Justice Roy Moore Fired

[Zigzag2]

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (Nov. 13) -- Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was removed from office Thursday for refusing to obey a federal court order to move his Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the state courthouse.

The state Court of the Judiciary unanimously imposed the harshest penalty possible after a one-day trial in which Moore said his refusal was a moral and lawful acknowledgment of God. Prosecutors said Moore's defiance, left unchecked, would harm the judicial system.

Moore, a champion of religious conservatives, had been suspended since August but was allowed to collect his $170,000 annual salary. He was halfway through his six-year term.

Speaking immediately after the decision, a defiant Moore told supporters he had only acknowledged God as is done in other official procedures and documents.

''I have absolutely no regrets. I have done what I was sworn to do,'' he said, drawing applause.

''It's about whether or not you can acknowledge God as a source of our law and our liberty. That's all I've done. I've been found guilty,'' he said.

Moore said he had consulted with his attorneys and with political and religious leaders and would make an announcement next week which he said ''could alter the course of this country.'' He did not elaborate. He could appeal to the Alabama Supreme Court.

Under Thursday's decision, the governor will appoint someone to serve the rest of Moore's term, which expires in 2006.

Presiding Judge William Thompson said the nine-member court had no choice in its decision after Moore willfully and publicly ignored the federal court order. ''The chief justice placed himself above the law,'' Thompson said.

A federal judge had ruled the monument was an unconstitutional promotion of religion by the government. A federal appeals court upheld the ruling, and the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear Moore's appeal. The monument eventually was rolled to a storage room on instructions from the eight associate justices.

The Judicial Inquiry Commission filed the complaint about Moore's defiance with the Court of the Judiciary, an ad hoc panel of judges, lawyers and others appointed variously by judges, legal leaders and the governor and lieutenant governor.




On Thursday Moore said he had no animosity toward the court. But, he said, unless the states stand up, ''public acknowledgment of God will be taken from us. In God we trust will be taken from our money and one nation under God from our pledge.''

Greg Sealy, head of the Sitting at His Feet Fellowship in Montgomery, an inner-city mission, said it was the ''darkest day'' he has seen in America since he moved to the United States from Barbados 23 years ago.

''They stole my vote. The judiciary stole my vote. I voted for Roy Moore,'' he said.

The prosecutor, Attorney General Bill Pryor, on Wednesday termed Moore's defiance ''utterly unrepentant behavior'' that warranted removal from office.



The chief justice testified he was fulfilling his duties and promises to voters when he refused to follow the court order.
Moore, 56, testified that he followed his conscience and did nothing to violate judicial ethics.

''To acknowledge God cannot be a violation of the Canons of Ethics. Without God there can be no ethics,'' Moore testified.

He had also reiterated his stance that, given another chance to fulfill the court order, he again would refuse to do so. When one panelist, Circuit Judge J. Scott Vowell of Birmingham, asked Moore what he would do with the monument if he were returned to office, the chief justice said he had not decided, but added: ''I certainly wouldn't leave it in a closet, shrouded from the public.''

In closing arguments, Assistant Attorney General John Gibbs said Moore's public refusal to obey a court order ''undercuts the entire workings of the judicial system.''

''What message does that send to the public, to other litigants? The message it sends is: If you don't like a court order, you don't have to follow it,'' he said.

It was as a circuit court judge in Gadsden in the 1990s that Moore became known as the ''Ten Commandments Judge,'' after he was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union for opening court sessions with prayer and for displaying a hand carved Ten Commandments display behind his bench.

He said Wednesday that when he ran for chief justice in 2000, his entire campaign was based on ''restoring the moral foundation of law.'' He added that it took him eight months to personally design the monument, which he helped move into the judicial building in the middle of the night on July 31, 2001.

Jones asked Moore why he didn't just go ahead and move the monument as Thompson ordered.

''It would have violated my conscience, violated my oath of office and violated every rule of law I had sworn to uphold,'' Moore said.

[Zigzag2]

it's a sad day folks... :(

[Marlin]

I wouldn't say, "Fired!", Rick.

Technically, the people hired Roy when they elected him; it would take the people to fire him.....

[Zigzag2]

That was AOL's heading Marlin, along with,

"Thou Shalt Not Keep Your Job" ...

Go figure! :mad:

[1952Sniper]

It is really scary to me, the way people in this country are turning against Christianity. I never in my wildest dreams thought that it would be so dangerous to be an outspoken Christian. I remember my mother (an ordained Methodist minister) reading me stories when I was a child from Revelations, about how in the end days Christians would be persecuted. But I figured they were just stories. Little did I know...

I heard on the radio this morning that the schools are allowed to put up a Jewish Menorah in the school, as well as Muslim religious holiday decorations. But Christians are not allowed to put up a nativity scene display.

Are we at the beginning of the end? Are we seeing the signs of the true holocaust? With the way this world is going, I'm starting to think so. Right now, it's very unpopular to be a Christian in certain places. And we're seeing the opening salvos of legal actions against people for promoting Christianity. It won't be much longer until we're being persecuted in full force.

[keppler]

What ever happened to " By the people, for the people" ?

[Marlin]

Roy never minced any words. The fight was NOT specifically the Ten Commandments, but, rather, Constitutional law and States Rights, the basic right granted by the Constitution for the states to handle EVERYTHING not specifically delegated to the Federal folks.

This is only further sign that the Constitution of the United States is under constant attack, and, for the time being, it appears successful on the part of those who would destroy us. This is the very point we have been trying to make on the Forum about the importance of our being active and getting into the fight to save the Republic.

[Hydra Shok]

Roy Moore wasn't "fired" for not removing the Commandments, but rather for disobeying a court order to remove the monument. When he was ordered to remove it, he more or less said....Naaaa, I don't like that, I'm not going to do it. If Moore ordered someone in his coutroom to say go to counceling, and that person said he wasn't going to go, that person could be held in contempt of court and possibly face jail time. So if a judge is held in contempt of court for not following a ruling, is this judge above the law? Regardless of what he was standing up for, I think he went about it the wrong way. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying the Ten Commandments can't or shouldn't be displayed, but the law is the law and Roy Moore broke the law so he should face the concequences.

[SouthernMoss]

The point Judge Moore was trying to make was that the court didn't have the authority to tell him to remove the monument. He didn't break the law; the court broke the law by stepping beyond their authority and making a ruling that they had no right to make.

[1952Sniper]

Right, SM. Roy Moore didn't break a law. He decided to ignore an order by the court which overstepped its bounds. There is no basis in law for them to tell him to remove that display, and even less for them to remove him from office over it.

This is a clear case of judges thinking they can make up the law as they go along, and force others to abide by it.

