Time Ripe for 3rd. Party?

[the morning light]

Time Ripe For An Independent Populist Movement
January 7, 5:30 PMLA Nonpartisan ExaminerRobert Stark







A new poll by NBC/Wall Street Journal shows that a hypothetical Tea Party would beat out both the Republican and Democratic Party's in a three-way matchup. According to the poll, more than 40 percent of Americans would support the Tea Party movement, compared to a 35 percent for Democrats and 28 percent for Republicans." The Tea Party movement does not have an official political platform but provides a voice for angry populist sentiment against the government and political establishment. However their is concern that the movement has been hijacked by Neocons and partisan Republicans the same way the anti-war movement was by democratic partisans during the Bush administration.

In a new documentary about the tea part movement activist Nate Wiggim said, "I think a tea party foreign policy would probably be none. A tea party foreign policy would be working on getting the U.S.A. back together… Our economy is in disarray. I don't think this is a time to worry about foreign policy when our country is about to collapse. It's time to take care of ourselves. It was a foolish decision to go to Afghanistan in the first place… [while] our own country's borders are left open," continued Wiggim. "We have all this globalization. We don't produce any of our own products, we always import everything. We need to focus on ourselves before we worry about any other country's foreign issues."

The 2006 and 2008 elections were referendums against the Bush administration and Republican Congress over the Wars in Iraq, corruption, and reckless spending. However the democrats interpreted it as a mandate for their agenda. Now Americas are just as fed up with Obama and the democratic congress. There has not been a situation in recent history were the American public strongly rejected both major political parties. Perhaps the closest situation was when Ross Perot ran as an independent on a Populist platform and earned 19% of the vote.

Obama's promised change but his policies are not that much different than Bush's. He renewed the Patriot Act, continues deficit spending, fails to secure our borders and pushes for amnesty, and continues the two wars in the middle east. Americans have been lied to that the democrats are liberals and the republicans are conservatives. We have two parties that believe in globalization over national sovereignty, favor wall street and multi-national corporations over the middle class, have no regard for our constitution, and support an interventionist foreign policy that is not in our nations interest.

Americans are now realizing that both parties have failed to provide the solutions to fix our country but the political system is rigged against third parties. However by working within the Republican party Ron Paul's movement successfully taps into this sentiment and has influenced the direction of the GOP. There are several candidates who are part of his movement running for office this year, including his son Rand Paul who is now leading in the Republican primary for Senate in Kentucky.


Former Congressmen Traficant who also has a growing following said "there's a group out of Washington, and in several cities around the country, that want to bring back the old Reform Party, combine it with the tea party and bring the Libertarians in and everybody, and they want me to run as an independent for president." Former CNN pundit Lou Dobbs, who is a self described independent populist and advocate for the middle class has also been mentioned as potential candidate for 2012. Dobbs said, "I will be in the public arena and engaged," and that his areas of interest are, "Illegal immigration, international trade, job creation, and economic growth."

While independent candidates have long had a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected, if Obama's approval ratings continue to plummet and the republicans fail to provide and alternative, 2012 may provide an opportunity. The Internet has changed the political scene by breaking the monopoly that the corporate media has long had over political discourse. While getting elected as a third party is still near imposable, we will likely see change within the existing two parties such as with Ron Paul's movement.

[hogger129]

Ron Paul 2012.

[Terry_P]

Just what we need another bunch of Ross Perot ego maniac's to hand the election to the liberal democrats. What we need are true conservatives looking to downsize government and cut this spending spiral so that our grandkids actually have a future.

Rino's need not apply.

[predictatv]

No, I strongly disagree. The Tea Party movement has definitive value. It shows this America still carries it's Judeo-Christian and individual liberties dear.

Ross Perot, I'm sorry to say, handed the election to Clinton. Just as Teddy Roosevelt handed the election of 1912 to Woodrow Wilson. Just as the election of 1948 went to Truman, etc.

Now whether, or not, Mr Perot had his ego stroked into running by Democratic Party double agents? To insure Mr. Clinton's victory? That's another story. The effect was the same. We can speculate all we want about how a second TR term may have led to Imperial Germany still existing? (ie no WWII in a nutshell)
Gov Dewey defusing the Cold War. Mr Perot bringing about a new era of liberty and prosperity. While destroying the Arab terrorists early. etc, etc. Ad Nausem...These are all alternate history food fodder....The reality is simple to see. Third parties lead to the defeat of the very party it split from. Each and every time.

Is there not already enough evidence of that? We've 3rd parties galore. From the Green National Socialists to Libertarian. Left and right. Pick one. None have a chance at national offices.

