View Full Version : What is the value of my old Springfield, S/N 13360??
05-07-2006, 12:47 PM
What is the value of my old Springfield, S/N 13360?? .... It is old, big and heavy. There is no caliber marked on the barrell. The inside diameter of the bore measures 1/2". The inside barrel is bright and shiney. There are a few spots but they appear to be rust deposits, not pitting. The left side of the receiver in front of the trap door is marked "13360". The right side of the receiver is marked US Springfield. There is an eagle with the Union Jack on its breast and arrows in its feet in front of the hammer. The date 1863 is on the receiver behind the hammer.There is an "A" on the forward part of the trigger guard. The forward part of the trap door is marked 1870 "US" with a logo and arrows below the logo. The forward clamp holding the barrel to the stock is marked "US". The joint of the handle to the main stock has been repaired. The action is very strong and smooth. The barrel and side portion of the receiver have lost most of the blue. The top part of the receiver and trap door have 90% of original blue.
Should I attempt to clean it up and touch up the handle repair or does that diminish the value to a collector?
05-07-2006, 04:21 PM
I would not venture a guess as to the value, but DO NOT try any repairs or refinishing until you have it appraised!!!
05-07-2006, 05:40 PM
Would have a lot more value if it wasn't a cut rifle.
If the bore measures .500 then I would think it would be 50-70
05-08-2006, 07:21 AM
That's a very interesting firearm......but.....it's not a U.S. Military issue firearm, and it never left the Springfield Armory that way.
Looks like somebody cut down a Trapdoor Springfield rifle or carbine and made a pistol out of it. It might have a bit of value as a curiosity, but it's not a collector's piece.
I agree with 22WRF.....caliber is probably .50-70.
05-08-2006, 08:05 PM
Thanks for the professional insight from the three people who have responded to my request for information!!!
05-08-2006, 10:18 PM
It's a unique piece it'll add to any collection.
05-09-2006, 11:36 AM
It's a unique piece it'll add to any collection.
Well, since this is a cut down rifle, I would tend to bet that BATF&E would have a lot to say about it. I would also tend to bet that the owner might get a paid vacation to the cross bar hotel and a hefty fine. I believe that gun is so highly illegal that I can feel the heat from here! Even though it is black powder. Anyone care to comment?????
05-09-2006, 02:45 PM
Section 5845. Definitions
For the purpose of this chapter -
The term ''firearm'' means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or
barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a
shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less
than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in
length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16
inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as
modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel
or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon,
as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer
(as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term ''firearm'' shall not include
an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or
destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the
Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value,
design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item
and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
The term ''antique firearm'' means any firearm not designed or
redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition
with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including
any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of
ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured
before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed
ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is
no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily
available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
05-09-2006, 09:45 PM
I think it looks good. What I'd like to know is when was it cut down.
05-10-2006, 01:08 AM
Thank you to all who have commented about this unique "blunderbuss" of a weapon. Your comments have been very helpful and have clearly established that this weapon is not a pistol, however at the same time it is clearly not a rifle now. One of the posts cites that its current form could be a ticket to the jailhouse and another establishes that it is not illegal. Several other posts establish that it is not a collectors item yet several say it is interesting. So what really is the value of it? If it has no real value as a collectors piece could it possibly have value as a new category of gun which is just a "conversation" piece? It is way out of the ordinary without its original form and with no provenance. Are there eclectic gun admirers that want things out of the ordinary just because .... well, its a conversation piece? There have been lots of informative posts about this authentic misfit but no one has tried to peg a value for it. Is it a $100 conversation piece, a $1000 conversation piece or is it just a boat anchor waitng to be discarded? Somebody, a long time ago, who knew a lot about guns fashioned this piece into what it is today. The dates on this 'blunderbuss" are from 1863 and 1870. That means it has 143 years of history as a "gun". I bet it would still fire if I could find cartridges for it. Can you imagine having it at the Range and how many people would line up to fire it saying, "hey I want to try that thing once". It has a look that everyone I have shown it to says "WOW" where did you get that? The looks of this piece make a statement of "daring" and "adventure" and it arouses an air of curiosity. It's a 'one of a kind' relic from the great American past.... it deserves a "value" dosen't it? Well in the absence of anyone having a value they can hang on it I will list it on one of the national gun auctions next week with a starting bid of $1.00 and see what the value of it is in the gun world where people buy guns to collect, to shoot, to admire, to invest in and just to look at and talk about. Is there a market for a "conversation piece" gun? .......thanks again for all of your very interesting comments!!!!
05-10-2006, 08:12 AM
I think you need to go back and reread the last paragraph very carefully. Ammunition for the 50-70 is readily available on the market due to the cowboy action shooting boys and girls. Go buy yourself a box and take it out and shoot it. You can also buy brass and cast bullets from MidwayUSA. I just checked and both are on sale!
The reason no one is giving you a price is due to the fact that it is a one of a kind and you should take it to an appraiser to see what it might bring. I for one would have no interest in a weapon of that sort.
Somebody, a long time ago, who knew a lot about guns fashioned this piece into what it is today.
I can't be sure, but the muzzle appears to be in the white while the rest of the gun has a deep patina. If that is the case, I do not think this done long ago. Appears he only needed a saw and a knife. He did not match the wood of the newly formed grip that well either. Good luck!
05-10-2006, 04:18 PM
I appreciate the post fom the last respondent. However 50-70 ammo is not readily available. I called all six gun shops in our immediate 25 mile radius area and no one carries 50-70 cartridges. I thought I might be able to fire the "pistol" without getting into the brass and ball set up. Also his notation about the barrel sparked my curiosity so I removed the barrel from the handle. The underside of the barrel previously covered by the pistol stock is white metal and the receiver is a dark blue. The white barrel portion is also stamped with the identical serial number that is on the receiver. The barrell is also marked with ".32" and the adjacent receiver in an aligned position is also marked ".32". The underneath side of the receiver also has three letters marked on the bottom which are spaced about 3/8" apart. The letters are "V - B - P". In the direct sunlight it can be seen that the grain on the handle is a match to the forward part of the pistol stock. The recess in the lower handle for the trigger guard plate shows no chisel marks, rather it is very smooth and clean, very similar to the wood removal under the breech plate for the hammer. If this was just a "hatchet job" then someone was very meticulate with their hack saw and hatchet capabilities.
05-10-2006, 04:38 PM
I appreciate the post fom the last respondent. However 50-70 ammo is not readily available. I called all six gun shops in our immediate 25 mile radius area and no one carries 50-70 cartridges. I thought I might be able to fire the "pistol" without getting into the brass and ball set up.
Just click on the URL I gave you above.
50/70 Gov't 500 Gr. RNFPL 20 Rounds / Box 100 Rounds / Case 1310 fps $59.73
That is loaded ammo and is considered readily available, as you can order it and have it delivered to your house. In fact, I found multiple mail order places where you can buy it from, but only listed one figuring you had the opportunity to look further for yourself. I know you will not find it in a local gunshop, but you can order it through them. You do not have to reload for it.
The recess in the lower handle for the trigger guard plate shows no chisel marks, rather it is very smooth and clean, very similar to the wood removal under the breech plate for the hammer.
That is because whoever did it used the original stock to the rifle that he cut off!!! The inleting was already there from the original rifle.
In the direct sunlight it can be seen that the grain on the handle is a match to the forward part of the pistol stock.
He probably used the rifle stock and carved himself a handle from the original wood which should match correctly. However, the picture shows a lighter shade of whatever he used to glue both pieces together. Nuff said.
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