[Zigzag2]

If it were all that simple, there would not be a problem in the 1st place.

Fired?, call it what you like but, Judge Roy is without a job and factors are wanting him disbarred.

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?
He disobeyed the courts ruling, and the outcome of it was/is no different than for anyone else.

Now the court stands accoutable...

I hope and pray, he's victourios if/when he appeals.

[1952Sniper]

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?
He disobeyed the courts ruling, and the outcome of it was/is no different than for anyone else.
Since when is a random court ruling equal to law?

If a judge decides that it's illegal to wear pants, are they going to arrest me for it?

A judge's decision has to be based on current written law. They can't just make up the law as they go along.

[Zigzag2]

IMO, Roy did break the law... what law?

it's about accountability, will the means justify the end?

This is what I'm waiting with baited breath to see...

and yep, if you are told by a court of law not to wear pants, and do, you too may find yourself locked-up. Or they may give you an option, something other than pants, where if you agree to the option and then wear pants... opppssss locked-up again. hehehe :D

in other words, bureaucracy!

[frosty]

I liked what SoMo said.

In this country there are countless hundreds of thousands of individuals who are not Christian. They have come to this country to have the freedom to follow their religion as they please with out the Govt. stepping on their beliefs. They like being in a country that will uphold the law even if it upsets people. The checks and balances system is at work here. I like to see it working for all of us to keep the playing field even. If one form of belief gains the upper hand then the rest must push harder.

Fairness is the order of the day...........our country is made up of all nations and peoples.......respect one another and peace will be kept.

[Hydra Shok]

If Roy Moore had just taken the monument down and gone about it another way he would still be employed and this wouldn't have gotten to the point it has now. I applaud the man for standing up for what he believes in, but when you get a court order to do something and you refuse to do so....well then you suffer the consequences I reckon. He could have gone about his appeals a more "legal" ( for lack of a better word ) way. By the way, the taxpaying Alabamians, including myself, are now having to pay for his legal costs :mad: . If he wants to fight it, let him pay for it.

[djohns6]

Did anyone see the press conference after he left the courtroom ?
He made me proud to be one of his supporters .

[Marlin]

I think that most are missing the point or the main issue involved in the argument by the Attorney General and in the decision by the Judicial Inquiry.

Justice Moore did not suffer his fate because of the Ten Commandments nor did he suffer the fate due to the unconstitutional basis for his taking issue in the first place. Further, the Judicial Inquiry did not consider in any way, shape or fashion the matter of the constitutionality of the issue, state's rights or otherwise, or whether there was a separation of church and state. The sole issue was whether or not there was a violation of the Canons of Judicial Ethics.

When Justice Moore chose to defy the order of a higher court, being that of the Supreme Court of the United States who, by its not accepting certiorari, affirmed the lower court ruling, it was a flagrant violation of the Canons of Judicial Ethics. That was the sole issue and is why the decision was unanimous. I am familiar or acquainted with several who served on that court of inquiry and know that many were in sympathy with Justice Moore insofar as the constitutional issue on either separation or states rights is concerned. However, each was disturbed by the flagrant violation of the ethical standards required of any judge or justice in the State of Alabama. Their decision was on that issue and that alone.

Those of you who know me or have followed my thoughts on this Forum for many months know that my interpretation of the Constitutional issues are identical with those of Justice Moore. That does not change the facts as determined by the Judicial Inquiry Commission or Court, however. Each of you should also know by now where my Christian loyalties lie - - -

- - - - - - s q u a r e l y in the identical place as my friend and colleague, Roy, and his great supporter, Jim Kennedy of the Coral Ridge Ministeries!

[stash247]

God bless Roy Moore!
Got a hundred dollar bill? How 'bout a five, or a single? Then, look on a dime, or a penny. IN GOD WE TRUST.
Ain't this the same dude?
You can bray like a jackass 'til the cows come home, but the man did not do anything wrong.
I'm all for the separation of church and state, but definitely NOT for the abolishment of one, at the expense of the other.
If you don't like God, perhaps a move to a rice eating country is in order; of course, if you don't like rice, it would be nice if you like really warm weather, like the middle east.
This country was founded on a concept of tolerance, not compliance, and consequently, is very diverse.
If one assumes the IQ of a bug existed in the voters who elected Judge Moore, then the courts have effectively negated the electoral process.
Even if I don't agree, entirely, with his politics, (I just happen to agree, entirely!) still, those who live and work where he does, do.
A classic example of your Government, Here to Serve You, Like it or Not.
In my humble opinion, it's total Bullshit. Let Alabama run Alabama, since D.C. has already more problems than it can manage.

[sig_230]

Thank God they threw him out. Shoulda thrown him in jail.

[Evilahole]

I still have to sit back and chuckle at comments these zelots use to justify their position:
I'm all for the separation of church and state, but definitely NOT for the abolishment of one, at the expense of the other

I have not heard a single account of a church being closed down nor of a single person being jailed or beaten for his faith nor of any religion being banned. I have heard of no christians being fed to lions for quite a long time.

If you don't like God, perhaps a move to a rice eating country is in order; of course, if you don't like rice, it would be nice if you like really warm weather, like the middle east.



This country was founded on a concept of tolerance, not compliance, and consequently, is very diverse.

HAHAHA!!! Typical contradictory rambling...in one breath shouts "get out of my country if you don't believe the way I do" and in the very next breath describe how this country was founded on a concept of "tolerance". If this country was any more tolerant I might actually be able to walk around and be accepted for being an athiestic white male who has never owned a slave instead of being labeled as a heathen and a white devil.

And I still can't get an answer to a hypothetical question I've put forth to every zelot who stands on his soap box over this ruling:
If I were a Satanist would YOU be willing to let me post the "eleven satanic rules of the earth" on "your" courthouse wall?
Why not? As long as we're putting religious dogma on the walls of government buildings, who are you to say that your ways are any more relevant than anyone elses?
And don't try that tired argument of "our country was founded on the 10 commandments". Only 2 "commandments" are actually law, so by my calculations that's only 20%. How can our entire country be founded on 20% of a doctrine and we decided to ignore the other 80%?
Is it not enough that you can visit your church any day you please? Or do you believe that you have the right to use government to force others to believe as you?

