View Full Version : Rem. Hollowpoints for MK lll Target shooting
11-20-2008, 06:36 PM
I just purchased a new Ruger MK lll Standard for plinking, varment and target shooting. Unfortunately, I could not afford a used High Standard ( my all time forvorate .22 cal.), or a Ruger MK lll Target Model. I 've cleaned up the factory grease and oiled the new MK lll Standard well, and after 500 rounds with Remington LR hollowpoints, I can now pretty consistently shoot an 1.5" pattern at 15 yards (open sights.) Of the 500 rounds, I've only experienced 8 misfires. My questions to the forum are:
1. what's your experience with hollowpoints re. accuaracy?
2. is their another rimfire shell that you like better than the Remingtons for about the same price, regarding better accuracy than the Remington hollowpoints and the same low percentage of misfires?
After 500 rounds, you've "only" experienced 8 misfires, and that is a "low percentage"? If I had 8 failures to fire out of one 500-round brick, I would never, ever buy that crap again. One and a half percent failures is nowhere near either low or acceptable.
Remington, in my opinion and experience, make three of the four worst 22LR ammo on the market. Worst - Remington Thunderbolt. Then Winchester Wildcat. Then Remington Subsonic. Then Remington Golden Bullets.
They make good guns, but there is no way I will shoot Remington 22s in my guns.
Federal Champion (40 grain lead RN) is, again, in my guns and my experience, extremely accurate and extremely consistent. And I have had, maybe, five failures to fire, in 35 years and over a quarter million rounds.
11-20-2008, 09:00 PM
I agree about the Remington ammo, I've had nothing but trouble this year when I've used it just because it's cheap. I prefer roundnose over hollowpoints for targets too, I'm still trying different brands. Better quality makes all the difference.
I like running federal bulk ammo through my MKIII. I have to agree with the previous posts regarding remington 22lr ammo. Reminton golden has the most failure to fires in any 22 lr ammo I have tried in a 22 pistol. :(
IMHO Winchester xperts out of a ruger MK pistol are also crap.. I've got 2 ruger mk series pistols and they seem to perform best with the federal bulk as a plinking/practice ammunition.
11-21-2008, 08:58 AM
Got a MKII, very thankful I only have one more brick of the Remmington Thunderbolt, crap left. Will never buy it again. I have issues ranging from, shells getting stuck, failure to fire, not to mention how filthy it leaves the gun. I have tried Federals and have not had any problems to date.
11-22-2008, 06:39 PM
When you gentlemen refer to Federal bulk ammo, is this a lead point bullet and is there a specific type or name that goes with "Federal bulk" or should I just ask for standard Federal LR .22 ammo?
As you all have probably noticed, I'm a novice at this. Twenty five years ago, I shot a lot of Federal .22 cal. ammo with a High Standard and it performed very well. Then, I moved from Idaho to Kansas City, MO. and quit shooting altogether.
So, please forgive my ignorance, as well as my misunderstanding of a low percentage of misfires. Thank you for your input and your patience and I will start using the Federal ammo that you have recommended. Can you be a little more specific than Federal bulk though?
The Federal bulk ammo is, I believe, 36 grain hollowpointed plated bullets. It comes in a loose pack, in something similar to an old waxed-cardboard milk carton. Holds 550 rounds. Remington and Winchester also sell these "bulk packs".
The ones I mentioned are the Federal Champions, Federal stock number 510. They are 40 grain round nosed lead bullets, and come in boxes of 50, bricks of 500, or cases of 5000.
The last ones I bought were 1.29 a box, which came to 12.90 for 500, vs. the (at the time) 10.97 for the 550 round bulk pack (which equaled out to one dollar per 50-round box). But I believe the Champions are better ammo, and was glad to pay the additional quarter or so per box.
