Opinions Please--Equipment for reloading

[PPK 32]

After today's visit to a gun show, it has prompted talk between some of my shooting buddy's about getting into reloading. I know very little, except to make sure if I get into it, do the research, there are no short cuts. Had several people think ya can just dump brass and powder in and make a round. I had to enlighten a few. Anyway, if money were not a problem, what would you recommend, with the goal in mind of making several rounds in a short span of time. One fellow spoke of a "progressive press", another recommended Dillon. I'd like to know what you guys think and why. Thank you for your time.

[Haligan]

I've found progressive presses very usefull in making handgun(straight-walled) ammo.
For rifle rounds I prefer single stage presses.
Once you buy a manual like; Lyman, or Lee Modern reloading, I think you'll find it reads like any good book. Before long your gonna see that reloading is not that difficult.

Sure you have to be carefull, sure you have to follow the load data. But it's only rocket science.:D

I have been reloading for many moons, (mabe 12 years now). I've used a couple presses. But I enjoy the easy step by step, slow, steady, single stage press. I know progressives can give my more rounds per hour, but I find the relaxing, methodical step by step process, very appealing.

Read the book(reloading manual), you should feel a whole lot more confident on reloading and what equipment you should get. (That's a pretty good deal for the price of a book)(Usually less than $25.00)

[Insulation Tim]

I started on this quest about 4 months ago after joining a sportsmen's club. Just about everyone at the pistol and rifle range reloads. Doing so saves money, but I think that just as importantly, allows you to build "your" custom round.

I purchased the Lee Classic Breech Lock Kit that had everything that you need except the dies. I had to go elsewhere to finds the .45ACP dies and yet a third location to find powder, primers and lead bullets (these are the times). This is a single stage press and I have cranked out about a thousand rounds. I enjoy it and tend to do one function, i.e. depriming, in batches of 300 to 400 at a time.

I never bought the books that everyone says you need to own. The information on loads is on the manufacturer's web site and even though Lee Instruction are a little hard to follow...."YouTube" solves that problem. Even though I'm an "old" guy....I have always felt that anything in print is potentially out dated when printed.

That being said, I really only intend to load one round for the forseeable future....the .45 ACP for my three 45's.

[gdmoody]

I started relaoding about 35 years ago with an old RCBS press that someone gave me. I used if for a while then I bought myself a LEE single stage press that I am still using 32 or 33 years later (I have had to replace a couple of parts). In about June of last year, I decided to go progressive so I bought a used LEE Loadmaster progressive press. I used it for a few months and for the first time ever, I started having squib loads (loads with low or no powder). I got rid of that press and bought myself a Dillon RL550B progressive press which is, in my humble opinion, the Rolls Royce of presses.

If money were no object, I would definately recommend going with a Dillon progressive press. Money would HAVE to be no object because Dillons are quite expensive. After you buy the press, you are just getting started spending. You will then have to buy the dies (but you can use other manufacturers dies), the tool heads, the conversion kits, the powder through dies, and the list seems to just keep going on.

[carver]

Like gdmoody, I have been reloading over 30 yrs. now. Since you have stated that you, and your buddies, will be using the ammo that you make, then I will again have to agree with gdmoody! Buy the Dillon RL550B. It will crank out enough ammo to satisfy you all, unless you guys get into the full auto stuff.:D

[TranterUK]

I have also reloaded for quite a while, at least 30 odd years and still enjoy doing it. There isnt much I still enjoy after all that time, which must tell you something....

As for getting started I recommend a visit to a good gun store and a chat with the guys there. Dont just buy what they say though, ask about the options and weigh them up along with the excellent advice given in the posts above. You will learn really quickly, and it is a very rewarding hobby.

[Waldog]

If you have never reloaded I STRONGLY recommend getting started with a single stage press. Get a reloaders packaged set up by RCBS, Hornady or, Lyman. After you have learned on that then you can progress to a progressive press. Don't worry, the single stage press is not wasted money. You will always use a single stage even if you buy a progressive press.

Read this for a "Fair and Balanced" evaluation of progressive loading presses: http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[PPK 32]

Some really good info, as usual, and lots of food for thought. Thanks.

[3ME]

It really depends on what you are going to load, and what you plan to do with it. If you are going to load a lot of anything (or several anythings) a progressive is the way to go. It is a simple matter of speed. I have a Dillon 650 and very happy with it. It is ideal for .45 ACP loads because between me and my sons, we go through a lot of them. I also load .357 Sig, .40 S&W and .223 Rem on the 650.

For hunting loads and high accuracy loads, I still do them on a single stage press and hand weigh each one. That is still the way to assure maximum consistency. In the time it tales to load 100 rounds of .270 Winchester by hand, I could probably load 700 rounds on the Dillon, but the power charges would vary more and there would be other minor differences in the quality. Don't get me wrong, the Dillon does a super job, but it cannot make power charges that are consistently within 0.1 grains. The only way to do that is to hand load each one. That takes more time and more care, but that 100 rounds of .270 Winchester will last me several years of hunting because I don't shoot that many of them. In an average year, I will shoot 10 or so checking zero and maybe 4 while hunting.

[312shooter]

PPK 32

I think all of us on this forum asked this question at one time and it shows you're right on track. Generally you have two extremes here progressive and single stage reloading both serve their purpose well. I shoot both rifle and pistol equally (match and plinker quality rounds) and a turret press IMHO answers the "in between" situation. It's much faster than single stage but not as quick as progressive, its simple enough for a beginner and allows you to advance die stages without losing track of 4 or 5 processes happening at once as in the progressives. I'd consider a turret or "semi-progressive" if you want to reload for several calibers, both rifle and pistol.