[stash247]

No contradiction, as I can see. If you don't like God, perhaps a Bhuddist, Taoist, or Moslem environment would be more inviting;
the deep south is a strong Traditional Christian area.
As a resident there, you would certainly be within your rights to seek posting of the 11 satanist whatevers, in a school, the courthouse,or where ever else. Community support may, however, be somewhat lacking.
In Roy Moore's case, the community almost unanimously supported him and the sculpture; it is no business of the Federal government. They have enough problems in DC to last a lifetime, without any meddling in states' rights.
That Moore was crosswise with the canon of judicial ethics seems anti-climactic; that issue is a fight about how, when, where to argue; The sculpture and it's propriety is the fundamental cause. If we taught more of the Ten Commandments, and less debate in our schools and homes, we'd need many less courthouses.
Even as an athiest, EvilA, you must agree that the commandments only outline rules common to nearly all cultures, rules that are about WHAT's RIGHT, sot what' LEAGAL.
The Second World War was legal, according to the courts of Germany, but was it right?

[Evilahole]

Perhaps you watch too much ABC or CNN news, but we do not live in a Democracy where the "overwhelming support" sets the rules. We live in a Democratic Republic and are suppose to be a country run by the rule of law.
As far as living in the south, I know about religion here...I was raised as a southern baptist and I know all to well the furry displayed if you DARE to question the "word of god".
You do not have the right to demand the teaching of creationalism in school any more than I have the right to demand the teaching of darwinism in sunday school.
You do not have the right to force your religion into government any more than I have the right to use government to banish religion.
Government run by religious law is a theocracy, much like that warm weather "godless" region called the middle east that you refered to.

[Shizamus]

The American Inquisition Has Begun
By Chuck Baldwin
November 15, 2003


I was in attendance at Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore's trial in
Montgomery this past Wednesday and Thursday. "Trial" is not
really the proper word, however. A better word is "inquisition."

There was never a doubt that the "judges" had made up their minds
to remove Chief Justice Moore from the bench before the
proceedings ever began. They sat like wooden Indians throughout
the trial, taking few notes and, with only one exception, making no
comments, and asking no questions.

Furthermore, Moore's attorneys had some 20 pieces of evidentiary
material that they could have presented. This was denied. There
were also several credible witnesses, including former Alabama
Governor Fob James, that could have been called to testify on
Moore's behalf. This was also denied.

The trial took upon itself a distinctive tone of inquisition when
Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor questioned Chief Justice
Moore. Here is an exchange between Pryor and Moore taken from
the official transcript of the trial:

Pryor: Mr. Chief Justice? And your understanding is that the
Federal court ordered that you could not acknowledge God; isn't
that right?

Moore: Yes.

Pryor: And if you resume your duties as Chief Justice after this
proceeding, you will continue to acknowledge God as you have
testified that you would today---

Moore: That's right.

Pryor: ---no matter what any other official says?

Moore: Absolutely. (Chief Justice Moore then elaborated.)

Pryor: The only point I am trying to clarify, Mr. Chief Justice, is
not why, but only that, in fact, if you do resume your duties as
Chief Justice, you will continue to do that [acknowledge God]
without regard to what any other official says; isn't that right?

Moore: (He responds by listing numerous examples of the public
acknowledgement of God, and concluded answering the question.)
I think you must.

Does any reader of this exchange not see what Bill Pryor was
demanding? He was demanding that Chief Justice Roy Moore not
acknowledge God! Pryor did not even refer to the Ten
Commandments. He repeatedly asked Moore if he would continue
to acknowledge God. To acknowledge God was deemed an
impermissible activity and for this Roy Moore was removed as
Alabama Chief Justice.

Watching Bill Pryor examine Roy Moore in such a fashion
reminded me of the movie "Luther." It was shockingly similar to
the moment when the great reformer stood in front of the Roman
council and heard the inquisitor shout, "Will you recant? Will you
recant? Will you recant?"

It is more than interesting that Bill Pryor asked Chief Justice
Moore three times whether he would continue to acknowledge
God, because Satan asked the Lord Jesus three times to fall down
and worship him, and Simon Peter denied Christ three times. There
does seem to be a pattern!

The point that all Americans must understand is that Chief Justice
Roy Moore was removed from the bench, not for committing any
crime, not for participating in unethical conduct, and not even for
posting the Ten Commandments in the Alabama Judicial Building.
He was removed from office for acknowledging God!

Americans must understand that people such as judge Myron
Thompson and Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor actually
believe that the public acknowledgement of God is illegal activity.
Even more dangerous, they believe that a federal judge's order, not
the U.S. Constitution, is the supreme law of the land. Pryor said as
much during the trial.

There is yet another similarity of Roy Moore's trial to a Dark
Ages-style inquisition. Not only was he commanded to recant his
public acknowledgment of God, the trial itself was conducted out
of public view. No television cameras or recording devices were
allowed. Obviously, the inquisitors did not want the American
people to see and hear for themselves what took place inside the
Alabama Judicial Building on that day.

However, reminiscent of Dark Ages-style punishment, while the
trial took place in obscurity, TV cameras were allowed in the
courtroom the next day when the verdict to remove Moore from
the bench was announced, so all America could witness the
"hanging."

The removal of Chief Justice Roy Moore as Alabama Supreme
Court Chief Justice is a travesty of justice, a reproach upon our
national honor, and an insult to the voters of Alabama! It is also
painfully obvious that since the American inquisition has begun, it
is now time for an American reformation!

The American reformation should begin with the voters of
Alabama electing Roy Moore to the highest office of that state and
by the American people electing men and women to Congress who
will immediately put a stop to these black-robed inquisitors!

Let the reformation begin!

© Chuck Baldwin

[Marlin]

I am awaiting with baited breath the announcement Roy says he will make at a news conference this week. I suspect that we have just begun to hear from and of him and that he will be a large part of the future in Alabama and in this great republic of ours.

[Evilahole]

I think your right Marlin...I can see the country's first red-neck theocracy state coming soon.
From a state that has made sex toys illegal...it's not enough that they've invaded their citizen's bed rooms...now they want to envade their religious beliefs too.
Won't it be a great day to be an American?

[LIKTOSHOOT]

....if I walk in under the cloak of darkness and place a Confederate Flag at the same place, would that be the same?
The fact is, he did this on his own and by his person. They were not there before and we have seen the very same thing in Texas, with different results AND the reason why. Much like the anti`s using children to further gun laws, he uses God to further his---he sickens me.


LTS

[sig_230]

If he could have gotten further by posting a Buddah, or the Koran, or a Totem Pole he would have done that. But he had a ready made group of synchophants that he new could be manipulated by using one down right ugly statue, and so he used those poor suckers for his own gain. Fortunately, he lost because there are still those, even in Alabama, who are not swayed by demigogs.

[Xracer]

No doubt that soon he'll announce that he's running for such-or-so public office (perhaps even Governor), and Alabaman's can have their own Lester Maddox.

Aren't they lucky!

[tuckerd1]

Whether you want to admit it or not, this country was founded by God fearing religious men who intended the country to be governed by God's law.

James Madison wrote: “To preserve the Republic, it is in the hands of the people. We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments.”

