; and it will be returned to HIM willingly. True LOVE and God cannot be separated one from another.

This is a very "simple", BUT "eternal" TRUTH.

-

[Ed~]

I'm glad you put it that way Terry. It helps to further hone the argument; point to the one Truth that we are all seeking to resolve.

My own interpretation of the teachings of Christ is that the Truth lay in the practice of daily living so that you may know both its difficulties and the blessings. Christ was crucified for the way he lived and yet he asked forgiveness for those who killed him out of compassion for a brother who was lost and "following orders"; indeed, forgave those who gave the order!

If the soul is treated as an everlasting ornament that is only taken out for special occasions like Church, doesn't that allow the lower instincts of the self to pervade your life the other six days of the week? -isn't that missing the point of life?

Mathew 16:24 (new living translation 2007): Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me.

So no, there is no 'merely functioning' to applying the teachings of Christ in your life now and in every moment. It takes integrity to bear that cross of personal challenges in each of our lives. I am honest to admit for me this way of living is very hard and very rewarding. You begin to see more and more that in every moment there lay a choice of doing and saying only what you are willing to take author to in public, rather than automatic reaction and defensiveness later to justify our thoughtless actions only when discovered.

By choosing the path of Christ at every juncture in life, you can live and know for a fact that whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

[One Shot]

Ed,

Christ was killed because he claimed to be God, not because of the way he lived.

He was also very hard on the established "Religion" of the day. He did not come to establish a church as much as to establish a relationship with his children.

Not all "churches" are bad but the apostate ones are. If a church is doing it's job it should be pointing people to a growing relationship with Jesus Christ. (The Truth)

The Humanists are 180 degrees off from what the Bible teaches.

It is sad that so many have been hurt by an apostate church. It is all the more reason that we must separate what we see that is called "the church" and decide if it is Christ's church or not.

Don't throw the baby out with the bath. Jesus Christ is still "The Truth" even if parts of his church fail him.

And YES, The church is to be 24/7 not just for show.

[ampaterry]

Ed, it is quite possible we do not disagree, but are merely hampered by the medium of communication involved. I was responding to this:
"one who is naturally free of commandments but who follows the Golden Rule out of love and compassion for everyone.

And really, isn't that enough?"

I was in no way suggesting that we:
"If the soul is treated as an everlasting ornament that is only taken out for special occasions like Church, doesn't that allow the lower instincts of the self to pervade your life the other six days of the week? -isn't that missing the point of life?"

The Christian walk is a 24/7 walk, not a one hour a week walk; we are in full agreement.

I differ only on what you seemed to say in the first statement quoted above, that living by the golden rule was sufficient for salvation; (enough).
Salvation requires a personal relationship with God.
And once that relationship is established, the golden rule becomes a natural desire rather than a rule to follow.

I am capable of forgiving others, although sometimes with GREAT difficulty, because God forgave me for every horrid thing I have ever done.
I am capable of loving them for the same reason; because God loves me.

[Python]

I differ only on what you seemed to say in the first statement quoted above, that living by the golden rule was sufficient for salvation;
.
John1:12..."As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name".

Ephesians 2:8-9..."By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast".

1 John 5:11-13..."And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life".

[Ed~]

Excellent points, Terry. Yes, I believe we are in agreement. It does take work and integrity to walk the path. And God (nor our own memory & conscience) doesn't sleep.

And though my own views of Salvation may differ, they are not divergent.

I simply believe in more immediate outcomes for our actions: a heaven or hell on earth. Whatever one sows, one reaps quite rapidly. We tend not to see that in other people's lives because we can't follow them all the time. But we can follow ourselves and be honest!

As an example even if we got away with, say, shoplifting as a kid once or twice, eventually we may expect to get caught and experience the embarrassment of being arrested -maybe in front of our friends or our Parents!

But even if we never get arrested, the truth is the cost of the items stolen eventually gets priced back into the goods that everyone pays for. If too many people steal, the business will fail and we'll have one less place in the community to shop for our needs. We may not see this underlying business system at work as a child nor even an employee and only later become aware of it as a manager or business owner, but it has always the case.

Levels of awareness goes hand in hand with personal growth.

People who act poorly, say rude things, they are not only sowing bad seeds for the near future, they are experiencing the direct results of their past words and actions. They probably have few friends and experience frustrating things on a regular basis. They don't see how they alienate themselves from others and close off social energies of help and support. They live in a life of hell on earth.

It is easier to forgive people like that if they happen to spill some of their negativity onto you -you simply understand why they are the way they are without any reflection on yourself. They are nothing more than a walking toxic stew best avoided unless you have on a strong 'spiritual hazmat suit'.