[PPK 32]

PPK 32

I think all of us on this forum asked this question at one time and it shows you're right on track. Generally you have two extremes here progressive and single stage reloading both serve their purpose well. I shoot both rifle and pistol equally (match and plinker quality rounds) and a turret press IMHO answers the "in between" situation. It's much faster than single stage but not as quick as progressive, its simple enough for a beginner and allows you to advance die stages without losing track of 4 or 5 processes happening at once as in the progressives. I'd consider a turret or "semi-progressive" if you want to reload for several calibers, both rifle and pistol.

Excellent point, while I shoot mainly hand guns, my shooting buddies shoot both rifle and hand guns, therefore there would be a lot of switching. Thanks.

[GMFWoodchuck]

I have a single stage. Now that's it's warm out I wish I had a progressive so that I can spend my time in the field rather than the basement. But when winter comes, the "time-consuming" single-stage will be well worth my time as I have nothing at all to do. But in all fairness, I usually have enough time to load and I'm not one of those 200-400 rounds a session shooters. Especially since I put my targets 300-400 yards away. That's an awfull lot of walking after awhile. :)

[woolleyworm]

Which calibers are you planning to reload? I would go with a rock chucker or similarily stout single stage to start with. You will NEVER not find a use for a single stage press. I started in reloading only a few years ago, my girlfriends father has a huge reloading room and I was forturnate to be mentored on several presses before making my "first press" decision. I went with the Dillon Square Deal progressive, 90% of what I shoot is .45 and I found a GREAT deal on a gently used one here in the forums. The SDB is limited to straight wall pistol only, but it has been very very consistent and easy to use. I will have a Dillon 650 one day, but money is an object for me at the moment. With all equiment, electronic scale, powder, primers; I had an initial investment of just under $900. With the 1500+ rnds that I've already cranked out, I'm well on my way to making it worth the cost. Like the saying goes, you don't really save any $$$,m you just shoot alot more. ( alot more accurately too )

Do your research, pick your press and then do some searching on the forums and ebay/craigslist; you'll find one out there at a good price. ( you just wont find primers right now, if you do, send me a PM :D)

[Freebore]

Well....there are as many opinions as there are reloaders. If I was starting out (and know what I know now) I would probably split the difference between single stage and progressive presses and go with a good turret press such as the Redding T7 or RCBS Turret. These presses provide all the advantages of a single stage along with some of the progressive models.

The turrets allow you to load both straigh and bottle shaped cases without any hassle, and you can set them up for multiple calibers. I also agree with the others that suggest a single stage (you can't argue with the majority) does provide an easy understanding of the loading process and will alway have a home on your loading bench.



My only closing comment is that when making choices of what kind of equipment to use, "do you load to shoot, or shoot to load"

[tEN wOLVES]

Howdy all

I'm like some of the others, I've always used a RCBS Rock chucker SINGLE STAGE PRESS, but a few years ago I got involved in Cowboy Action Shooting, and you burn up a lot more ammo, so about a year ago I started doing my homework on progressive presses, and tried and looked at most that were offered, some of my friends that had been using Dillon 550, and 650, presses, told me to take a look at the new Hornady Lock & Load AP, so I did and I started really getting interested in it, then I went back to my friends and asked why they suggested I looked at something different than the Dillon if that was what they were using, I was told that they were now using the LOCK & LOAD AP, for their most used calibers and the one pard had sold his 650, but kept his 550 for use on other cal. he had. This surprised me to say the least, but they said that Hornady is now putting out the best Progressive there is right now, with Dillon coming in second. they told me the Hornady is strong sturdy and solid, but the best thing it is the SMOOTHEST of them all, and makes a more precision bullets than the others.
I bought the Hornady L&L AP, and waited 4 months to get it, and everything they told me was true, and with the bushing conversion kit I can use it with my Rock chucker, and it is truly the SMOOTHEST PRESS I've tried. Dillon makes a great press too, but if you haven't tried the new Hornady L&L AP you owe it to yourself to check it out, it is worthy of that. The next thing for me will be the electric case loader, this press even has cert fittings so you can grease it up and keep it running smooth and reduce the wear, that was good thinking on Hornady's part, Hornady really did there home work well when thinking this out, five stations that index, a powder measure that won't dump powder unless there is a case present, a primer flower to keep pressure in the primer tube, and a powder dump that you put where the rotor is so you can empty the powder without taking the measure of the press, changing from one caliber doesn't cost an arm and a leg either, because of the bushing system/Lock & Load device, I will be able to use this press for all my needs, and will still use my Rock Chucker for my 45/70

tEN wOLVES :D:D:rolleyes::cool:

[gdmoody]

PPK

I will chime in again to say that if you start out with a single stage (and I agree that you should), you will be using it for years to come. Even if you eventually get yourself a progressive, the single stage will still be used. I believe that there are some cartridges that just will not "fit" into the progressives. Right now, I reload sixteen calibers (that I can think of) and I only use the Dillon for .40S&W, 9mm, and .45 ACP,

[LDBennett]

If money is no object the most versatile, durable and best supported by the manufacturer is the Dillon RL550B.

1). It can be used as a single stage press, a turret press, or a progressive press with no compromises.