Also, these men understood religious tolerance because God gave us a free will to decide whether to accept his word or not.

Patrick Henry stated: “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”

When God is removed completely from government then this country is in its' last days. Man by nature is an immoral creature and will induce his immoral beliefs into his everyday life and that of all others as long as there is no belief in a higher, all powerful being to believe in and to obey. We receive our moral beliefs from our belief in God and his law The Ten Commandments.

John Adams wrote: “The Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other”. In a Christian nation, the people make the laws, but the Church makes the people. When the Church fails to bring the necessary moral influence, the “letter” of the law will not work."

Samuel Adams and the overwhelming majority of America’s Founders were guided by a deep faith in Divine Providence, and it was their understanding of Biblical truth and justice that shaped the development of their concepts regarding the proper structure and function of civil government. This is America’s true heritage, and God’s blessing to our nation and our people, if we choose to keep it.

In 1952, Justice William O. Douglas wrote for the Supreme Court “we find no constitutional requirement…for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weight against efforts to widen the effective scope of religious influence”.

In 1984, the Supreme Court surprisingly stated in Lynch v. Donnelly: “The Constitution does not require complete separation of church and state; it affirmatively mandates accommodation, not mere tolerance, of all religions, and forbids hostility toward any. Anything less would require the ‘callous indifference’ we have said was never intended by the Establishment Clause. Indeed, we have observed such hostility would bring us into war with our national tradition as embodied in the First Amendment’s guarantee of the free exercise of religion.”

Our founding fathers believed we should be tolerate to other religoius beliefs. But, they did not intend for us to throw God out of our daily lives and our government in order that others may feel comfortable being here.

You are free to belive what you want, but this government was established using God's word. And it should be governed using God's word.

[Marlin]

A-MEN, Tuck.

Thanks for those refreshing words!

[LIKTOSHOOT]

Great summary tuck, but has nothing to do with him OR what he did.



LTS

[tuckerd1]

LTS, My post was intended for others that are off topic as well, not to defend Judge Moore.

But, as far as Judge Moore goes, I hope I have the fortitude to stand up for what I think is right when the time comes. Whether it be religion or when the G-man comes to take my guns or ....

You name the topic. Because if we keep going the route we are going, it is only a matter of when....

[tuckerd1]

BTW ALL. Are you going to obey the law when they come after your guns. If not, why not and why are you any different from Judge Moore? If so, why so and do you believe that just because someone says it is law it is a correct law? Once you let them (the guns) go they are gone forever.

[Evilahole]

You are free to belive what you want, but this government was established using God's word. And it should be governed using God's word.

Sounds a hell of a lot like the zelots from the middle east who, like you yearn for, live under tolatarian/theocractic society.

These obvious superior overtones are the exact reason why I will continue to view many (not all) christians as the American Taliban.
Just as much a danger to this country as the booger eating, bed wetting, liberal communists on the left.

No big deal...I always wanted to have a fight on 2 fronts.

[tuckerd1]

Evilahole, you are free to try to rewrite history like your other liberal associates are doing in our school history books today. Their reasoning: History does not fit my agenda so we will change it.

[1952Sniper]

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Evilahole, is that one of the satanic rules of the earth that you mentioned? If so, then does your display of it in your signature somehow mean that you follow these satanic rules? Just curious, as it would explain a lot of your hatefulness toward Christianity.

And by the way, it's spelled "zealot", not "zelot".

[Marlin]

BTW ALL. Are you going to obey the law when they come after your guns. If not, why not and why are you any different from Judge Moore? If so, why so and do you believe that just because someone says it is law it is a correct law? Once you let them (the guns) go they are gone forever.

Great comment, Tuck.

In this instance we would be NO different than Roy. Also, it is an established fact by repetitive history that once freedoms are gone, they are gone forever, which would includ the RKBA as quarenteed by the 2nd Amendment. A careful study of the discussions at the time of the development of the Bill of Rights would convince any person with an open and inguiring mind of the exact intent of the 2nd Amendment - An individual right.

In fact, if one goes back to a thorough study of the Revolution and events leading up to Lexington and Concord, the issue was that the British were set upon to disarm the colonials so that they would not be capable of opposing the King.

Again, this is why each of us MUST speak out and continuously keep before all whom we know and can contact the truth of our great republic and not back down one iota. I have been a constitutionalist for my entire life and have become more so with each year as I have seen the gradual erosion of our freedoms in all quarters. We must never back away until the country is back on the path cut by the Founding Fathers.

[Evilahole]

I guess that's to be expected...left wing liberals love to call me a republican nazi and the American Taliban loves to call me a liberal.
I have a question for you...would murder be ok with you if it weren't in your bible?
In other words is murder wrong because the bible says so or does the bible say it's wrong because it IS wrong?

BTW sniper...ever think that I may have ill will towards many christians because they have had ill will towards me simply because I didn't believe the way they wanted me to?

Pardon the spelling error...I guess your just superior to me.

ps. I can't really be a satanist now could I? Being a satanist would require that I also be a christian in a manner of speaking.
If I don't believe in a god how could I believe in a satan?
I just put that line in there because that's the way I am and while others tend to gather in heards, I've always been the wolf who likes to jump out and go "boo" when the heard intrudes on my space.

[1952Sniper]

If I don't believe in a god how could I believe in a satan?
Actually, you would be surprised at the number of people who profess not to believe in God, yet they do believe in Satan or other deities.

I have found that there are really very few atheists out there. Most people who claim to be atheists are actually "anti-theists". A real atheist does not believe God or any other spiritual entity. But an anti-theist holds so much hatred in his heart that he takes every opportunity to sabotage the beliefs of others. It goes way beyond merely not believing. With all due respect to you, Evilahole, this is the sense that I get from you.

Many anti-theists do believe in God. They just hate Him.

It has been shown throughout history that when religious beliefs are not taught, morals go away. You asked whether murder would be wrong if my Bible didn't say it. I say to you that if we did not have the Bible or other religious-based moral teachings, that we would be murdering each other left and right. Look back in history and you'll see what I mean.

[Evilahole]

Actually, you would be surprised at the number of people who profess not to believe in God, yet they do believe in Satan or other deities.

No, actually I wouldn't be suprised. In the same vein there are people who profess to be christians who rape alter boys, steal from their followers, kill "non-believers" (see Salam), wore white robes and hoods and murdered blacks and so forth.
I don't hate all christians. I hate christians who try to force their views on me using the government and/or their religion to do their dirty work.
You don't like evolution being taught in schools? Their ARE religious schools tailored to your beliefs, and I don't see churches jumping to teach evolution in thier sunday schools.
You want one individual religious viewpoint hanging in government buildings? I don't think you would like the government either hanging athiest propaganda or other religious doctrines (contrary to your own viewpoints) in your church.
If you really want to live in a theocracy, just go ahead and say it. Allowing government to mandate "the official religion for the USA and the summer olympics" is definitely a step in that direction.

