Colt or Smith & Wesson...?

[Tony Mig]

Now that I have a little wheel gun, I want a big one too......

I originally had my sights set on getting a Colt Python Elite because of thier outstanding quality, and fit & finish.....they sure are purdy guns......;)

I've been told by a few on the chat boards, and some of the wheel gun shooters at the range that even though the Python is a beautiful gun, they are way over priced, and they don't have the best trigger pull.
Several of these wheel gun shooters are pointing me in the direction of the S&W 686. I deffinitely see more guys shooting S&W's than Colts, and many of these fellows can afford anything they want to buy.

So the big question here is....do I save my money for the next 3 years so I can buy a Colt Python, or only have to save up for a few months to buy the S&W 686.........?

[sig_230]

If you can get an older Python, I don't think you'll find anything that compares short of the Classic Smith N frame M-27. But I can't get too excited about the Python Elite.

[pickenup]

Since it only takes a "few months" to get a 686, get one.
Then you can decide over the next "3 years" if you want a Python.

[Shooter45]

The Colt Python is nice but I'll take the S&W 686 anyday.

I traded my last one to Tuckered1 and still miss it.

[Marlin]

I'm with sig_230.

I'd opt for a Colt if I were guarenteed one of the older Pythons manufactured before the shake-up at the factory and the severe cut-back both in personel and offerings. I have a very close friend that was caught in the shake-up back then and he has enlightened me many times on what the changes mean to quality and etc.

I would go ahead and get the S&W now and then start your three year program while you look for an outstanding older Python.

[Tony Mig]

Yeah Marlin...between what's going on at Colt, and S&W...maybe I should be looking at a Ruger GP-161 instead. I hear nothing but great things about them, and Ruger isn't laying off thier work force, or signing deals with the devil like the past owners of S&W did.......

I've owned 5 Ruger products in the past, and was happy with 4 out of the 5 products....(The Mini-14 was very inaccurate, reliable, but inaccurate)

[Tony Mig]

I was checking out this limited edition KGP-141TG that Ruger has.
It's got this "Target Grey" stainless steel finish that almost looks like it's parkerized, the only thing is, it's only offered in a 4" barrel version, and I was leaning more towards a 6".

I preffer the looks of a blued revolver over a shiny s/s one, but the bluing isn't as durrable, this target grey finish is a really cool comprimise, and I understand that it's almost indestructable.
I could live with a 4" barrel, and if this finish proves to be popular, I assume Ruger will start offering it in other models......

[stash247]

There is no sweeter action than a K-frame Smith. A 4 pound double action trigger is truly possible, and, unlike Colt, where all the timing error is taken up on one side, so you can pick who you shower with shaved lead, they're all pretty close, excepting the Bangor-Punta years.
If you must have a Python, Reeves Jungkind (sp) in Austin, Tx, can make it work like nobody else.

[Tony Mig]

Thanks Stash, but the more I look into this, the more I think the Python is out.....
I'm down to comparing the S&W 686, and the Ruger GP-100's.
I looked long and hard at a S&W 686PP...(ported model)...yestarday, and the trigger pull was sweet, in both DA & SA, and the total package impressed me.
I'll look at a couple of Rugers in the coming weeks, I'm in no hurry, as I don't have the money to buy a box of ammo, let alone a new revolver......:rolleyes:

[stash247]

There's no difference, far as I know, in the lockwork of a 686 and a model 10. If you want a serious double action revolver, this is a can't lose deal!
If the Ruger is REALLY right on price, the only penalty is weight.
But the Smith, for the same money, will be a treasure forever. Any good 'smith can keep it close to heaven, forever. And a lot closer, in the short run. 'Nuf said?

[45Smashemflat]

I'm with you on this Stash - 2 Model 10's, a snub and a 4", both old as dirt. The more your shoot them, the better the trigger gets. Then there are the two J Frames - one old air weight and then the new Ti. Had to get used to the look of the hammer on the new Ti - "Hey, that's broke! Where's the firing pin!!" But other than that, they are great!

I do have two Rugers, a older Single Six and a Redhawk. Still great guns - if you have plans to reload and push the power envelope - I'd go Ruger. But, they are generally larger and heavier pieces.

[Tony Mig]

I noticed that about the Rugers, they do wiegh a little more, but they look and feel like they've built like a brick sh!t house, and I can imagine a hot load would ever hurt it.
Not that the S&W felt flimsy, it also has that well made feel about it, it's just the Ruger feels over built.

[Tony Mig]

There's an outside chance that I may still get my hands on a used Python.....