2). It is durable. Mine is 20 years old and reloads ammo as well today as 20 years ago.

3). The time saved with a progressive, be it reloading for pistol or rifle, is time you can spend shooting.

4). If anything breaks Dillon fixes it free post haste. If the press is updated for any reason Dillon updates it for free.

5). While Hornady and RCBS have offered progressive presses through the last 25 years, both have released many variation of progressive presses, searching for anything to match the Dillon which is virtually the same press over that same period. Dillon got it right while RCBS and Hornady are still searching.

6). Like any tool that uses high forces to operate, reloading presses wear out. With Dillon RL550B you get a no BS warrantee that will rebuild the press for free. Mine is on it second rebuild in 20+ years of heavy use.

7). While Dillon stuff is not cheap it is durable. But when changing calibers you don't have to buy the complete changeover kit. You only need to buy the pieces you don't already have. For instance the family of case heads for 308 and 30-06 all use the same shell holder and retaining pins. All the 30 caliber cartridges use the same powder funnel. One powder measure does them all as it includes powder bars for both big and little cartridges. You need not buy the Dillon dies as any standard die set fits the RL550B.

If you want to buy one press in your lifetime, it should be the Dillon RL550B as it can do it all. If you start little (single stage), then get the turret, then the progressive you'll buy many presses through the years. Buy one Dillon RL550B and you got it all. The RL550B is the most versatile press Dillon makes. The other Dillons offer fewer or more features but the RL 550B is the most versatile. Few here or in your travels will have negative things to say about Dillon or their presses, especially the RL550B. I made the mistake of buying Hornady and Lee progressive presses and both are gone. The Dillon remains.

LDBennett

[Waldog]

If you are new to reloading I stand by my original statement of staring with a single stage press. A progressive press has a lot of things going on at the same time and can be very frustrating for a NEWBY. If you really want to start with a progressive press, here is my perspective:

Your question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on both. Here is my perspective:

Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.

The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are dedicated to their blue presses. The Dillon's are EXCEPTIONAL presses and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied I was swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" I asked if they had ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L.

IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST.

Also, IMHO, the Dillon priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON primer system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. The Hornady L-N-L spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder.

I think you stated you wanted a powder check system. The Dillon Square Deal and 550 has 4 die stations. You need 5 stations to have a powder check. The L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations, but costs significantly more.

How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!). The VAST MAJORITY of kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but operator error. If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a case. IMHO, that is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady L-N-L, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550 is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto.

Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calipers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L!

Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.
There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate.

You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo about 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.

In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is much cheaper. Changing calipers is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. And lastly, Hornady has a lifetime warranty as well. My experience with customer support has been equal to Dillon. And should you have any problems their Tech Support people are wonderful. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

The Dillon, Hornady and RCBS are all excellent presses. Each has it's quirks but, each is a top quality product.

[LDBennett]

I feel compelled to answer the above post and to point out that this “battle of the presses” has gone on for years but here is my take:

1). “A progressive press has a lot of things going on at the same time and can be very frustrating for a NEWBY.”

Nothing is going on if you use the press like a single stage press initially, then a turret press. Then when you have some reloading behind you, you can go to full progressive or revert to turret or single stage… that’s the versatility I talked about in my previous post.

2). “I asked if they had ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no.”

I had a Hornady progressive shotgun press that was junk and Hornady did not stand behind it. They simply brought out a new model and abandoned all owners of the previous models. That is not service! The new cartridge progressive reloading press may be great but will they abandon buyers when a new version comes out???

3). “The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate.”

Virtually every powder burning rate is available in a ball or short cut extruded powder, both of which the measure accommodates well. Most of the Hodgdon and Winchester and some of the IMR line of short cut extruded powders meter well in the Dillon powder measure. Since Hodgdon now controls those three brands, look for more short cut extruded powders from all three, since that is one of the latest things in powders today. The adjustment of the Dillon powder bar is no more fiddly than any other powder measure but it does not have a calibrated scale so you just count turns out on the adjuster to get in the ball park. a scale is required to get it right on but that is true with any powder measure I have used.

4). “Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers.”

It takes two allen screws and the powder measure is off the press head. I reload for over 20 different calibers and I have one Dillon powder measure. I do leave the sizing die on the removable press head as well as the universal powder die, and the seating and crimping die(s). That leaves each caliber set up so that changing calibers is a few minutes job.

5). “Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON primer system works well provided it is kept CLEAN.”

In 20+ years of using the Dillon RL550B I have not seen this problem but I clean the priming station when I change calibers perhaps every 200 to 500 rounds, depending. The cleaning is wiping the press off in the priming station with a rag.

6). “…..a powder check system” and “….a manually indexing press.”

In 20+ years of reloading over 20 different rifle and pistol calibers I have never had a double charge and I don’t have a powder check system. The Dillon system is designed so that unless you do stupid things, it can’t happen. As with any reloading task you have to pay attention, no matter whose press you use. The manual indexing is the thing that makes the Dillon possible to easily be a single stage, turret or progressive press. I have used and even owned an auto indexing press and if you develop a problem in one station it becomes a nightmare to rectify.

7). “The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings.”

Yes, but you slide the die plate in, drop in two pins, and you are done. It is faster to use than the Hornady design.

8). “And, in some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system.”

