2 unknown .32 shorts

[focusmaniaczx3]

after telling my dad about the success i had with you guys helping me identify my "new" iver johnson .32 today we are wanting to figure out what his old .32's are exactly.
Information I have: if i use a * in the description that means the letter or symbol is too degraded to make out.
the first one is a smith and wesson top loading 5 shooter double action trigger. on the side of the barrel it looks like it says "*32 S. & W. CTG*" the serial number on the bottom of the grip says "254986" it has the S&W trademark stamped on the metal directly under the hammer as well as on the top of the grip on both sides. i cannot get the screw out of the grip to remove it and see what's under there.
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00177.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00178.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00179.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00180.jpg
the second one i have no clue what it is. there are no identifying marks on the gun that im familiar with. it is also a .32 short top loading 5 shooter. but it is a single action hammerless. at the top of the grip on both sides it has U.S. stamped into the grip. the serial number is on the bottom of the trigger guard. i cannot remove the grip from this one either but luckily i can clearly read the serial number. it is 030643. there is also some very very faint lettering on the bottom of the grip it says "**AT, JUNE 1696 UC**" and then under that it says P or F A then F or T'S FENDIN** or something to that effect. its so worn down that i can barely make out anything.
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00173.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00172.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00174.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00176.jpg
http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp346/focusmaniaczx3/DSC00175.jpg
i would like to learn as much information about these 2 revolvers as i can. it would be nice to get a guesstimation as to how much they might be worth. (my old man is dying to know). thanks for any help you guys

[b.goforth]

i can't help you with the S&W but the second model is most likely a second model iver johnson safety automactic hammerless serial number O 30643 was manufactured in 1905. but it could also be a U.S. Revolver Co. model which were built on the second model frame. i am betting on the grips not being original.

SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMERLESS REVOLVER
(Black Powder Cartridges)------------- -–1896-1908
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, Hammer the Hammer action, nickel finish with blue optional, two frame sizes and three calibers. Hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire with 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire with 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ¼ inches; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ½ ounces, .32 centerfire 13 ½ ounces, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 17 ¾ ounces; Height: small frame 3 ¾ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/16 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall all length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$285 60%=$150
For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100%

this revolver in the condition shown is probably not worth more than $50 as a parts gun.
bill

[deadin]

Going by the serial number, the first one is a .32 S&W Double Action 4th Model.
These were made in the serial range of 43,406 - 282,999 from c.1883 - 1909.
Appr, 239,000 produced. I can't get any idea of condition from the pictures, but these are not scarce guns. Normal values seem to run between less than $100 up to a couple hundred. Real nice original ones may bring more.

[TheGunClinger]

Just want to take this opportunity to say how amazed I am with Mr. Goforth and his wealth of knowledge and his sharing of this knowledge. It must be a full time job. Many kudo's to you Sir.