Guest
03-17-2003, 07:08 PM
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 266
(6/25/01 8:24:19 pm)
| Del All LBJ...the stockade!
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This is a picture of the sumbich that wound my clock on Aug 30, 1968 at approximately 2330 hrs. LBJ...
http://www.petester.com/vnpics/lbj.jpg
Edited by: LarryJK at: 6/25/01 9:25:29 pm
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 454
(6/25/01 11:13:06 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ...the stockade!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Larry, now I remember. Glad I only had to go by it and not in it. - Hope
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 153
(6/26/01 1:19:28 am)
| Del LBJ -- THe Stackade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Post Larry!
This place played a crucial part in the war. It was crucial to the perpetuation of racism in America and to the enforcement of discipline. Right or wrong if we crossed the wrong guy we were sent to Long Binh Junction.
If you failed to fire on civilians or at any time refused an order you were threatened immediately with LBJ. We were told that we would be gang raped by black inmates endlessly if we were sent there. The guys who were sent came back meaner and harder. Blacks or
homer4
Moderator
Posts: 971
(6/26/01 5:14:45 am)
| Del Re: LBJ -- THe Stackade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asswipe command personnel Mike. Yeah, I knew a guy they hauled off to LBJ...good riddance to the piece of ****.
...and two hard boiled eggs.
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 156
(6/27/01 2:03:01 am)
| Del LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oops -- my ISP cut this post in half.
"bloods" were sent to LBJ at the drop of a hat while many white guys were let off with an article 15 or extra duty.
The Army developed a new weapon, it was an M16 with a grenade launcher tube under the barrel. These were later perfected but we had the ones with the defective trigger. When you loaded the tube and closed the breech, it fired a 40 MM grenade instantly. One of the bloods in Delta company refused to load his tube because he figured if it went off he would be charged with murder. Instead he was charged with refusing to obey a direct order and sent to LBJ. After he was sent to the stockade, the Army withdrew the weapon for redesign. It was too dangerous. Blacks were also mistreated/raped in the stockade but there were so many in there that they literally ruled it.
I ran into two guys from the 198thLIB 1/52 who had been lifelong friends and were drafted together. They were ordered to open fire on a village. One man refused and was arrested, the other tearfully agreed to do the killing.
Their LT was drunk on duty when they started to take sniper fire from the village. He was sure that all villagers were in on it. They explained that these were just peasants not terrorists but he ordered the destruction anyway. The guy who fired said that he was just so afraid of being raped that he did it. He also knew that the deaths would occur anyway, because the other guys would fire. There was just no point in getting raped if it didn't stop the killing.
The threat of LBJ is one of the things that allowed the misbehavior of command.
BTW -- Homer we had one guy in the unit with 18 months in country who hadn't done his year of time in Nam! He was such a criminal that it was almost all stockade time.
homer4
Moderator
Posts: 978
(6/27/01 5:11:04 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incedible Mike!...the criminality of some of them bud. Bet Larry had his hands full. To heck with having to deal with the slugs of this world.
Sad that men were subjected to orders flagrantly violating Military and Moral principle. Heard of LBJ...glad I had no dealings with em.
Told ya'll about Charlse...that punk graduated to that center of higher learning.
A rape for him...more like a couple of rapes of him...would be justice.
...and two hard boiled eggs.
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 166
(6/28/01 12:51:44 am)
| Del LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer;
Charls sounds like a lot of guys I met at Ft Hood. Criminals who shouldn't be wearing the uniform. Their shirt needs a big P on the back -- and that's the only uniform they deserve.
Mike H
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 278
(6/28/01 7:10:56 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MikeH...the rapes did occur...just like they do in any prison population. In my post I refer to Aug 30, 1968 as the date that I got my "clock wound". This was the date of the riot that took place. I was at "ground zero" when it started. I was working the main gate to the maximum compound when prisoners jumped the MP's inside the compound. MP's are running toward my gate being chased by prisoners and yelling for me to open the gate. I knew if I opened the gate, the riot would get out of control. I had a choice...dont open the gate and watch brutality meted upon my buddies by prisoners or open the gate and take our chances. I chose to open the gate. Cut to the chase...I was beaten(as were other MP's) by several prisoners with a metal chair and bunk adapters. The stockade was built for approx 500 prisoners. There were between 700-800 prisoners the night of the riot.
One case for stupidity...a white GI was sent to the stockade for a 30 day sentence because he tapered his fatigues.