Manufacture date estimated to be some time around the later 60's to early 70's, 6" barrel, Stainless Steel, and I might be able to get it for around $500.00. I still haven't seen it yet, but will get a chance to check it out on Thursday or Friday of this week.
I told the guy that I may have to make time payments on it, and he seemed to find that exceptible.
I'm not committing to anything until I see it, and at least feel the trigger pull, and if it has any timing problems or worn out parts...the guy selling it is a gunsmith, so he can make it right....;)

[stash247]

Stainless?-or nickel???
In my recollection, it was late 70's or early 80's for the first of Colt' stainless revolvers; Nickel could be as old as 1955
Hope that helps...

[45Smashemflat]

Nickel? That's pushing pimp gun, isn't it??:) :)

Just joshin' - stay away from the pearl grips though, or we'll really talk aboutcha!!

[Tony Mig]

Didn't General Patton have pearl grips on his revolvers......?
Are you saying old George was a pimp.......:eek:

It must be an early 70's then, because it does look to be stainless and not nickle. It was listed on *********.com, but it's not there anymore, which means one of two things....nobody bid on it, and he's bringing back into his shop for me to buy.......:) or somebody bid over reserve, and I'm out of luck.....:(

If I'm out of luck, and buy something new, it'll be between the S&W 686, or the Ruger GP-161...and right now I'm leaning towards the Ruger.....

[Hydra Shok]

Hey Tony, I know you already got a Rossi, and your lookin for a big revolver, but you mentioned the Ruger GP-161. Have you looked at a SP-101? Nice medium / small framed .357. I fondled one at the gun show this past weekend, I may have to put one on my list.

[sig_230]

Ivory Tony, Ivory.

[stash247]

There's something to be said for the SP101.
Cut that damned hammer off, take 2 1/2 coils off the hammer/trigger spring, and stone the hammer and sear.
What's left is an almost indestructible, but heavy, pocket gun with a great accuracy potential.
The bad news is, I've done 2, got none. Good news-both my kids now have a go almost anywhere, do anything with any load, pocket gun you can stake your life on--- they're that good!
The guns, not the kids...

[45Smashemflat]

Patton - One of the best movies ever -

"Pearl? That's Ivory, son. Pearl Handles belong in a New Orleans whore house!"

Or something like that - its pretty close to Patton's response to a reporter who asked about his "pearl handled revolvers."

He carried a Colt Single action and one of the first .357 Smith's, by the way.

SP101 - great gun, just weighs a ton!!!

[Tony Mig]

With all the information I've been collecting lately concerning full sized .357 Mag wheel guns, the Ruger's are well built, but the trigger pull leaves a lot to be desired. And I've heard that you really have to look them over because of QC problems with many of them.....(canted barrels, rough work).....
I've already bought one new gun...(Beretta 96FS)....that needs trigger work to lighten it up, I really don't want a second trigger problem in my arsenal.

The one S&W 686PP I looked at, and dry fired was a dream, it felt really good in my hands, the trigger pull is smooth and easy, the stock target sights are very good, and it comes drilled & tapped for mounting a scope or red dot sight should I wish to add one some day.
The asking price of this gun is $575.00, and I've been told that is a bit on the high side, but after calling around to other S&W dealers in my area, it's in the general ball park. One other dealer has the 686..(non ported model)...for $540.00....(I'd pay $35.00 more for the factory porting)

I spent the better part of this morning listing a bunch of stuff on E-Bay, if everything sells at the price I want, I'll be real close to having the money I'll need to get one of these wheelies......wish me luck.....;)

OH'......sorry about the mistake......Ivory grips it was on General George's revolvers.....not pimp pearl.....:D

[sig_230]

I'd pick a NON-ported model over a ported one for any possible use except seriouos target shooting.

[stash247]

Amen on the porting! Unless you enjoy tinting your glasses, the underside of your cap, etc, why is it needed on a .357?
My contender barrel in 45-70, OK, but I can't find any 405gr .357 bullets anywhere, so I fail to see the need.

[Tony Mig]

Well this gun will be use solely for target shooting.
My Beretta 96 will be relegated to home defense, and the wheel gun will be my main target range shooter. I've never had a ported long barrel before, and though it might add to target shooting accuracy. I'm not totally sold on the idea, but since this particular gun had it.......:confused:

Today I checked out a pair of Ruger GP-100's. One is the GP-161, and the other a KGP-161.
The KGP-161 has a very nice fit & finish, feels solid to the point of being over built, and felt very good in my hands. The trigger pull is longer than the S&W 686, and not as easy, but it's no where near as bad as I've been hearing. It's as smooth as the 686, but a little harder. Pulling it in DA, it's fairly light until you reach the point of cylinder lock up, and you can really feel the cylinder locking up, after this point the pull is short, but it gets a bit harder. The 686's pull is smooth and easy all the way through which would help with accuracy shooting, but it makes the gun feel delicate. Where the GP feels like it'll never break or go out of time...it's just a solid feel.
The GP-161..(blued version)...felt every bit as well made and solid, but the bluing seems a little on the light side...(like it should have spent a few more minutes in the vat)..and the cylinder didn't spin quite as freely as the one on the KGP, other than that, they are both damn good, solid feeling, well built guns.
Now here's where it makes the decission difficult between the Ruger and the S&W.....PRICE...!!!
This shop only has the 686 in 4", and they want $579.95....:eek:
The KGP-161 is going for $479.95....the GP-161 is going for $429.95...and they are offering it in a package deal...for $10.00 more you get two boxes of ammo..(1 box of .38 Spl & 1 box of .357 Mag)...a speed loader, a set of ear plugs, a pack of NRA paper targets, and a cleaning kit.
I believe this GP has been sitting around this shop for a while. I know the KGP is brand new as it wasn't there last week....

