Handgun stock question

[MutedUziel]

Alright here we go.
If I were to buy This. (http://www.zahal.org/rifle/p22.htm) Would the tax stamp need to be for the stock or the G20 that I want it for? :confused:
Also would it count as an N.F.A. or an A.O.W. ?
Which tax stamp would i need?
Would it be $ 200.00 or just $ 5.00?

Thanks,
~Muted~

[Alpo]

If it does need papered, it would be an SBR. 200 dollars. But does it actually attach to the gun? The video wouldn't play, so I don't know. If it is not attached to the stock, but is only held there by your hand (which is what it looks like it does) I don't think the rule applies.

This, however, is outside of my experience. I suggest you write ATF and aks them. Don't email - they won't answer legal questions via email. Don't call - with a call you have no record of what happened. Write them, and get a response back on ATF letterhead. That way, whatever they said, you'll know you're legal.

[Alpo]

Update: Now the video works. It's attached to the gun. It would be an SBR.

I think, but am not sure, that the paper would be for the stock, as it could be put on several different guns. Same as with a silencer, that could be put on several different guns.

But, like I said previously, ask ATF.

[johnlives4christ]

i dont think that the stock would be papered alpo because i've seen them for sale in sportsmansguide before. if the stock needed papers like silencers then you would have to purchase them through a class 3 just like you do silencers wouldnt you?

[MutedUziel]

So if it isn't the stock that's papered would it need to be installed permanently to the gun? Since it would work with four of the guns already in my safe.

[johnlives4christ]

dunno. i know the stocks wouldnt need to be papered though so it must be the gun that it's intended for. if the stocks had to be papered then i wouldnt have seen them for sale through the mail. just like i dont see silencers for sale through the mail. it would make more sense to paper the stock though because it could be switched from gun to gun just like a silencer.

why dontcha ask the company that is selling them what the requirements are to use it legally.

[Alpo]

I've never seen them for sale, anywhere, before.

At one time, Sportsmans Guide was selling a "Ruger Charger Conversion Kit", where you could turn your 10/22 into a Charger. That was making a SBR. I received my catalog, and went to the website. The kit was there. Went back to the website the next day. Gone. Not "there and marked 'sold out' ". Gone. Like it never existed. Apparently ATF had a word with them.

Normally, in this country anyway, if something is sold, with the potential of making NFA stuff, there will be a little disclaimer in the ad - "All NFA Rules Apply". I didn't see that, on this one. It's puzzling.

I still think you should write ATF.

[cakes]

If you put the stock on a pistol, you just built a short barreled rifle. You can file a Form 1 before you do it. You will be registering the pistol serial number. If you have more than 1 glock, you should store the SBR components separately and never install the stock on a pistol that wasn't registered as a SBR. To do so would be in violation of the NFA. Just having the stock and the pistol in the same room would make you in possession of a SBR.

The Form 1 build will cost you $200.

If you have questions regarding the legality of something you should ask the ATF, not the store or manufacturer. And also keep in mind that ignorance of the law is not a defense.

I have fired a glock with the shoulder stock attached and can tell you that it is a fun little SBR. You just need to decide if it is worth the price plus the tax stamp.

[MutedUziel]

Since Zahal is based in Israel I don't think I would trust there knowledge of ATF rules here. I think I'll write my locale ATF Monday.
Maybe if I have to paper the gun I could find a G18. :D Two birds one automatic stone! (Double tax stamp though) :eek:
Anyone know a GOOD class III dealer in Southern Indiana?

[Alpo]

Since Zahal is based in Israel I don't think I would trust there knowledge of ATF rules here. I think I'll write my locale ATF Monday.
Maybe if I have to paper the gun I could find a G18. :D Two birds one automatic stone! (Double tax stamp though) :eek:
Anyone know a GOOD class III dealer in Southern Indiana?

I don't think you'd need two stamps. I have SMGs that are much shorter than 16" barrels, and they don't also need SBR stamps.

I know a guy that has a papered trigger group, for all three calibers, and his MP5 is also papered as a SBR. When he has the trigger group in it, it's an MP5, and the MP5 paper is all he needs, but when he puts the trigger in a HK91, turning it into a G3, the MP5, with its now-semi trigger, becomes a SBR HK94.

In the case you're speaking of, though, I think you can just get the 18, and put a stock on it. Being a SMG, it doesn't matter. BUT, I'd check with ATF, first.

[johnlives4christ]

alpo. that is one thing i seen, sportsmans guide very recently had the h k trigger groups for sale, had an all nfa rules apply with it. i could buy one of them since i dont have any of the h k things to put it on. then.... one day if i got an hk91 i could have the trigger group papered and use it on my rifle.

guess im thinking ahead... those trigger groups wont be around forever

[cakes]

alpo. that is one thing i seen, sportsmans guide very recently had the h k trigger groups for sale, had an all nfa rules apply with it. i could buy one of them since i dont have any of the h k things to put it on. then.... one day if i got an hk91 i could have the trigger group papered and use it on my rifle.

guess im thinking ahead... those trigger groups wont be around forever


Be careful with this one. You can't get 'the trigger group papered'. Those parts are sold as replacement parts for registered NFA guns. The rules are very restrictive for building machine guns. You can't build one for your personal use. If you want a machine gun you can buy one that was built before 1986.

[Alpo]

No you can't. If a machine gun wasn't papered before May of 1986, you can't have it. You cannot paper one, now. Thank you, Ronnie Regan. Firearm Owner's Protection Act. Got us a lot of stuff. Let military surplus come into the country. Did away with having to sign the book when you bought ammo. Allowed you to buy ammo through the mail. Came up with the "safe passage" law. But they stuck that little piece on there also - NO MORE NEW MACHINE GUNS.

You're young. You don't remember what it was like, living under GCA68.