Edited by: LarryJK at: 6/28/01 8:19:50 am
TShooters
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 313
(6/28/01 10:48:40 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scarey situation, LarryJK! How much "force" were the MP's allowed to use with the prisoners/inmates? I assume it was highly restricted, just like combat conditions
(not being able to fire back when fired upon, until permissions were asked for and
granted up the chain of command)??
I do remember that at that time it was common when someone got in trouble with the
law, that judges would give two choices -- jail time or a hitch in the military. Guess they
thought they were doing those people a favor, and that military time would straighten
them out. Now I see that it was transferring a big problem from one area to another
that didn't need that problem.
Sharon
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 280
(6/28/01 12:43:26 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon...we did not carry weapons inside the stockade....except for a nightstick. If a prisoner was causing trouble, he was transferred to the "box" for solitary confinement for a specific amount of time. Sometimes this transfer might take at least two MP's to affect if the prisoner refused to cooperate.
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 461
(6/28/01 3:38:58 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry,
There were times I remember seeing tapered fatigues. Instead of blousing them with the blouser hooks we used they would put them inside their boots and pull them up a little. Glad you mentioned that. I would always wonder where they found that kind of fatigue and no one seem to know. (that is what you are speaking of correct?)
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 282
(6/28/01 4:05:45 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope...thanks for the reply, that reminded me...in posting about the GI who tapered his fatigues I forgot the point I was wanting to make. And that was that we, as MP's tapered our fatigues so as to maintain a sharp, crisp look to our fatigues. Of course not all of the MP's did this...just the ones that really cared about their appearance. We didn't get wrote up and nothing was said about ours. The Mamasan at the sewing place did ours. It was located next to the barbershop. I just could never except the fact that a grunt would get 30 days for doing the same thing we did. Also...I used blousing rubbers in addition to fatigues tapered. By using the rubbers the fatigues were shaped just right at the top of the boot.
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 464
(6/28/01 4:26:54 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Larry, entering the hdqtrs. I would always notice those sharp MPs (how could you not notice) I remember going in and they would come to a smart attention and bow. Some of them were sharp and then again some of them needed some help...lol At one time one of them started leaving me cards on my desk when I would leave. It took me the longest time to catch who it was. Anything to do to break the monotony. They would perform all kinds of antics when the brass wasn't looking.
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 266
(6/25/01 8:24:19 pm)
| Del All LBJ...the stockade!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a picture of the sumbich that wound my clock on Aug 30, 1968 at approximately 2330 hrs. LBJ...
http://www.petester.com/vnpics/lbj.jpg
Edited by: LarryJK at: 6/25/01 9:25:29 pm
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 454
(6/25/01 11:13:06 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ...the stockade!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Larry, now I remember. Glad I only had to go by it and not in it. - Hope
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 153
(6/26/01 1:19:28 am)
| Del LBJ -- THe Stackade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great Post Larry!
This place played a crucial part in the war. It was crucial to the perpetuation of racism in America and to the enforcement of discipline. Right or wrong if we crossed the wrong guy we were sent to Long Binh Junction.
If you failed to fire on civilians or at any time refused an order you were threatened immediately with LBJ. We were told that we would be gang raped by black inmates endlessly if we were sent there. The guys who were sent came back meaner and harder. Blacks or
homer4
Moderator
Posts: 971
(6/26/01 5:14:45 am)
| Del Re: LBJ -- THe Stackade
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asswipe command personnel Mike. Yeah, I knew a guy they hauled off to LBJ...good riddance to the piece of ****.
...and two hard boiled eggs.
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 156
(6/27/01 2:03:01 am)
| Del LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oops -- my ISP cut this post in half.
"bloods" were sent to LBJ at the drop of a hat while many white guys were let off with an article 15 or extra duty.
The Army developed a new weapon, it was an M16 with a grenade launcher tube under the barrel. These were later perfected but we had the ones with the defective trigger. When you loaded the tube and closed the breech, it fired a 40 MM grenade instantly. One of the bloods in Delta company refused to load his tube because he figured if it went off he would be charged with murder. Instead he was charged with refusing to obey a direct order and sent to LBJ. After he was sent to the stockade, the Army withdrew the weapon for redesign. It was too dangerous. Blacks were also mistreated/raped in the stockade but there were so many in there that they literally ruled it.
I ran into two guys from the 198thLIB 1/52 who had been lifelong friends and were drafted together. They were ordered to open fire on a village. One man refused and was arrested, the other tearfully agreed to do the killing.