Yes, our founding fathers were christians, but they were much wiser christians than what I see displayed here in some of the posts. That's why they wanted the government OUT of religion...neither mandating an "official" religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
No one has been prevented from hanging the 10 commandments in their churches, homes or cars. No one is being throw in jail for their beliefs. Noone has been prohibited from freely exercising their beliefs. But in the same breath, they (the government) have removed the first step towards a theocracy by not allowing the mandating of a particular religion as the proper one to follow.
And I have looked at history as far back as you care to go. I'm pretty sure that the 10 commandments were written before the crusades, the Spanish Inqusition, Salam witch trials, klansmen, countless wars...on and on and on. Don't see how the 10 commandments, especially "thou shalt not kill", has had much bearing at all whether the "killers" were christians or not.

[LIKTOSHOOT]

This has nothing to do with God OR guns (like guns even fall in this discussion) The fact that "he" brought this monument into the court house on his watch "IS". He thought (though very shallow in thinking) that he could not only, get away with it--but garner support (9-11...). Acting as an agent of the government AND A JUDGE, he brought the TEN COMMANDMENTS into a government building, that these Commandments had never been in before. He did it under the guise of (whatever-well most if they could see------would). He hoped for the easy stand, God-Country.....who could be against that??? He also did it for his own reasons.......(not unknown to any with somewhat shallow thinking........political gain and nothing more). These are the very people who RUIN this country for the rest......Use God, which in this case---has nothing to do with what he did, just like the anti`s use children to make guns evil(heartstring "emotions"). Both sicken me to the core and he being a Judge.........SICKENS ME EVEN MORE-SO, because he not only knew what he did was wrong in the begining, he gathered people for support of his action------using God!!! I hope he goes to Hell, but he won`t go any further---anyway. He is done.....or as we say here........PUT A FORK IN`EM.


LTS

[warpig]

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;


The way I see it is the Judge was only celebrating and reinforcing that we are a nation formed under God, by God fearing people, our legal system is based on the 10 commandments and I don't understand why people cannot see that.


I find it ironic that religion is not allowed in schools, yet the state run prison where my dad works if full of bibles and the prisoners are encoureged to participate in religious activities.

[1952Sniper]

Not only prisons, but almost every branch of government has religious monuments and such. All these anti-theists are jumping up and down claiming that they've saved the world from us evil Christians. But it is a hollow victory.

Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that Congress opens every day with a prayer? Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that we use a Bible to swear people in for court proceedings, or that the President takes his oath on a Bible? Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that the Supreme Court of the United States of America has an image of the 10 Commandments over their heads in their courtroom?

Have any of these examples (which have been so for hundreds of years) ever meant that we have a state religion? Or that Christianity is being forced down your throat? No. The anti-theists need to get a grip and stop screaming that the sky is falling. Roy Moore's monument did no damage to our perceived separation of church and state. The big flurry of attention, however, is a good indicator of the rise of anti-theism in today's world.

Ironically, most people who hate Christianity are strong supporters of the "rights" of Muslims. They love to whine about how poorly we treat Muslims. These usually tend to be the same folks who want "tolerance" for everyone. Where is their tolerance for Christianity?

Evilahole, your argument is pretty typical. You give the most extreme examples of priests sexually abusing altar boys, etc. You know that is not an accurate representation of Christianity. Your portrayal of Christians is just as false as the way the anti-gun nuts like to represent gun owners.

[tuckerd1]

ps. I can't really be a satanist now could I? Being a satanist would require that I also be a christian in a manner of speaking.

Evil, this comment shows how little you know about what a Christian is. You can believe in God and Satan and not be a Christian (i.e. the Jewish faith). There are many others out there in this category. A Christian is one who has professed a faith in Jesus Christ, The Son of God, believing that He came on this Earth and died on the cross for forgiveness of man’s sins and has accepted Him as their Savior. Now, becoming a Christian does not all of a sudden turn you into a perfect person. If you read the Bible you will understand that man by nature is a sinner. He has and he always will sin. But, in becoming a Christian, a man loves Jesus enough to want to try to live his life to the highest degree of Christian principles that a human is capable of.

Also a man cannot believe in Satan and not believe in God. Without God, Satan does not exist. Satan was God’s highest angel and was cast out of Heaven because he thought he was as good as God and rebelled against him.

No, actually I wouldn't be suprised. In the same vein there are people who profess to be christians who rape alter boys, steal from their followers, kill "non-believers" (see Salam), wore white robes and hoods and murdered blacks and so forth.

See response above. Men are sinners. Some profess to be Christians who are not.

I don't hate all christians. I hate christians who try to force their views on me using the government and/or their religion to do their dirty work.

Our founding fathers did not try to use the government to try to force you to become a Christian. And those today that are trying to keep God in government are not trying to force you to become a Christian. The founding fathers and the people of the ‘God in Government’ movement are only trying to show that without a set of moral rules to follow (i.e. The Ten Commandments) then this country is on the road to ruin. And there is plenty of evidence to support this whether people want to admit it or not.

You want one individual religious viewpoint hanging in government buildings? I don't think you would like the government either hanging athiest propaganda or other religious doctrines (contrary to your own viewpoints) in your church.

To the founding fathers, God and his influence upon our daily lives is not a religion. He is the Almighty, the one and only God. And they believed He was the influence necessary to keep this country on the right path to moral and fair treatment of others. Now if you believe they were flawed in their thinking here, then you are opening up Pandora’s Box that they were flawed in other areas of The Constitution and The Bill of Rights and these documents are living documents that will be changed as man’s attitudes and beliefs change. And whose beliefs and attitudes will that be.

If you really want to live in a theocracy, just go ahead and say it. Allowing government to mandate "the official religion for the USA and the summer olympics" is definitely a step in that direction.

Reread my original post (11-17-2003, 08:53 AM) on this thread.

Yes, our founding fathers were christians, but they were much wiser christians than what I see displayed here in some of the posts. That's why they wanted the government OUT of religion...neither mandating an "official" religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Read what these men really said. Yes, they did want to keep the government from having any control over what religion a man believed in. But, they still wanted this government ran using God’s principles and laws as the nation’s laws. If the Ten Commandments were to be used, there would be no need for any other laws.

No one has been prevented from hanging the 10 commandments in their churches, homes or cars. No one is being throw in jail for their beliefs. Noone has been prohibited from freely exercising their beliefs.