While the Hornady may look stronger, it only matter how it works. The Hornady is a relatively new press compared to the Dillon which has an excellent reputation for durability. Dillon stands behind their presses full force with their “No BS Warrantee”. My experience with Hornady’s warrantee is not so great.

9). “….people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo about 99% of the time.”

I must not be most people as I probably load more rifle ammo than pistol ammo based on reloading sessions, not cartridge count. The Dillon RL550B is a lot more than just a pistol reloader and has no real compromises when it comes to reloading either pistol or rifle cartridges. I will add that I had a Dillon Square Deal and disliked the auto advance and the limited versatility (pistol ammo only). I would not own the RL650 because it has auto indexing of the table reducing its versatility for me.

A new reloader can and will buy what ever he wants, regardless of what I or Waldog say but at a minimum I would recommend a turret press like the Lyman and to stay away from the cheapy Lee presses and dies. If you buy Hornady, RCBS, Redding, Forester, Lyman, or Dillon then you will be buying equipment that generally will last beyond your lifetime.

The above is only my opinion based on my experiences. Other will and DO have their opinions. Neither Waldog or I are wrong but just each have our own preferences, I hope based on real experience.

LDBennett

[Waldog]

Remember what I said about "Blue verses Red verses etc." Each of us has an opinion.

Be sure to note the very last sentence in my post; The Dillon, Hornady and RCBS are all excellent presses. Each has it's quirks but, each is a top quality product.

[Freebore]

I would like to second my original opinion on this matter and say that progressive presses are excellent for bulk loading, I currently have three that serve that purpose just fine, but when I get serious about developing accurate loads I only use my Single Stage RCBS A2, it allows me the opportunity to inspect and select cases, clean primer pockets (can't stand that crunchy sound), and hand measuring those critical powder loads, along with fine tuning seating depth.

My 221 FB and 257 Robts Imp are very very (did I mention very) picky when it comes to being reloaded, I would never load those with a progressive.

For full vesatility you just can't beat the SS presses.

Not meant to step on any toes.... but it is what it is....

[LDBennett]

Freebore:

For years and years some reloaders have preached particular techniques for accurate reloading. One was weighing and trickling the powder for each case to get it dead nuts. It turns out according to modern thinking, proved by experts, that super accurate powder measurement is not all that helpful in getting to an accurate load. Other variables of reloading swamp out any advantage such efforts, making weighing each load a waste of time if you have a good powder measurer.

For an insight into what really makes a difference, you should view the DVD video by Handloader Magazine contributor John Barsness "Advanced Handloading Beyond the Basics". His opinion, which he proves, is that concentricity makes the biggest difference and weighing each load is a waste of time.

Others are getting on board with this thinking as the newest tool from Hornady is a device to measure and correct concentricity of the finished cartridge. There is more to it than just that so you'll have to view the video.

I prep some calibers of my brass using the Dillon RL550B as a single stage press. I'll size the cases, trim them, and then clean the primer pockets. I remove the sizing die from the press and finish the loading, including priming the brass, progressively. Because the Dillon RL550B does not have auto advance of the table, using it as a single stage press is easy.

LDBennett

[Freebore]

I find it hard to believe that anybody who is serious about accuracy would say weighing each powder charge is a waste of time. I believe Mr. Barsness would probably have to eat those words if he ever attended any of the national benchrest matches and made that statement to the shooters, yes they also use a powder measure, but they still weigh.

I agree that bullet concentricity is a very very important factor, along with proper seating pressure, flashhole uniformity, case wall thickness, etc. The idea behind accurate loading is to be so consistant and uniform that the barrel doesn't know one round from another. Elimination of as many variables as possible produces consistant tack driving shots round after round. Most of the Benchrest Shooters I shoot with weigh their charges.

No offense but, I think I'll take a pass on the Barsness video.....just venting again !

[RustyFN]

I load on a Lee classic turret and it will make ammo at a decent rate but if you are loading for a few people I would go progressive. The only progressive I have used is a friends Dillon 550 and it was a very nice press. I agree with LDBennett and think you could start on the 550 no problem. Just load one round at a time until you understand. When you are ready you can go full progressive.
Rusty

[PPK 32]

Well, I just had a Lee turret drop in my lap for 20 bucks. No manuals and dies for a caliber that I don't use but for 20 bucks how can ya go wrong. Now, what manuals do I need and were do I find a serial number or something so I can get the manuals for this press. Everything was damaged in a flood, little rusty but in good shape. First step is for me to start doing some reading. Thanks for all the input.

[BigJakeJ1s]

For pistol cartridge reloading, the Dillon 650 and Hornady LNL AP are closely matched, except in price.

For rifle cartridge reloading, the LNL AP offers flexibility that the 650 does not. The LNL AP's powder measure works better with a wider choice of powders, particularly extruded powders that are often more immune to temperature-performance variations than short-cut, ball or flake powders.

The Hornady offers optional, factory supported, micrometer adjustment for the PM. Metering inserts (micrometer adjustable or not) are easily interchangeable, without removing or emptying the PM.

The LNL AP PM works in any station (as long as the case is primed before it gets there!), but the current Dillon 650 PM works only in the second station. Some rifle reloading procedures include separate neck sizing and shoulder bumping operations, or separate FL sizing and neck-expanding operations. These can be accommodated by moving the LNL AP PM to the 3rd station, but you have to make multiple passes through the 650. On the LNL AP, dies can easily be individually removed/replaced depending on what a particular batch of ammo needs.

