JOB RANT!

[Rocketman1]

I just got to get it out of my system, but will be careful what I say, because you never know who may be reading. Is the good old USA work force getting stupid, or is it just the place I work. Just curious to know if anyone else feels the way I do.

I have had the same job for thirty-five years, working to support the sales group of a family owned business, by sizing, costing, and giving technical advise for the manufacture of industrial equipment. (Don’t want to give any more job description than that away.) I do not have a college degree, but grew into the position over the years. I’m sort of a jack-of-all-trades, and master of none. My experience ranges from steel fabrication, electrical control systems, electrical power systems, mechanical equipment, and many other things.

The company had a big down sizing a few years ago, and laid off a lot of their experienced engineers. Now they have engineers straight out of college that don’t know a stinking thing. I think that part of the problem may be that these young college students are not given any hands on experience in the real world, and they don’t know how to apply what; if anything that they learned. Part of the problem may also be that the company doesn’t higher the right person for the job. Just because someone has an electrical engineering degree doesn’t mean they know anything about PLC control systems or high voltage power systems, because their degree is actually in transistor electronics. But of course the company thinks they know it all, because they have a degree! And my years of experience means nothing to them.

If a rotating mechanical piece of equipment requires a 300 hp, 1200 rpm motor driven by a variable speed drive, you CAN NOT use a 300hp 1800 rpm motor and turn it down to 1200 rpm with the variable speed drive! Why, because it will not develop the torque required, so it is essentially no longer a 300 hp motor! Torque (ft lbs) = (BHP*5250)/RPM

IDIOTS!!

[jack404]

know what your saying , see it here daily , sad eh..

[woolleyworm]

It is the good old USA work force getting stupid; I've seen it all over the place. Companies are bringing in green and untrained workers to "save" in labor costs. They're only bringing temporary relief to their budgets instead of looking at ways that they can actually be "sustainable" for the long term. They don't dare shrink profit margins, yet that would be the best long term option.
This is what gets me and you've probably seen it too. Companies get rid of a majority of their older experience work force and replace them with green hands; there is no over-lap, so the new workforce can get actual training with the people that actually have the know-how.
I've seen "early retirement" options where 30-40% of the workforce is turned over, the place goes to hell in a handbasket for awhile and never reaches the same productivity level as when properly trained and educated folks were in those jobs. The new level is now the "norm"....... it's not long before what would have been piss poor quality 10 years ago is now considered "passable" and ok to send to the consumers.

...... enough rant from me, y'all know how it is out there in alot of companies nowadays anyways. Rosie woulda kicked the snot outa 90% of todays workforce. ( for those that don't know Rosie the Riveter, google "her". )

[mjp28]

The last generation or two (*with a few exceptions) doesn't really have the old time work ethic.

It's all over, my wife has 30+ years in a hospital, the new nurses are bad and don't give a hoot about anything....except payday.

[cycloneman]

gee you dont want to get me started. I work with architects and engineers on every project I do. I am just a commercail fence contractor and DUDE you dont want to get me strated. I have little white pills to keep me from strangling people. I sit in on progress meetings with all the trades and see that the problems i encounter is not limited to me.

When I look at a project that has 5 or 6 addendas and they are just as long as the original plans i know the job is in the toilet.

One trade can hold up everyones retainage on a project.

AND IT PISSES ME OFF.

[BETH]

all jobs are like that, the older people work and the young kids don't

[Zane71464]

Hands on experiance, they dont get!!!
Most that Ive seen in this "new" generation, their parents BUY them a car as soon as they turn of age, they dont (most) get part time jobs while in school, their parents support their EVERY need and then they go from school, straight to the work force.
I could go on and on about this....sickens me to see a 16yr old out driving a new vehicle that would take an "average" person a while to accuire.....my opinion, "their not taught to work!!!!! Plain and simple.

[Vladimir]

What do you expect when all anyone is told that matters is school and education?

And give the young guys a break, they are stuck in a trap they do not really have any opportunity to get hands on experience, hard to get a job without experience and hard to get experience without a job.

[Zane71464]

What do you expect when all anyone is told that matters is school and education?

And give the young guys a break, they are stuck in a trap they do not really have any opportunity to get hands on experience, hard to get a job without experience and hard to get experience without a job.

In my post, I wasnt meaning ALL young people have that life, but by the time I was 16 I had about 7 years of job/work experiance to take to my first job interview.