Allowing the teaching of Islam and Satanic rituals in public schools and not allowing Christians to pray in schools or wear clothes or jewelry with Christian themes is not discrimination and denial of freely exercising their beliefs. You need to get your head out of the sand and get out in the world.

[warpig]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands:
One nation under GOD, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

[Marlin]

Great, Tuck.

I couldn't have said it any better.

[FN_Project90]

why in the court system can't the monument be displayed if we swear on the Bible. I find that to be the lamest issue here. If we swear on it, then by golly it should by all means be withen reasonable to have the foundation of said book on a court's premissis...
thats what I find stupid

[FN_Project90]

and evil I like how you are accusing all of us of basically being terrorists.
no more will I look at this thread, just not worth it.

[Zigzag2]

How about everyone stop wielding their Political and/or Religious sword, and simply agree to disagee? :(

[Shizamus]

Bill Pryor's Shocking Comments During Roy Moore's "Trial"
By Chuck Baldwin
November 18, 2003


Following up on my last column, it is extremely important that
every American citizen read the exchange between Alabama
Attorney General Bill Pryor and Alabama Supreme Court Chief
Justice Roy Moore during Moore's trial. Since The Court of the
Judiciary did not allow television cameras or recording devices in
the courtroom, it is up to people like me to get the word out to the
American people as to what Pryor said. The examination of Chief
Justice Moore by Bill Pryor is shocking, to say the least. Here is a
verbatim exchange between the two men taken from the official
court transcript:

Pryor: Mr. Chief Justice? And your understanding is that the
Federal court ordered that you could not acknowledge God; isn't
that right?

Moore: Yes.

Pryor: And if you resume your duties as Chief Justice after this
proceeding, you will continue to acknowledge God as you have
testified that you would today ---

Moore: That's right.

Pryor: ---no matter what any other official says?

Moore: Absolutely. Without --- let me clarify that. Without an
acknowledgment of God, I cannot do my duties. I must
acknowledge God. It says so in the Constitution of Alabama. It
says so in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
It says so in everything I have read. So ---

Pryor: The only point I am trying to clarify, Mr. Chief Justice, is
not why, but only that, in fact, if you do resume your duties as
Chief Justice, you will continue to do that without regard to what
any other official says; isn't that right?

Moore: Well, I'll do the same thing this Court did with starting of
prayer; that's an acknowledgement of God. Now, we did the same
say thing that justices do when they place their hand on the Bible
and say, "So help me God." It's an acknowledgement of God. The
Alabama Supreme Court opens with, "God save the State and this
Honorable Court." It's an acknowledgement of God. In my
opinions, which I have written many opinions, acknowledging God
is the source --- a moral source of our law. I think you must.

Does everyone understand what Bill Pryor was saying? He was
saying that in order for Chief Justice Moore to resume his duties,
he must not acknowledge God. The posting of the Ten
Commandments did not even come up. Roy Moore's "crime" was
acknowledging God. For this, he was removed from the bench.

To require that a public official not acknowledge God not only
violates the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but also
Article Six of the Constitution that says, ".no religious test shall
ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust
under the United States." To require Chief Justice Moore to not
acknowledge God certainly violates this constitutional obligation!

Therefore, federal judge Myron Thompson and Alabama Attorney
General Bill Pryor have plainly and deliberately violated Roy
Moore's constitutional rights under the First Amendment and
Article Six of the U.S. Constitution. For doing so, they should be
immediately removed from office, and Bill Pryor should be denied
appointment to the federal judiciary!

I understand that Ten Commandments rallies will be held at state
capitols around the country this Saturday, November 22, and that
petitions to Congress to bring the federal judiciary into account
will be circulated. I have been invited to speak at the rally in
Tallahassee, Florida. I invite you to meet me there! Furthermore, I
urge my readers to attend rallies in their respective states.

Bill Pryor, Myron Thompson and the federal judiciary are out-of-
control! They must be reigned in now! Congress has the authority
to limit and regulate the jurisdiction of the federal courts. It must
do so immediately. However, moving Congress to action is our job
--- yours and mine. We can make a difference, but we must act
now!

© Chuck Baldwin

[tuckerd1]

Ziggy, Because it needs to be said!!!

What did you imagine you would get when you started this thread?? :rolleyes:

Don

[1952Sniper]

Shizamus, that was a good article. I'm glad you posted that.

Rick, I don't see any sword wielding. We're just discussing the issue here.

[Zigzag2]

No need in explaining.

F**king go for it!

[FN_Project90]

hahaha good stuff ziggy

[Evilahole]

Hmmm...seems I've lemon-juiced a few nerves. Good.

Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that Congress opens every day with a prayer? Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that we use a Bible to swear people in for court proceedings, or that the President takes his oath on a Bible? Why are they not screaming bloody murder over the fact that the Supreme Court of the United States of America has an image of the 10 Commandments over their heads in their courtroom?
Simple...because I don't HAVE to visit any of those places. I hope they do place the commandments in my courthouse. I'll have a valid reason to refuse to report for jury duity. And by the way...they do not use a bible to swear people in for court procedings anymore... at least not the last time I went for jury duity in 2000.
Evilahole, your argument is pretty typical. You give the most extreme examples of priests sexually abusing altar boys, etc. You know that is not an accurate representation of Christianity.
Look to your own back yard...I didn't force any of the mentioned events to happen. I presented those examples to show you how easy it is to corrupt religion and twist it to your own means just like the rag heads did.
If you read the Bible you will understand that man by nature is a sinner.
I have read the bible....in all honesty, probably more times from cover to cover than you have. That's one reason I'm an athiest today. It's filled with contradictions.
Allowing the teaching of Islam and Satanic rituals in public schools and not allowing Christians to pray in schools or wear clothes or jewelry with Christian themes is not discrimination and denial of freely exercising their beliefs. You need to get your head out of the sand and get out in the world.
I never said that ANY religion should be allowed in schools. You need to get your head out of your rump and quit placing words in my mouth.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands:
One nation under GOD, indivisible,


Look to see how the original POA was worded. What your trying to prove was added last century.
and evil I like how you are accusing all of us of basically being terrorists.
Show me where I've accused ALL christians of being terrorists. Are you trying to say there are NO christian terrorists. If so you are a lier. I personally know one. Went to school with her and she was one of 4 who who blew up an abortion clinic in Pensacola on christmas day several years ago.