That's been a few months. Price seems to have gone up a little. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=140995
11-23-2008, 08:45 AM
Thanks Alpo for the quick response. I'll try the Federals and again I'm glad I consulted the forum (a little late, maybe), for the best information regarding .22 ammo for this new gun. Ya' know, hindsight is always 20/20; yesterday, I was at Cabellas in Kansas City, Kansas, and in the used pistol section, I spotted a Ruger MKll, 6" bull-barrel (blue finish); I believe it was the Hunter model for $250 --- in very good to excellent condition; I wanted a six inch barrel when buying my gun, but the gun shop only had the
4.5" MKlll standard and it cost me $279 + tax. When next time comes, I'll be patient and take the trek out to Cabellas or someplace else to purchase exactly what I want and I 'll do the research first.
Oh well, at sixty and figting cancer takes up a lot of thought process, so maybe when and if this "flare-up" resides, I'll make better decisions. Thanks again for all of your generous directions.
I mainly use Remington Yellow Jackets in mine. Very rarely do I have a problem. Maybe one in a hundred or so won't feed right and the bullet gets bent up. And that's usually because I've loaded the thing carelessly or didn't pull the slide-bolt far enough back to load the first round.
12-03-2008, 02:20 AM
I have had a LOT of misfires with Remington ammo. I have 28-100 round boxes of Remington Target on hand and I will not use it in an NRA Pistol Match.
On the other hand, I was the range officer at a 4H .22 rf Pistol Match. Most of the shooters had Ruger Mark II and III pistols. Out of 28 shooters, we had 18 pistols have multiple failures to feed and fire. Most of the ammo was Federal Champions.
I have been an NRA Bullseye Pistol shooter for 36 years and I would not use Federal or Remington .22 rf ammunition in a Match. I would use Winchester T-22. What I normally use is ELEY Sport or Aquila Centurion. Sport costs about $27 per brick and the Centurion about $18 per brick. Believe me the extra expense is worth it.
I have a brick of Remington Target I purchased in 1980. The stuff is accurate, surefire and feeds well in my Mark II Ruger. The same goes for the 20 year old Federal Champion ammo. It is a shame our ammo companies are so interested in the bottom line that they quit making a quality product.
Our club has 4- Ruger Mark III pistols and there have been no failures to fire with Aquila Centurion ammo.
12-03-2008, 06:08 AM
I recently decided to try to find one ammo to feed to my 10+ traget grade 22LR semi-auto pistols that go from the Ruger MK II to a Benelli MP90S and includes a S&W Model 41 (all decent good target pistols, not plinkers).
All such guns are better served by the use of Standard Velocity 22LR ammo. It is easier on the guns and keeps guns like the Hi Std Military grip guns from cracking their frame which they will do if fed High or Hyper Velocity ammo steadily and the recoil spring allowed to be used when totally worn out. Based on recommendations from others I tired CCI Std Vel in all the guns. All fed it perfectly, locked back on the last round if the gun had that feature (and some didn't), were accurate, and the price per round was mid level. I bought a case.
CCI Standard Velocity ammo is good ammo...not the cheapest but one of the most accurate in all my guns.
12-03-2008, 07:16 AM
It is a shame our ammo companies are so interested in the bottom line that they quit making a quality product.
The problem doesn't so much reside with the manufacturer as with the consumer. The mantra of most Americans is a fixation on cheap prices. This is not restricted to Ammo but to most products in general. Hence the success of WalMarts, etc. Most Americans I believe wouldn't know quality if it hit them in the face as they are tooooo distracted by price.
This mentality accounts for the rise of crappy Fast Food (truly an oxymoron) and all of the garbage that comes from China where QC is an after thought at best.
We've created our own "beast".
12-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Hello, I new here. I've been collecting 22 ammo since the late 1950's. I have all kinds of stuff, even the Winchester Expediter. A brick and a half. I have some going out of business that was .25 a box. I find nothing wrong with most older 22 ammo. I will not purchase Fed. lighting or American eagle in the 40 rd. bx. It isn't worth the effort, I find it to cause many unwanted problems.