Turret-style reloading is easier on a LNL AP than a 650. If the LNL AP does not use the primer (if there is no case to prime there), it is saved until it is needed. The 650 removes a primer from the magazine for every cycle, whether the primer is used or not.

Single stage reloading is easier on a LNL AP than on a 650, since individual dies can easily be removed and installed.

Particularly for rifle loading, many Dillon users prefer the 550 over the 650 because of the versatility of its manual indexing. The LNL AP offers more flexibility, more stations, better spent primer handling, auto indexing and an optional case feeder that works with rifle cases.

Andy

[tEN wOLVES]

For pistol cartridge reloading, the Dillon 650 and Hornady LNL AP are closely matched, except in price.

For rifle cartridge reloading, the LNL AP offers flexibility that the 650 does not. The LNL AP's powder measure works better with a wider choice of powders, particularly extruded powders that are often more immune to temperature-performance variations than short-cut, ball or flake powders.

The Hornady offers optional, factory supported, micrometer adjustment for the PM. Metering inserts (micrometer adjustable or not) are easily interchangeable, without removing or emptying the PM.

The LNL AP PM works in any station (as long as the case is primed before it gets there!), but the current Dillon 650 PM works only in the second station. Some rifle reloading procedures include separate neck sizing and shoulder bumping operations, or separate FL sizing and neck-expanding operations. These can be accommodated by moving the LNL AP PM to the 3rd station, but you have to make multiple passes through the 650. On the LNL AP, dies can easily be individually removed/replaced depending on what a particular batch of ammo needs.

Turret-style reloading is easier on a LNL AP than a 650. If the LNL AP does not use the primer (if there is no case to prime there), it is saved until it is needed. The 650 removes a primer from the magazine for every cycle, whether the primer is used or not.

Single stage reloading is easier on a LNL AP than on a 650, since individual dies can easily be removed and installed.

Particularly for rifle loading, many Dillon users prefer the 550 over the 650 because of the versatility of its manual indexing. The LNL AP offers more flexibility, more stations, better spent primer handling, auto indexing and an optional case feeder that works with rifle cases.

Andy

I couldn't agree more, Hornady really did there home work on the L&L AP.


tEN wOLVES :):cool:

[LDBennett]

PPK32:

You don't need a instruction manual for the press as most turret and single stage presses are dead simple.

For reloading manuals I like the Hornady because it explains and illustrates how cartridges work so that you more thoroughly understand what the reloading process steps do during reloading. Any of the standard reloading manual from Hodgdon, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Lyman cover the process well and give many reloads for common and not so common cartridges.

I do suggest that before you attempt to reload cartridge one that you read and re-read the reloading manuals so that most all questions you might have get answered. If you are still confused on a point or two, come back here and ask any question that you might have. We are here to help. No question is dumb if you have done your homework first.

LDBennett

[PPK 32]

PPK32:

You don't need a instruction manual for the press as most turret and single stage presses are dead simple.

For reloading manuals I like the Hornady because it explains and illustrates how cartridges work so that you more thoroughly understand what the reloading process steps do during reloading. Any of the standard reloading manual from Hodgdon, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Lyman cover the process well and give many reloads for common and not so common cartridges.

I do suggest that before you attempt to reload cartridge one that you read and re-read the reloading manuals so that most all questions you might have get answered. If you are still confused on a point or two, come back here and ask any question that you might have. We are here to help. No question is dumb if you have done your homework first.

LDBennett

It does look pretty simple. However, I know the penalty for going in blind and not doing the proper homework. You can bet money the manual will be studied to death, all questions will be asked. No such thing as a dumb question, one of the reasons I like it here!! Thanks for the input!!

[Old Guy]

I too am just getting started. I bought a Lee Challenger single stage press and have been acquiring all of the items needed (dies, deburring, etc.). There is a good book called "The ABC'S of Reloading" by Bill Chevalier that is a great resource. I also have purchased several re-loading manuals with the Speer manual being the hardest to find. Each has great information and approaches the subject from different angles. I was advised by my gun shop owner to have several manuals because you can never have too much information, especially since each one covers slightly different angles. I bought most of the manuals at www.cabelas.com and www.cheaperthandirt.com. I did just order the Speer and the only place that I found it was on E-bay. I know that I paid too much, but I had searched many places only to find the word "out" at every one.

Good luck!

Old Guy

[gdmoody]

Well, I just had a Lee turret drop in my lap for 20 bucks. No manuals and dies for a caliber that I don't use but for 20 bucks how can ya go wrong. Now, what manuals do I need and were do I find a serial number or something so I can get the manuals for this press. Everything was damaged in a flood, little rusty but in good shape. First step is for me to start doing some reading. Thanks for all the input.

PPK, I don't know if they have anything on the turret presses, but the LEE website has videos for setting up their progressive presses. That wold be a good place to start. Even if they don't have any videos, they would probably be able to send you the information you want. Here is a link to their website: http://www.leeprecision.com/

[PPK 32]

Thanks for the link, thats what this is the Lee Classic Turret. Also explains, there seems to be lots missing too. Tray for primers and such, when I get time I will need to make a wish list. Can this thing do 7.62 X 39 rifle ammo? Just curious--not that I have anything that shoots this, if you guys get my drift and I know you do.:D

[kd4tsc]

STAY AWAY FROM LEE!!! Anything else will do fine. Remember, your are working with potentially deadly products (Powder and primers) so price should not dictate what you purchase. Pay the extra for a Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, Ponsness-Warren, Hornady, etc...