If any of you are pissed off that I came back with fire in my eyes, don't blame me. I saw what was happening and politely bowed out several months ago. One of your own PMed me several times asking why I wasn't posting any longer.
I explained that I wasn't happy with a firearms forum turning into the "500 club" forum.
He knew what I was saying, but wished I would come back. I said no because nothing I could say would change any of your minds and nothing any of you could say would change mine.
I thought it would be left at that...
But no...this person just HAD to PM me back with a heart-warming little story of how an athiest "saw the light" and found religion.
No problem...If my views are not at least respected even if they are not agreed with, then I see no reason why I should show any more respect than I was shown.
If you don't want to get bit, don't kick a rattle snake to see if it's asleep...just let it stay there. It'll move on soon enough.

ps. at least someone was paying attention (by moving the thread). There should have been a seperate catagory for religious topics long ago. Everyone knows how volitile religion can be.

[warpig]

Look to see how the original POA was worded. What your trying to prove was added last century.

I know when it was added. I have read all the versions since the first one, I think it 1822 was the first version without looking it up.

Still says what is says. Just like the money in your pocket says In God We Trust. It is no secret that the founding fathers were christians.


You have not lemon juiced me yet Evil. I find it easy to disagree with people on religion.

[1952Sniper]

If my views are not at least respected even if they are not agreed with, then I see no reason why I should show any more respect than I was shown.
I don't think anyone has shown any disrespect for your beliefs (or lack thereof). We're just havin' a conversation here. I for one am not riled up about anything.

Just because we members will never agree on certain topics doesn't mean that anyone is unwelcome. You're certainly welcome here and we enjoy having you here, provided that we don't get into any major flaming or disrespectful shenanigans. But so far I've only seen one statement that might start approaching the disrespectful. And that is when you said "you need to get your head out of your rump". You can make your point without resorting to that. I know it wasn't directed at me, but the point remains.

This topic is very controversial, and I've had this argument with lots of folks. It's not like we're going to solve it here. But I think it's important to discuss issues like these. Not only can I learn what goes on in the minds of non-believers, but it gives me the opportunity to reflect on the image that Christians are presenting to the world.

Anyway, don't go away mad. :)

[tuckerd1]

Evil,
You have once again over estimated your brilliance in this area. Fact upon fact has been presented here by many and all you can do is offer your opinion again.

God fearing people are tired of sitting around and taking it from a handful of folks that are afforded all the freedoms the US offers (because God fearing men made it that way) and want to throw it back in their faces. We are going to return the US back to where our founding fathers intended it to be.

Thanks for the participation to help get the word out.

[LIKTOSHOOT]

Oh! man do I have some retort left......but you`ll all have to wait wait.
IT`S TUESDAY NIGHT CATFISH--


LTS

[warpig]

Time for a group hug

[stash247]

Just as an observation, Roy Moore has shown more stones, in my way of thinking, than any body since Ollie North.
I don't have to totally agree with his position (although I really do) to say he's the kind of guy I'd soldier in Hell with; no qualification.
If you don't like what he says, or how he says it, give him credit for consistency and BALLS!
Before he ever walked into that hearing, he knew the price, both now, and later. He did what he knew to be right.
If HALF our Congress had HALF his courage and resolve, we wouldn't be troubled with all the day to day issues we presently face.

[Marlin]

A-MEN, Stash.

[warpig]

uh oh Did someone mention Ollie North

So we have politics and religion going here now we can throw the Ollie North scandal/conspiracy into the mix.


At least there has been no mention of abortion.

Whoops shouldn't have said that.

[stash247]

Was that our BIRTH CONTROL POSTER CHILD????

[stash247]

And Evilahole: You really don't have to visit a courthouse, if you follow the rules as closely as you suggest Roy Moore should. Usually, a courthouse is where we get right, after we done wrong.
Had we followed the Ten Commandments, we wouldn't be there.

[FN_Project90]

Nope I know there are Christian "terrorists." Nah Evil I like seeing your opinion. Just the way it seems so heatidly worded. We all know what we like and don't like and our beliefs are all VERY strong to us, be it athiest or otherwise. I do respect your opinion, but often take it the wrong way. You do offer lots of incite in a chip on the shoulder kind of way, that is harsh to hear, but often speaks truth. I think its awesome that we have people here that don't agree and hope it stays that way. I hope we (all of us) can have some threads that are fun and games to change your mind to stick about and some that are serious, but not on such divided issues perhaps.

[Zigzag2]

More to share...

Alabama News

Voter lawsuits claim Alabama justice was illegally removed from office

By BOB JOHNSON
The Associated Press
11/20/2003, 5:06 p.m. CT


MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) -- Federal lawsuits filed by voters Thursday claim an unelected ethics panel didn't have the authority to remove Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore for defying a judge's order in his Ten Commandments case.


The lawsuits filed in Montgomery and Mobile claim that impeachment by the Legislature would have been the only constitutional way to remove an elected chief justice.

"The removal of a duly elected official by a non-elected body is a violation of the fundamental right to vote of all citizens in the state of Alabama," reads the Montgomery lawsuit filed on behalf of five central Alabama residents who said they voted for Moore.

In a response filed late Thursday, Attorney General Bill Pryor asked that the lawsuit be dismissed and said being elected did not give Moore the right to violate the law.

"When an elected official violates the law, his election does not make him unaccountable to the law he is bound to uphold," the attorney general's filing said.

Pryor also said the plaintiffs were entitled to vote for Moore but "did not elect him to a position above the law."

The nine-member Court of the Judiciary, an appointed panel composed of four judges, three lawyers and two private citizens, voted unanimously last week to remove Moore from office for refusing a federal judge's order to move a Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the Alabama Judicial Building.

Attorney Brian Chavez-Ochoa, who represents the plaintiffs in the Montgomery case, said he considers removing an elected official from office in such a manner to be a violation of the federal Voting Rights Act.

But an attorney who sued seeking to remove the 5,300-pound monument from the judicial building said he considers the lawsuit to be frivolous.

"It's incredibly ironic for them to run to federal court after they have claimed the federal courts are the demons who are taking God out of daily life," said Richard Cohen, an attorney who is president of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Cohen said there was "nothing improper" about the amendment to the state Constitution that set up the Court of the Judiciary.

"The same state law that provides for his office also provides for a means for his removal," Cohen said.

The Mobile lawsuit was filed by attorney Jim Zeigler on behalf of Christian talk show host Kelly McGinley of Mobile.

The Mobile and Montgomery lawsuits named the nine members of the Court of the Judiciary as defendants. The Mobile suit named additional defendants, including Attorney General Bill Pryor, who prosecuted Moore, and the Judicial Inquiry Commission that brought charges against him.

The Rev. Patrick Mahoney, head of the Christian Defense Coalition, joined Chavez-Ochoa at a news conference Thursday on the sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse in Montgomery shortly before the lawsuit was filed.

Mahoney said a fairer process for removing an elected official would be impeachment by members of the Legislature, who are elected.