[Zane71464]

...here's an example : I'm in the BMV line getting my plates re-newed and I hear a lady ask if I knew of anyone that does lawn work? I got to talking to the lady and asked what she was looking for?
She said, just someone to cut my grass once a week! I asked if she had any young people living in her neighbothood? She said; "sure do" but they "dont cut lawns"".
...fine example there.

[Zane71464]

....and at 30 bucks for a 20 min. job and her neighbors needing the same work done...I might be in the wrong buisness, myself!!!!

[BradleyCole09]

I have gotten all my training on the job 7 years and I'm fairly versatile( tig,countersinking, tap, press breaks, Pem hardware) it pissis me off to see my boss bring in 3 temps making minimum wage and not getting the new equipment that would remove the need for them not to mention the 17 year old patched together punchpress jerryriged to function. It is sad when it's all about bypassing safety equipment that the switches have failed on but still make it look like it works so we won't get violations.... It's all about the bosses bottom line why spend it on the shop when u can spend it on toys and the bottom line don't change

[Python]

And give the young guys a break, they are stuck in a trap they do not really have any opportunity to get hands on experience, hard to get a job without experience and hard to get experience without a job.
Its always been that way.

[Zhurh]

I've seen engineers who were really good, then others who BS'ed their way through until it blew up in their face, then others yet who hung around for years.

That piece of paper is the ticket through the front door just the same. Why parents are spending 25-75K per year on their kid's education. I don't think reality will ever change either.

[mjp28]

I've seen engineers who were really good, then others who BS'ed their way through until it blew up in their face, then others yet who hung around for years.

That piece of paper is the ticket through the front door just the same. Why parents are spending 25-75K per year on their kid's education. I don't think reality will ever change either.

That trend is changing slightly, more kids are going to 1 and 2 year programs or going into trade schools with grants and forgoing the $100,000+ college path and student loan debt.

America needs more skilled trades and less history majors.

[mjp28]

Its always been that way.

When I graduated HS in 1968 you could get a good paying mill job and even get in an apprenticeship, four years later you had a craft and some good experiance.

I started in maintenance at 18 and went to college part time. Got my degree in 6 years worked out great.

[gun-nut]

I have that as well. I have 14 years of machining and these younger kinds that have but a HS deploma get paid more then i do!:eek: I have no degree but neather do they. So what gives?:confused:

[flintlock]

One of the best mornings at work I can remember was watching four new engineering graduates put together a Sauder desk. Four hours, a power screw driver and a bunch of confused looks. There is no substitute for experience, and not many colleges offer programs that give the students any.

[carver]

It's been my experience that a man gets a job. He works at that job for many years, learning all about that particular job. His starting pay is about the same as anyone else in that field. Each year he gets a raise in pay, plus bennies. After 30 years on the job it is much cheaper to fire him/her, and hire someone new that will do the job for a lot less money, and they have the sheep skin to prove that they went to school to learn how to do the job, which the older employee never had! The new person has no experience, and no work ethic. They went to school to learn how to make a good living! Think about that for a moment! In our bold new world I have been turned down for jobs because I was over qualified, and because my skin was the wrong color. It's only getting worse!

[time2shoot]

I can honistly say I have Trained 3 of my Bosses on how to do the job I did.
Company hiered them straight off the street, just so i can teach them my skills so they can make more monney then I did.Insulting
To make a long story short I don't work there or any place anymore. They stuck some one in a job, who had no idea what he was doing. thanks to that bright idea. And a doublle back surgery so i can still walk, And massive pain meds. for the rest of my life. I can no longer work.

[sctt77]

ive worked on a farm since i was 13 not now cause back problems but my kids are always saying we want this we want that told them that i would pay them so much to help around our home they rather set an do nothin than earn it so when they ask now i tell them you have to earn it only one that does is my 13 yr old boy

[gvw3]

When you get old they want to get rid of you as you cost too much in health care. Don't blame the kids for this. Two of my kids have college degrees with big student loans and work for Walmart for $8 hr. There are very few good jobs left. The rich and powerful have gutted this country for over 30 years. Our country is a shell of what it once was. We now live in a failed economy. They just won't admit it...

[raven818]

They announced this morning that the unemployment rate dropped to 8.3. They also said, if you add in the folks who have given up and the folks who are working part-time, or working jobs way below their trained skills, the rate is actually 15 to 16 percent.