[Old Guy]

STAY AWAY FROM LEE!!! Anything else will do fine. Remember, your are working with potentially deadly products (Powder and primers) so price should not dictate what you purchase. Pay the extra for a Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, Ponsness-Warren, Hornady, etc...

Interesting, one of my local gun dealers has been re-loading for 40+ years on Lee equipment and has not had any issues.

Old Guy

[RustyFN]

STAY AWAY FROM LEE!!! Anything else will do fine. Remember, your are working with potentially deadly products (Powder and primers) so price should not dictate what you purchase. Pay the extra for a Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, Ponsness-Warren, Hornady, etc...

:D That's one of the best ones I've seen so far.

PPK 32 let us know what you got with the press and we can let you know what you need to complete the setup. Also let us know what calibers you want to load. I have been loading on a classic turret for three years and it has been a great press for me.
Rusty

[Bboomer]

.... Doing so saves money.....

Turn, run away as fast as you can. Thats the only way that you will save any $$$. Its an endless pitt !

Sure is lotsa fun though, and a great way to un-wind.

[PPK 32]

:D That's one of the best ones I've seen so far.

PPK 32 let us know what you got with the press and we can let you know what you need to complete the setup. Also let us know what calibers you want to load. I have been loading on a classic turret for three years and it has been a great press for me.
Rusty

Looks to me I have the press all set up from the factory to load .44? I have the press itself and some misc stuff. I downloaded the manual, but have not had time to study it yet. Looks like its missing a powder dispensor and the primer tray, thats just what I am able to figure out so far. Calibers I will want to reload are as follows, 9mm, .38, .45. Probably the .45 first then move to the 38s. Also will this thing load 7.62 X 39 rifle ammo??

Thanks to everyone for your help. I am sure there will be many more questions later on.

[CJ7365]

STAY AWAY FROM LEE!!! Anything else will do fine. Remember, your are working with potentially deadly products (Powder and primers) so price should not dictate what you purchase. Pay the extra for a Lyman, RCBS, Dillon, Ponsness-Warren, Hornady, etc...

You stay away kd4tsc, maybe you have had "bad luck" with Lee, but it could be your expierence in how to use a press

Although opinions are nice, you do not justify yours, until you do, you stay away

PPK32, Lee equipment is fine, as you will see from the posts on this forum, as well as RCBS, Hornady, Dillion etc.

Just like choosing a GMC, Chevy or Ford, to each there own.

You will have to make the choice based on your budget and research

[LDBennett]

I will "justify" kd4tscn opinion to stay away from Lee equipment, as I have on many occasions here. Just do a search. Lee has good ideas and some good designs but they often suffer from a bad choice of materials in an attempt to keep the price low rather than make reliable long lasting reloading equipment. To me, and many others here, quality tools are worth more money. Think Harbor Freight tools when you think of Lee.

If its a car to car comparison you want to use, the Lee stuff is a YUGO and the rest of the reloading equipment is Corvettes.

Another bother is the arrogance of Lee, the man. Read his reloading manual and you will leave with the opinion that he thinks only his tools are the ones to use and all the other manufacturer's of reloading equipment are stupid, because they don't make tools to a price but make them to last for many, many decades, if not forever.

But this is my opinion and that of kd4tscn (apparently) and yours may differ.

LDBennett

[tim.sr]

That is to bad I have a lee 4 die progressive that has worked with me for 25yrs and I have not had to fix it yet!

[LDBennett]

tim.sr:

You need to buy a lottery ticket as you seem to be very lucky.

My Lee Progressive broke every time I used it as it did for the fellow that was unlucky enough to buy it from me. Others here have expressed the same problem so I don't think it was just one bad press.

Their collet dies, including the Factory Crimp Die that I like, gall in the collet and require stoning after a little use. Their reloading dies, stored along with other manufacturer's dies, rusted. Some of their tools are plastic (now that will last a long time... right!). These are failures to use the right materials in their designs.

Some here, obviously including you, have had great success with Lee and love Lee stuff but I think there is enough of us that have found Lee tools lacking that it is a trend, not a few disgruntled buyers. But, who knows? Surveys done here show that Lee stuff is more popular than not. I don't understand based on my experiences with Lee stuff (??). Maybe it is luck? I won't be buying any lottery tickets!

LDBennett

[RustyFN]

tim.sr:

You need to buy a lottery ticket as you seem to be very lucky.

My Lee Progressive broke every time I used it as it did for the fellow that was unlucky enough to buy it from me. Others here have expressed the same problem so I don't think it was just one bad press.

Their collet dies, including the Factory Crimp Die that I like, gall in the collet and require stoning after a little use. Their reloading dies, stored along with other manufacturer's dies, rusted. Some of their tools are plastic (now that will last a long time... right!). These are failures to use the right materials in their designs.

Some here, obviously including you, have had great success with Lee and love Lee stuff but I think there is enough of us that have found Lee tools lacking that it is a trend, not a few disgruntled buyers. But, who knows? Surveys done here show that Lee stuff is more popular than not. I don't understand based on my experiences with Lee stuff (??). Maybe it is luck? I won't be buying any lottery tickets!