"I can't think of anything about the process that was used here that was just, that was constitutional," Mahoney said.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

[1952Sniper]

Very interesting. I can see both sides of this.

On the one hand, the panel that dismissed Roy Moore had the authority under law to do so. Therefore, in that respect, they were operating under the authority they were granted.

But on the other hand, there is something wrong with the people being able to vote a person into office and then him being removed by a panel of judges that wasn't elected. What's to stop these judges from just removing people that they don't like? Doesn't that negate the power of the peoples' votes?

[tuckerd1]

But on the other hand, there is something wrong with the people being able to vote a person into office and then him being removed by a panel of judges that wasn't elected. What's to stop these judges from just removing people that they don't like? Doesn't that negate the power of the peoples' votes?

Exactly sniper! The panel of judges MAY have had authority to try him, find him guilty and impose a punishment other than removal, but how can they override the people's choice. That should belong to the Legislative branch.

[Marlin]

Interesting Commentary from WorldNetDaily this morning

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


God works best after a crucifixion

November 21, 2003
By Rick Scarborough

On Wednesday, Nov. 12, I attended the trial-inquisition of Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore. I sat directly behind Attorney General William Pryor, whom the president has nominated to serve on the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. From the opening statements of the prosecuting attorney, it was clear that Moore was not going to receive a fair trial and that the attorney general of Alabama was determined to see Moore removed.

The prosecution called no witnesses. Their case was based on the words of Moore himself, as they played two video tapes of televised recordings of Moore speaking. When Moore took the stand, he made no apologies for his remarks, and as the prosecution stressed, was not repentant. What the prosecution and the court refused to acknowledge, was Moore had done nothing for which he should have repented. He broke no laws and he faithfully upheld his oath to the constitutions of Alabama and the United States.

The chief conducted himself with dignity and honor throughout the trial, which lasted a total of less than five hours before the nine appointed members of the Commission of Judicial Inquiry who served as judges for the trial, recessed to consider their verdict. A remarkable moment came when one of Moore's legal team quoted William Pryor defending Moore for removing a plaque containing the Ten Commandments from his Alabama Circuit Courtroom during a rally for him in 1997. At 10 a.m. on Thursday, Nov. 13, 2003, a godly, competent and faithful man who chose to honor God rather than appease man, was removed from the highest judicial office in the state of Alabama by nine people elected by no one and accountable to no one.

I am 53 years old and I have seen a lot of things change in my lifetime, but I never thought I would see the day when a sitting president could break every commandment, including adultery and lying under oath, and remain in office, and a sitting state supreme court justice would be removed for keeping and defending the Ten Commandments. Not only have the citizens of Alabama been deprived of the wisdom and integrity of this godly man on their highest court, their will as expressed by their vote has been denied.

But what Satan meant for evil, God meant for good ... and it will result in good, if the good people of this country will turn away from their selfish agendas long enough to stand with this modern day Daniel, and say, "Enough is enough!" Vision America has been working for weeks to build a coalition of national leaders who would join us in promoting a petition which we have dubbed, "Save the Commandments ... God's Contract With America."

Twenty-seven men and women, who represent millions of Americans through their respective ministries, have agreed to join us. Every ministry will promote the same petition for the next 10 months calling on Congress to restrict the jurisdiction of the federal courts in matters of religious expression. We hope to present millions of signatures to leaders of Congress and the president, demanding that they practice their constitutional responsibility, according to Article III, Section 2, restricting the jurisdiction of the federal courts.

I believe Chief Justice Roy Moore will be used mightily over the next year, to educate and motivate millions of Americans as to the tyranny of these self-appointed arbiters of all truth. Ambassador Alan Keyes is working directly with Vision America as we travel across the country holding rallies to address this issue. Beloved, remember this very important truth: God always does His best work just after a Crucifixion.

© 2003 WorldNetDaily

[Evilahole]

Sorry I haven't been around to play lately, but a couple of murderers have escaped a prison nearby...one's in for shooting and killing an 18 month old in a home invasion.
Been hoping to verify the zeroing of my laser sight on moving targets, but they're probably long gone by now.

[Marlin]

Glad to see you back, evil.

Hope all goes well in your home protection. I've been through such an escape before and its not the most secure feeling.....

[SouthernMoss]

Evil, sorry to hear it's been a stressful time for you. Taking care of family is your main priority right now. We're glad you're back. We look forward to future posts from you. :)

[FN_Project90]

yeah that was crazy. (live north of evil)

[tuckerd1]

??

[Marlin]

Good post, Tuck.

The last time I sat on the bench as a substitute for an ailing Jurist, the oath for each witness went thusly:

"Do you solemnly swear, or affirm, to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

This swearing in of the witness was done with the right hnad on the Holy Bible, too, if it were done individually. Some Jurists prefer in a case with a large number of witnesses to swear in all potential witness en masse, but I always chose to do it individually no matter the number.

[stash247]

Marlin, you must be a lawyer, to sit in for a judge, but I'm gonna overlook that, since you make a lot more common sense than most lawyers, or judges.
Fact is, this is a God fearing country, founded on principles of tolerance, rather than exclusion, where religion, especially, is concerned.
9 guys that nobody can fire passed judgement on 1 guy, whom everybody in Alabama likes, and fired HIM. Already, lawsuits have been filed, as I suggested they might be.
WTF did he do wrong? Stand up? be counted? He's no kin to me, much the loss, for I believe he did what he believed, and that's a heck of a lot more than most do.
I think there were about 8 too few firings, 10 of them wrong, after that hearing in Montgomery.
Idon't know what kinda soldier Moore was/is/could be, but I'd darned sure say of him what I did of Ollie North; I'd soldier in Hell, with him, in a heartbeat. You can count on him. Can all who read this post say as much? Terry

[Zigzag2]

Terry, http://timeout.servercity.com/~sjdsports/upload/images/icons/icon14.gif
I agree with what you are saying.
And we know Judge Moore picked his battle. I hope he prevails in the short run. :)

[Marlin]

Thanks, Stash. I accept your kind words. I have fought the long fight for years for strict constitutional law as envisioned by our forefathers. It appears, now, though, as though satan is having his day in thwarting everything that is right, proper and lawful day by day.

I was in the courtroom daily in one position or another for about thirty years, most of that time on the bench. Roy is a friend and former colleague whom I can attest is a superb constitutional lawyer, Jurist and, most importantly, a fine principled and Christian man. His fight was not the Ten Commandments as the media hyped it to be but one of State's Rights and violation of our rights under the Constitution.

I agree with Ziggy, he picked his fight and he has more than WON, without a doubt at all. He will be vindicated in the end, even if it were to wait until he stands in front of the Lord on the day of accounting.