The economists also remarked....the people in the private sector who are unemployed are roughly 15 million.

" no president has ever been reelected with a rate 8% or higher ".

Looks like their fixing that figure for him.

[Ed~]

What you are describing is typical knowledge in the Medical world.

New Grads with medical degrees get put into clinical rotations to Learn to Heal human beings.

Wonder why this isn't regularly done or even recognized in other occupations? A degree from anything other than a 2 year college doesn't state anything other than your ability to learn from books and regurgitate. Associates Degrees say more about hands on training than 4 year Bachelors or Masters these days.

Don't even mention Doctorates. Talk about out of touch... Too bad most of these folks are the one's making policy these days.

[Ed~]

When you get old they want to get rid of you as you cost too much in health care.

Yes, and this only happens in the United States, folks.

Why? Because we are the only Industrialized Country in the World without a guaranteed health insurance system that covers all its citizens regardless of employment status or age --and puts the burden of providing health insurance on the employers or individuals themselves.

Not because we as a society can't afford Universal Medicare. We are paying more right now! --paying more than would be necessary to cover each and every American but still leaving 2/3rds of our people uninsured or under-insured. Private health insurance companies are simply raking in 30% under the current scheme for their profits & overhead (aka CEO salaries and bonuses). In other words, we are being screwed in a big time shaft-job due to their $1 million/day lobbying on Capitol Hill.

Wonder why more experienced workers are being laid off and replaced by kids? Wonder why the US is not Economically Competitive now? Look to Healthcare.

[Capt Mac Turk]

One of my best days was about 6 months ago.:D

My license & I have done alot I can run about anything.

This boat yard I used to move boats for hired a "New Cheaper guy"

I was @ the boat yard next store when

"Capt Cheaper guy" Backed a Saweeeeet Yacht into,,,,,,,,,, a Saweeeeter one,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 1,000,000 in Damage!

Last time they called I Said NO THANKS I CANT FOLLOW THAT ACT! :D

[76Highboy]

TECHNICIAN: The person that does the designing, the building, the mods, and finds the solution.

ENGINEER: The person that takes the credit for what the technician gets accomplished.

I am no longer a technician. Now I have a job where the owner says, "If you lie, or steal from me, I will fire you. But if you are willing to work, you'll always have a job." He also says, he will never place an expectation on me. Instead he says that he just wants me to do my best,,, and that is all. If I work longer in the day, he thanks me. My employer is Gold to me. In 8 years he has never rooked me a penny. The first day he hired me, he said if your present employer lets you go when you give your two weeks, come straight over because I don't want you to go without pay. Then, on my first day, he gave me a 401k, and health insurance with benefits for my daughter. As a matter of fact, if there is a question about a dollar owed, it falls my way. If you knew what I did, you would think that I was just a dumb work horse. People see me and I know what they think. However I will tell you this. I would rather work myself tired like I do. I would rather work with sweat rolling down by back and face. I would rather work busting my a$$ 10.5 hours a day, 5 days a week, and have the man that signs my paycheck have a genuine interest in me, and care about my well being than be a number at a job. My employer is successful,,, extremely successful,, overly successful,,, independently wealthy successful!!! No decisions are made by him unless he prays about it. He says that the greatest joy in life is seeing a person succeed. Now that's worth a million bucks. When I shoot my guns, I earned them and I am proud.

I hope you all find that kind of job.

Jim

[76Highboy]

:One of my best days was about 6 months ago.:D

My license & I have done alot I can run about anything.

This boat yard I used to move boats for hired a "New Cheaper guy"

I was @ the boat yard next store when

"Capt Cheaper guy" Backed a Saweeeeet Yacht into,,,,,,,,,, a Saweeeeter one,

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 1,000,000 in Damage!

Last time they called I Said NO THANKS I CANT FOLLOW THAT ACT! :D

:lmao2::lmao2::lmao2:

[cycloneman]

Just be happy you got a jobbie

[BlackEagle]

Highboy that sounds like a great job...an honest day's pay for an honet day's work, and an employer that makes you more important than just a means to make money.

I got an "academic" diploma from high school, took a lot of academic courses, but the most useful course I took was power mechanics, where I learned to work on cars. When we went to visit my uncle he was always doing something, and he automatically included me in as part of the workforce. I learned a lot of practical things there, and even a little common sense.

The bottom line is, education alone is never enough. Hands on experience and plenty of uncommon common sense are necessary to make a well-rounded capable worker.