LDBennett


I don't have an opinion on the Lee progressives because I have never used one and have to agree that I see more bad comments than good. But you can't disqualify a complete line because of a couple of presses. The classic cast presses are very well made. It's like saying I had a ford truck once and didn't like it so stay away from all Ford products. I expect the Chevy guys to jump in any minute.:D

PPK 32,
I would recommend the pro auto disk powder measure, LG and SM safety prime, a decent scale, caliper and bullet puller. A tumbler to clean the brass is great to have but the brass can be cleaned other ways. Almost forgot you will want the auto disk riser also. For rifle you will need to buy the rifle charging die separate and the double disk kit.

Rusty

[ccwhite]

When I decided I wanted to get started reloading I got a good bit of advise from a friend of mine and I'll pass it along here. First. Go buy a reloading manual. (the first one I bought was the speer) You don't need every one ever made but you will need one and the info in the beginning of the manual is a complete "how-to" for reloading. Second. Start with a single stage press. Learn how to make em one at a time before you go to mass producing. Even if you upgrade to a progressive later you'll find that the single stage is still nice to have around.

I would add to this. Don't run out and buy a reloading kit. A lot of people start out this way and that is fine. I took my time and decided what I wanted before I bought. I liked the press by one manufacturer and the powder dispenser by another. I mixed and matched a nice setup that works good for me. I still load on my single stage press and don't think I'll go to a progressive. You'll also find once you get started that there will be lots of "stuff" that you'll want. Some stuff you need and other stuf ya just gotta have. I enjoy it. It's proven very educational and very satisfying.

Just my $.02 Have fun!!:D

[ccwhite]

I have.
Lee Classic Cast press (single stage)
RCBS chargemaster 1500 Digital powder dispenser/ scale combo
RCBS case tumbler
Cabelas media separator
RCBS TrimPro case trimmer
2 RCBS Universal Hand Priming tools (1 set up for each large & small primers)
Lee Universal shell holder set
RCBS Dies (.40S&W .44MAG .22-250 & Universal Decapping)
Lyman reloading manual
Speer reloading manual
Hornady reloading manual
MTM loading block (which I never use)
:cool:

[daboone]

STAY AWAY FROM LEE!!!

opinions, opinions!

You might do a Google search for "LoadMaster Zone". There are plenty of folks there who are very happy with Lee's stuff. There is a forum for turret presses at this site you might find helpful. No Lee bashing just good advice from other successful reloaders.

[RustyFN]

Everything you wanted to know about Lee products and more.

http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/index.php

Rusty

[tim.sr]

LDBennett

{ My Lee Progressive broke every time I used it as it did for the fellow that was unlucky enough to buy it from me}.

how and what broke give me stuff to look out for.

as for lottery tickets Im not that lucky.

[LDBennett]

tim.sr:

I bought the Lee Progressive in about 1985 and I have long since forgotten the details of what broke on the Lee Progressive but I can tell you that almost every reloading session was interrupted to fix the press and all I loaded on it was 9mm and 10mm pistol.

As it had Auto indexing and a cartridge feeder done with mickey mouse designs, the opportunity for pieces and parts to not do their job was high. The Loadmaster is a completely different progressive press based on an O-frame design. I have not used it but it includes a case feeder and auto indexing, both of which MAY cause problems (??).

Don't get me wrong. Lee makes a couple of sturdy presses but the experience with the Lee Progressive was terrible. Having their dies fail and using their plastic powder measures only cemented my dislike for things Lee. I would add I also had a Dillon Square Deal after the Lee and disliked it as well (auto indexing again!). Mess up on one station and it was a nightmare to get it all straightened out and I broke it too (It may have been my mounting as it was the handle and it broke multiple times). When I expressed my displeasure with the Dillon Square Deal and had by that point in time bought rifles that needed reloads, Dillon took the press back with full value, after the one year money back guarantee period, and applied full value to the Dillon RL550B. That press is a durable, reliable, versatile press I have had ever since. I have seen no other press that I would rather have despite more than 20 years of progress in the reloading world! I have reloaded so much ammo on the RL550B that I wore it out twice. But Dillon rebuilt the press both times for free decades after the original purchase, updated it a couple of times with new and better parts, and when it did break a part, a free replacement was sent immediately.

If I had it to do all over again I would buy the Dillon RL550B first and avoid the problems with the other presses. I would add that I had a Hornady shotgun press and it was so bad that Hornady dropped the design and released a totally different design within a year of my purchase. Hornady would not take their junk press back for any compensation on the new model. That experience and the reverse experience with Dillon has me down on Hornady presses too, although they may be great presses today and MAY have better customer service today(???).

I have been reloading for all this time and made all the mistakes and had all the problems you can imagine (that's why I offer up solutions here, as I have "been there, done that" on most any problem you can imagine in reloading). On a couple of occasion the problems so perplexed me that I had to seek outside help. The Dillon TECH staff has experience so deep that they have on those occasions help me solve those reloading problems.

So I am Dillon positive biased and anti-Lee, anti Hornady presses ... and that's a fact of life. I had a new Chevy El Camino in 1964. The problems I had with that GM product were so terrible that I never bought another GM product again and only buy Japanese and Ford auto products today. That's where I am at with LEE in particular, just like RustyFN guessed.

LDBennett

[RustyFN]

So I am Dillon positive biased and anti-Lee, anti Hornady presses ... and that's a fact of life. I had a new Chevy El Camino in 1964. The problems I had with that GM product were so terrible that I never bought another GM product again and only buy Japanese and Ford auto products today. That's where I am at with LEE in particular, just like RustyFN guessed.