Yet, the cost for not forgiving other's transgression is to live in contamination of that same anger and frustration. We start living in hell, and creating hell on earth for those close to us. To me that is unacceptable. That is laziness and certainly not walking the talk as self-professed followers or Christ.

So it all goes back to having the integrity to hold love and compassion not just for the lovable, but for all our neighbors. That results in an immediate happier life for ourselves and for those around us. That is working diligently, every day, to create heaven on earth and not leaving Salvation for an afterlife.

Merely casting our allegiance to one religion or talking piously without 'cleaning one's house' is not enough. But I agree that if the practice of walking one's talk is strong, then I trust the outcome would be the same: heaven on earth.

[Ed~]

Full Disclosure:
I am currently in a legal battle with a neighbor who has 'Love Your Mother Earth' stickers all over their cars yet chose to move their fence out toward us 10 feet (on their land) to add 16% more to their private garden by reducing of 45% of our SHARED PARKING TURNAROUND (straddling their land and our's; the only access we have to our covered parking). They did this without consulting us first and were duly warned during construction not to reduce our only access. Quite simply, they didn't care.

Thus far it has cost us $3000 in surveys and legal fees laying the groundwork before actually heading to court. They don't have a legal leg to stand on to defend their actions but if they choose to contest our lawsuit, it will take at least a year of our lives and the loser risks paying the winning side's legal fees (minimum $6000-$12,000) in addition to their own lawyer.

Through this experience I've applied everything I've written above as an acid-test in my life. Trust me when I say living in anger and frustration (and fear of loss) really leads to hell on earth, for myself and everyone around me.

And believe me when I say it is possible to forgive even while you are in a battle to stave off an aggressor...

Because I see now how anyone who was happy and living a joyful life would never have considered moving a fence to start a war where they live. Neighbors and friends see that they are pretty imbalanced in their lives and surprised they believed they could get away with such aggression. Quite simply, the husband moved the fence because he would rather push against a friend rather than say NO to his dragon-lady wife. He is not a confident man in his 50's but a boy running from trouble. She is a licensed clinical counselor who regularly pronounces, "I can't handle men who raise their voice because my father abused me as a child," while yelling in disagreements. Their only child, a girl of 8, openly cries and throws tantrums at public gatherings. Their relationship is nothing less than hell on earth.

I understand them, feel bad for their insanity, and so cannot hate them even as I must 'gird up our loins' and prepare for battle. I have been forced to stretch myself in order to overcome this challenge -even as I recognize the tremendous growth I've made because of it.

Believe me, on my own I wouldn't have chosen to spend three-grand this way nor learn to forgive so deeply in the face of possibly greater loss... praise be to GOD.

[bountyh]

i find it funny that those who project islam as a faith dont know it well enough for themselves , but are happy to shove it down everyone elses and say its wonderfulTo be fair, that statement applies equally to Christianity in many parts of this country. I went to PUBLIC school in Louisiana in the late 50's where every day started with a class recitation of the Lord's prayer and they had Jesus statues on the walls.

I happen to be a Christian, but when I hear some of the hate-filled garbage spewing from the mouths of those who claim to also be Christians, I wonder if they ever read a bible.

[bountyh]

Ed,

Christ was killed because he claimed to be God, not because of the way he lived.He was killed because He threatened the power structure of the church which existed at the time. He pointed out their hypocrisy and corruption and that sealed His fate.

[bountyh]

The chinese church is PRAYING FOR persecution for America's Christians, Funny what some "good christian" people pray for.... I guess that comes under the heading of "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Southern Baptist Minister Prays for Obama's Death

Washington Afro, News Report, James Wright, Posted: Jul 07, 2009 Review it on NewsTrust

(June 21, 2009) - A well-known minister of a denomination that once supported slavery and is firmly against a woman�s right to an abortion said recently that he is praying for President Obama to die.


The Rev. Wiley Drake, a former second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, told Fox News Radio earlier this month that he was practicing �imprecatory prayer� or seeking a divine curse that would cause the president to die. 

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=a80fb9ef697d8b6381e725e5b3da72c1

[cycloneman]

To the young man that made this video - golf clap.

Religion and attending church is a historical lesson. You go if you want to hear a story of the past and try to apply it to your life today. Take it if you want it. Leave it if you dont. If you practice what you learn in a true Christian church than you can call yourself a Christian.

This guy may have been disallusioned (sp) by some less than honorable churches. But that does not give him the right to shrugg off all religion. If he follows Christ teaching then he is following a religion.

Remember what Jesus said to Peter.