Their LT was drunk on duty when they started to take sniper fire from the village. He was sure that all villagers were in on it. They explained that these were just peasants not terrorists but he ordered the destruction anyway. The guy who fired said that he was just so afraid of being raped that he did it. He also knew that the deaths would occur anyway, because the other guys would fire. There was just no point in getting raped if it didn't stop the killing.
The threat of LBJ is one of the things that allowed the misbehavior of command.
BTW -- Homer we had one guy in the unit with 18 months in country who hadn't done his year of time in Nam! He was such a criminal that it was almost all stockade time.
homer4
Moderator
Posts: 978
(6/27/01 5:11:04 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incedible Mike!...the criminality of some of them bud. Bet Larry had his hands full. To heck with having to deal with the slugs of this world.
Sad that men were subjected to orders flagrantly violating Military and Moral principle. Heard of LBJ...glad I had no dealings with em.
Told ya'll about Charlse...that punk graduated to that center of higher learning.
A rape for him...more like a couple of rapes of him...would be justice.
...and two hard boiled eggs.
106RR196LIB
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 166
(6/28/01 12:51:44 am)
| Del LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer;
Charls sounds like a lot of guys I met at Ft Hood. Criminals who shouldn't be wearing the uniform. Their shirt needs a big P on the back -- and that's the only uniform they deserve.
Mike H
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 278
(6/28/01 7:10:56 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MikeH...the rapes did occur...just like they do in any prison population. In my post I refer to Aug 30, 1968 as the date that I got my "clock wound". This was the date of the riot that took place. I was at "ground zero" when it started. I was working the main gate to the maximum compound when prisoners jumped the MP's inside the compound. MP's are running toward my gate being chased by prisoners and yelling for me to open the gate. I knew if I opened the gate, the riot would get out of control. I had a choice...dont open the gate and watch brutality meted upon my buddies by prisoners or open the gate and take our chances. I chose to open the gate. Cut to the chase...I was beaten(as were other MP's) by several prisoners with a metal chair and bunk adapters. The stockade was built for approx 500 prisoners. There were between 700-800 prisoners the night of the riot.
One case for stupidity...a white GI was sent to the stockade for a 30 day sentence because he tapered his fatigues.
Edited by: LarryJK at: 6/28/01 8:19:50 am
TShooters
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 313
(6/28/01 10:48:40 am)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scarey situation, LarryJK! How much "force" were the MP's allowed to use with the prisoners/inmates? I assume it was highly restricted, just like combat conditions
(not being able to fire back when fired upon, until permissions were asked for and
granted up the chain of command)??
I do remember that at that time it was common when someone got in trouble with the
law, that judges would give two choices -- jail time or a hitch in the military. Guess they
thought they were doing those people a favor, and that military time would straighten
them out. Now I see that it was transferring a big problem from one area to another
that didn't need that problem.
Sharon
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 280
(6/28/01 12:43:26 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sharon...we did not carry weapons inside the stockade....except for a nightstick. If a prisoner was causing trouble, he was transferred to the "box" for solitary confinement for a specific amount of time. Sometimes this transfer might take at least two MP's to affect if the prisoner refused to cooperate.
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 461
(6/28/01 3:38:58 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry,
There were times I remember seeing tapered fatigues. Instead of blousing them with the blouser hooks we used they would put them inside their boots and pull them up a little. Glad you mentioned that. I would always wonder where they found that kind of fatigue and no one seem to know. (that is what you are speaking of correct?)
LarryJK
Senior Chief Moderator III
Posts: 282
(6/28/01 4:05:45 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope...thanks for the reply, that reminded me...in posting about the GI who tapered his fatigues I forgot the point I was wanting to make. And that was that we, as MP's tapered our fatigues so as to maintain a sharp, crisp look to our fatigues. Of course not all of the MP's did this...just the ones that really cared about their appearance. We didn't get wrote up and nothing was said about ours. The Mamasan at the sewing place did ours. It was located next to the barbershop. I just could never except the fact that a grunt would get 30 days for doing the same thing we did. Also...I used blousing rubbers in addition to fatigues tapered. By using the rubbers the fatigues were shaped just right at the top of the boot.
hope6970
Moderator
Posts: 464
(6/28/01 4:26:54 pm)
| Del Re: LBJ
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes Larry, entering the hdqtrs. I would always notice those sharp MPs (how could you not notice) I remember going in and they would come to a smart attention and bow. Some of them were sharp and then again some of them needed some help...lol At one time one of them started leaving me cards on my desk when I would leave. It took me the longest time to catch who it was. Anything to do to break the monotony. They would perform all kinds of antics when the brass wasn't looking.