Where is the roll on floor laughing smile. I have only used Lee and Dillon presses and liked them both so I can't say much about presses. I do share your opinion on auto's though.:D

Rusty

[gdmoody]

PPK, to answer your last question about the 7.62X39 reloading. If you can get a die for it then the press should be able to handle it. Don't pay much attention to the blue vs. red war that seems to be waging, opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one. I own both a red press and a blue press and they both work fine, it is kind of tiresome hearing all the LEE bashing that goes on!

[PPK 32]

[QUOTE=gdmoody;441557]PPK, to answer your last question about the 7.62X39 reloading. If you can get a die for it then the press should be able to handle it.




Appreciate the input, this is a big help for me, one more I can load for. I understand about preferances we all have em. There is no doubt in my mind there is a lot of knowledge and experience here, thats what I like about TFF.

[tim.sr]

OK if my Lee press dies I will look in to a Dillon RL550B :}

[smokyhollowforge]

After reading lots of input from this thread and others here it does seem like everyone has there dislikes and likes about different presses. I have now starting reading the ABC'S OF RELOADING book and find it very helpful. I am waiting on two other books to arrive. I am now leaning towards a turret press thinking that I will mainly be reloading 45 cal acp for now and I should be able to load my 30-30 and 30-06 rounds later with it to. I must admit LEE has the best price on there turret press kit ($99.99 at Natchez). Looking at there video on using it, it does look very simple to use and seems like it would be faster to load on the a single stage set up. I think for around $200 I can get set up with the lee 4 hole turret system and a few extras that would work fine for me starting out. I can always upgrade later if I need to.
Thank you for all the input as usual the info out here is a BIG help!

[tEN wOLVES]

Smoky, that's a good choice, I'd like to suggest you think about getting the LEE CLASSIC TURRET, it's built better than the other one, it's only a few dollars more but well worth the difference, My friend has one and loves it, hes at 11,ooo rounds with it and hasn't had a lick of trouble with it, I was seriously thinking of getting one myself until I decided to get the Hornady L&L AP, I think you will be real happy with it.:cool:

Regards

tEN wOLVES :):D

[LDBennett]

For a few pennies more you can have a brute of a turret press that will last a lifetime:

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0037524211019a.shtml

The Lyman T-Mag II Reloading Press is a much better choice than the weakling Lee Turret. Look at the customer ratings for the Lyman press.

A little searching might find a better price than Cabelas, too. But just my opinion.

LDBennett

[smokyhollowforge]

For a few pennies more you can have a brute of a turret press that will last a lifetime:

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0037524211019a.shtml

The Lyman T-Mag II Reloading Press is a much better choice than the weakling Lee Turret. Look at the customer ratings for the Lyman press.

A little searching might find a better price than Cabelas, too. But just my opinion.

LDBennett

I was looking at the t-mag kit. what turned me off is when I called Lyman on the phone the other day and ask about there product warranty the lady I was talking to seemed rude and said there is only a one year warranty on there products. She acted like I was bothering her with my question. So I decided from that experience that Lyman was out. I do like there set up.
Thanks

[LDBennett]

smokyhollowforge:

If it is customer service you must have then buy a Dillon as they are the industry leader in customer service and they also make fine presses too. Their RL550B can be used easily as a single stage press, a turret press, or a progressive press. But you have to pay for a progressive press.

Few reloading equipment manufacturers give warrantees longer than a year. If a press has a manufacturing default it probably will show up in less than a year, if you use it at all. Lifetime warrantee are rare for any product (except Dillon). It would be a shame to pass on Lyman because of one rude lady on the phone. The world is full of rude people and they can work for anyone but maybe not for long.

If I didn't have a Dillon then I'd have the Lyman turret. I have used a much older version at a friends house over 20 years ago and it was an excellent press. The newest version is a better press!

LDBennett

[RustyFN]

I went with the Lee classic turret because everybody I talked to that loaded on a Lyman turret said it wasn't much faster than a single stage press, just more convenient to leave the dies setup. The Lee classic cast turret is at least three times faster than a single stage press. I have had the Classic turret for three years and have loaded thousands of rounds on it and am very happy with the press. My experience with the classic cast turret is it is a very solid press and will also last a life time.
Rusty

[dsv424]

I also have the Lee Classic Turret and love it. In the eight months I have had it I have made thousands of rounds in six different calibers and it has worked flawlessly. It is just so easy to use and caliber change out takes less than a minute to do. I got mine at Kempf's, they seemed to have the best deal IMHO for the kit I purchased.

[PPK 32]

I also have the Lee Classic Turret and love it. In the eight months I have had it I have made thousands of rounds in six different calibers and it has worked flawlessly. It is just so easy to use and caliber change out takes less than a minute to do. I got mine at Kempf's, they seemed to have the best deal IMHO for the kit I purchased.


So even if I did not get all the paper work and am missing a few odds and ends, I made out pretty good for 20 bucks??

[CJ7365]

For a few pennies more you can have a brute of a turret press that will last a lifetime:

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0037524211019a.shtml

The Lyman T-Mag II Reloading Press is a much better choice than the weakling Lee Turret. Look at the customer ratings for the Lyman press.

A little searching might find a better price than Cabelas, too. But just my opinion.

LDBennett

Boy we are little disgruntled with Lee, any time Lee comes up, you Bennett seem to bash, why not just give your opinon on what you like with out bashing Lee, oh and Bennett Ill put my LEE turret up against your big blue monster any day:D