The shopping continues......;)

[VIPERGTSR01]

i would go for the KGP
i like the way you can feel when the cylinder locks, and you can allways get replacment main and trigger springs to lighten the trigger pull
infact there is a article on that in the currnet american handgunner magazine, i suggest you should read it

[Tony Mig]

Well, if I can generate the neccessary funds needed to finance the KGP-161, that'll definitely be the wheel gun of my choice. I have packs of targets all over my garage, an endless supply of throw away ear plugs from my part time employer, more gun cleaning supplies than I can shake a stick at, and several boxes of .38 Spl ammo I got with my Rossi M68 snubbie...the only thing in that package deal of any intrest to me is the speed loader since I plan to get at least two of them with the gun.

I've got a bunch of stuff selling on E-Bay right now, I've also sold off an old power saw to a friend of mine, and every day I go through all the un-used junk in my garage, and find more stuff I can sell off. Now if I can only keep my wife and kids out of my wallet, I'll be able to buy this new wheel gun of my dreams....:rolleyes:

Then I'll need more money to outfit it with a nice tan leather Bianchi Cyclone 111 holster, with a matching belt and double speed loader pouch......gotta have all the right accessories...;)

[Marlin]

We saw a very nice Colt in .380 at the show in Jackson. It fit SoMo's small hand perfectly. Calibre's too small, though. She's still looking.

The Taurus Millennium 9 or 40 fits well, too, but she wasn't happy with all the comments she found about the trigger. That sorta puts her back on square one trying to find a good fit for her very dainty and lovely hand!

[45Smashemflat]

Marlin, has she looked at any of the little Kahr's? Nice small concealable frames and very good press - the .40 I shot was pretty sweet.

[stash247]

The Kahr line is a really neat one- I was lucky enough to get a very early MK9, with a wonderful trigger; I suspect it was a Shot Show sample. Most of their triggers are just OK.
Problem you need to consider, though, is not the trigger, but the recoil spring. Since, as the parts get smaller, their mass is reduced, there must be an attendant increase in spring force to keep the breech closed til the bullet is down the barrel.
The Kahr, especially the little ones, have a pretty stout spring; more effort is required on the Kahr than on my hardball 1911.
The cute little pistol becomes no more than a blunt object, if So Mo can't cock it and run immediate action drills, particularly since a "second strike" is not possible on them.
Have you considered a Walther PP, PPK, or PPKS?
Not quite the medicine (9MM+P+) of the Kahr, but an American PPKS in stainless (.380) would be thinner, lighter, easier to rack the slide, and DOES have second strike capability, at a price point, new or used at or below what you see on the Kahr- around here, a clean, unmolested example goes for under $400.
One other thing about the Walther- be sure it will bust a cap reliably, from a hammer down, double action first shot! The TPH, their really little .22/.25 model, will often fail to do this, tho when you manually cock the hammer, it runs fine. Not the time I would care to have a problem!

[45Smashemflat]

Good points! If .380's OK, what about a SIG 230? Isn't NAA making a 380 now? There Seecamp knock off is really cute in .32 - just too small for my taste.

(Keep in mind, I carried a M1 Derringer in .45ACP as a "small gun." Talk about a knucklebuster! Finally switched to the Smith when I got some better cash flow.)

[sig_230]

Love the 230 with the alloy frame. It is scary accurate. If you can point your finger at something you'll hit it with the 230. And the alloy version is light enough to carry in a pocket, and even easier to carry than my Detective Special.

http://www.fototime.com/610811DC944F240/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/B15AE6B067F039C/standard.jpg

[mo jenkins]

Get the 686! Then get a Model 27..... And get a Security-six while your at it! That's what I did... I sold my Python and I don't regret it one BIT!!! The 686 cost me about $325 in V.G.+ cond. the Model 27 cost me $250 in almost unfired cond. The Security-Six cost me $235 in like new condition. Take your time and find the GREAT bargains that are out there on wheel-guns for those who have some patience....
Just my .02............................

[45Smashemflat]

That's a pretty SIG...

I had a 220 for years - old enough for West German marks and a front sight without a dovetail. Should've never sold it - that scary accurate comment was dead on.