Please correctly if I'm wrong but I believe the CCI Stinger is a longer shell or bullet & may not work in some 22 firearms.
The stinger is a longer case, with a shorter bullet, so the overall length is the same. Some tight chambers may not accept the round because of the longer case.
I've always been told that a .22 pistol or rifle can be a very finicky gun, and I believe that is true. What works in your buddies gun every time, may not be as great in yours.
Try different ammo and see what your gun does best with. And be aware that there can be quality control issues with anybody's brand of ammo. In spite of what some have said, I've shot bricks of Remington and never had a misfire. My father in law had a brick of Federal one time and couldn't get through a clip without a dud or a jam. The one brand that seems to have the best consistancy for me is CCI.
You have a good pistol. Shoot it often and enjoy it.
10 Spot Terminator
12-04-2008, 09:03 AM
In my Mark I with a standard barrel I proof tested nearly a dozen of the more common and affordable .22 ammos out there staying away from the slower target stuff and I found the Winchester Super-X to beat the others quite signifigantly . Tighter groups, almost no flyers getting maybe one or two max per 50 round box. I thought this to be funny in that having the year before tested close to 2 dozen different ammos in 3 seperate rifles my vote went to CCI in almost anything they made and the best bang for the buck there was the CCI Blaser cannon fodder at about $18.00 per brick and ran cleanly through my guns. Go figure ,,, 10 SPOT
01-29-2009, 04:33 AM
If I could step in...not being a pistol shooter I'm not familiar with the issues they might have with missfires etc...my preference is for the older style rifles...any how...any misfire issues I've encountered with rifles have typically been with the firing pins either worn or rather loose in their action and thus not striking the shell case consistantly...can't really speak on the loading issues other than the tube mag rifles I've had with loading problems have all been from weak old lifting springs in the magazine loader, always seemed to fix the problem.
Target rounds are always solid nose for basic aero dynamic reasons...the simple rule is the center of drag must be behind the center of mass for a body in motion to remain stable...the further apart the two...the more stable it will fly...therefore if you have 2 bullets of the same or close specs/dimensions and weight...and one has its nose hollowed out...its mass will be further rearward and closer to the center of drag (given there is less lead at the front) The center of drag will "tend" to be about the forward point of the bullets max dia, loosely depending on its shape...as a simple "general" rule
01-29-2009, 06:42 AM
The failure to fire (FTF) problems we see in semi-auto guns (both rifles and handguns) is caused by the auto feeding function, mostly. If the bolt fails to fully close because the bullet slowed the bolt in entering the chamber or in the process of being removed from the magazine or from anything that slows the bolt's forward progress down, then the firing pin has to finish the job of seating the bullet fully in the chamber. That takes enrgy from the firing pin, often not leaving enough for setting off the priming compound in the rim of the cartridge (or in the primer in centerfires for that matter). Bolt action guns would never have that problem and a failure to fire in them is almost surely a ammo problem or perhaps the problems of spring power you related.
Most semi-auto rimfire designs are pretty crude compared to center fire guns. Things like loose bolts in the receiver rails, excessive headspace, bolts that can get cocked out of line with the bolt face from excessively strong extractgor springs, and other loose relationships in these inexpensive guns can also cause FTF's.
My point is that while the sources of FTF that you suggested can apply, the most common FTF problems in these inexpensive and crudely made semi-auto rimfires are from the gun's designs and crude manufacturing processes. The Ruger 10/22 is a prime example of these loose specs. The guns work well for the rather mild 22LR but when converted to 17HM2, where the pressures curve is totally different than 22LR, these normally reliable guns become nightmares with split cases and other out of battery firing problems.
I think, in my experience and that of others here, that FTF are most often caused in semi-auto rimfire guns by a failure of total and complete bolt closure. That can be from all the problems I listed and more but total bolt closure is the first place to look when you are having FTF with these guns, including the Ruger MK III originally noted.
That's just my opinion and other's may differ.
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