[76Highboy]

Highboy that sounds like a great job...an honest day's pay for an honet day's work, and an employer that makes you more important than just a means to make money.

I got an "academic" diploma from high school, took a lot of academic courses, but the most useful course I took was power mechanics, where I learned to work on cars. When we went to visit my uncle he was always doing something, and he automatically included me in as part of the workforce. I learned a lot of practical things there, and even a little common sense.

The bottom line is, education alone is never enough. Hands on experience and plenty of uncommon common sense are necessary to make a well-rounded capable worker.

Ditto brother!!!

[Rocketman1]

What do you expect when all anyone is told that matters is school and education?

And give the young guys a break, they are stuck in a trap they do not really have any opportunity to get hands on experience, hard to get a job without experience and hard to get experience without a job.

Yes, I would agree. I don't think it is their fault, and I was once in their shoes. When I started working at the company I didn't know much either, but what realy gets under my skin is that I know the degreed engineers are making more than I am. So I teach them, but they get the pay and the recognition. Last week we had meetings with our customer on a large project that we sold. All the big wigs were thier. The project manager told me that he may need me in the meeting for certain things, and I said fine. I get called in early in the morniing to answer questions about the electrical power system that we sold. I go in and two of our degreed elctrical engineers are already in their. So why do they need me?

[Rocketman1]

Each year he gets a raise in pay, plus bennies. After 30 years on the job it is much cheaper to fire him/her, and hire someone new that will do the job for a lot less money, and they have the sheep skin to prove that they went to school to learn how to do the job, which the older employee never had! The new person has no experience, and no work ethic. They went to school to learn how to make a good living!

Man aint that the truth.

Over the years I have seen the older guys in our company forced to retire early, or their the first ones to get laid off, because they supposable make more. Since I'm now becoming one of the older guys, and I happen to still be there, that tells me I don't make as much money as the ones that they let go. And thats because I don't have that sheep skin, but they keep me around to train. Something tells me that they would be in a world of hurt if I left. Is it time to demand a raise?

[Rocketman1]

Just be happy you got a jobbie

Yes, you got that right. And I am in deed thankful.
It just gets a little frustrating at times, and I guess I need to learn how to brush it off and go with the flow, but that’s hard when you feel that you are unappreciated.

[gvw3]

Yes, and this only happens in the United States, folks.

Why? Because we are the only Industrialized Country in the World without a guaranteed health insurance system that covers all its citizens regardless of employment status or age --and puts the burden of providing health insurance on the employers or individuals themselves.



I agree. Who do you trust. Demarcates will tax you to death and take your guns. Republicans are right wing waco's. I think we should kick them all out. Vote for all new crooks.

Both party's are just to extreme. Where is the middle of the road.

[Bobitis]

I agree. Who do you trust. Demarcates will tax you to death and take your guns. Republicans are right wing waco's. I think we should kick them all out. Vote for all new crooks.

Both party's are just to extreme. Where is the middle of the road.

The problem lies in the fact that the lane that used to be in the middle is now up to the curb on the left. The only thing left is the bike path. Compromise is a one way street. :mad: It always results in dead end.

BTT

I'm with ya RM. I've turned many a wrench in my time, and my knowledge stems more from experience than book learning. The stuff ya do makes a much better impression.

I had a Kia that was under warranty that would die at an idle. I took it to the dealer where the 'technician' hooked it up to lotsa equipment. Said 'technician', and all his state of the art equipment, couldn't find anything wrong. :(

I picked the car up, and at the 1st red light I came to I turned on the headlights as it was beginning to rain and dusk was approaching. Car dies. Hmmm.... Idle w/o lights, no problem. Idle with lights, car dies. I pulled into a parking lot to test my theory. Yep! Electrical at heart. I continued home with parking lights only when stopped. I got to the garage, and low and behold, the battery was about bone dry.
I topped it off and it got me to a new battery a couple weeks later.

My point is, book learning don't cut it. Just cuz yer qualified to run all that fancy equipment, don't mean have a clue.

I talk to engineers frequently, and they ask the simplest questions. Stoopid questions! WTH questions. For the most part, I can tolerate ignorance cuz none of us know everything. But when yer making twice as much as me, and ya just spent 200K fer that pc of paper ya call a degree; stoopid questions don't get a professional response. :rolleyes: Regular folks I can tolerate. :)