The Tea Party movement is a direct result of the socialist/communist assault of the Tree of Liberty. An anti-virus borne out of both parties. Our mentors and forefathers before us saw the rise of communism and it's fascist cousin. Warned us of it. Communism/Socialism/Fascism are all flavors of the same evil. An elite modern re-invention of feudalism. We can point at the Great Society of LBJ and say "Here's where today's troubles began." We'd be wrong. This evil started in the late 19th century and has grown larger with each passing year. Senator Goldwater's 1964 campaign was the last loud outcry against it. He fairly and squarely warned us. Read some of his campaign literature. What it forewarned is precisely what we see today.

Read our modern history books. They softly build a historical case for the victory of socialism now. Even go so far as to refer to the USSR as "that thing calling itself socialism." That the seeds of the USSR's fall were laid by President Carter. That capitalism and liberty are actually in opposition. Our enemies of Liberty have hijacked most of our education system, media and legal system. Socialism infects out nation like a fungus. The Democratic Party may as well change it's name to the International Socialist Party. That way we could truthfully call them ITZI'S. Instead of Nazi's.

OK, back to the idea...... The Tea party movement needs to gel into a movement that rips out the ITZI influence from the bottom up. A renewal of values, law and liberty. Rekindling the truth of what this Nation is and what it stands for. Replacing the educational materials and teachers in our schools. Replacing activist journalism with truth in journalism. IE Edward R Murrow standards. Replacing each and every policy wonk and politico with men and women of clear vision and values. Whether they be a Democratic wonk? O, a Republican one. The Tea Party movement is built of folks from both parties. Each person needs to clearly understand that. Which means it's a universal revolt against the current set of culture and politics.

Use the Tea party as an anti virus in both political parties, our education system and culture. A Kulturkampf, to borrow from Bismarck, if you will. Because that's what it truthfully is.

Narrowing it to just another 3rd Party is a guarantee. We'll live to see our grandchildren grateful to government for their new "freedoms." Where they're convinced the feudal slavery they endure is Liberty. Where the old USA is a distant fading memory of EVIL. Take it further down into the future? Anyone remember the movie Logan's Run? Where the socialist dream is a full blown nightmare? The USA an unrecognized pile of wreckage hidden from view by a domed city of lies?

Nothing pleases a tyrant more than when his subjects are grateful for the slavery they endure under him. It makes his rule an easy and enduring one.

"I'll not let a piece of paper come between me and my subjects!" King Fredrick of Prussia.

[rentalguy1]

If there is a Tea Party candidate, I will vote for them. I will NEVER vote for a Republican AGAIN! They are ALL RINOS. None of them are worth a plugged nickel, and it is time to send a message to ALL OF THEM.


GO HOME!!! YOU HAVE DESTROYED US AS A NATION! THIS GOES TO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!!!

[PharmrJohn]

I want Reagan back.

[killbuck]

I think it's too easly for a 3rd party. Unless we had some real well known people in it. No one is going to vote for a no-name, no-platform, person just to vote out the other partys. You'd throw your vote away.

That 3rd party has to have people with experience and knowledge. Not to many people to mind just now.

killbuck
........
My choices early in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference. :Harry Truman

[Terry_P]

Let me clarify one point as ptv is putting words in my mouth, I didn't say the tea party movement doesn't have value I think is is an outstanding example of grass roots politics. I don't think it's value is as a 3rd party because that will ultimately fail. I don't believe all Republicans are rino's or that all dem's are necessarily bad. We may go thru a painful period whereby a third party knocks off the rino's and hands the election to the lib's as in the NY congressional race. The ultimate goal is to elect conservatives and to get rid of the Obozo's, Pelosi's, Feinstein's, along with the McLame's, Collins, and the assortment of other hogs at the trough. What we need to do is unite under a candidate(s) that is a true conservative. There will be a lot of "Johnny come lately's" that are phonies like Romney, Huckabee, Gingrich that mouth the words but will not reduce the size of government. They need to go back to their day job. We need to act within our own districts one at a time to elect conservatives and 2010 is the time to begin.

[artabr]

If there is a Tea Party candidate, I will vote for them. I will NEVER vote for a Republican AGAIN! They are ALL RINOS. None of them are worth a plugged nickel, and it is time to send a message to ALL OF THEM.


GO HOME!!! YOU HAVE DESTROYED US AS A NATION! THIS GOES TO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!!!

We actually have some very good Republicans representing us here in Louisiana. That would include Sen. Vitter.

http://www.vitter.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=IssueStatements.View&Issue_id=c4c2fe77-96d4-4f03-9b7f-71e1c6f5e4cb

http://www.scalise.house.gov/list/press/la01_scalise/pr_080516.shtml

Of our 7 Federal Reps. 6 are Republican. 3 of them are M.D.'s who are fighting Obama Care.

I'm not saying the Republicans are without fault. As a matter of fact I posted about the need to boot out Rep. Joseph Cao (R) La. 4th dist. on this forum just last night.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=72766




Art

[rentalguy1]

You guys vote for who you want, and I'll vote for who I want. I stood up, wrote a blank check to my country, and earned my right to vote. It's not wasting my vote if it's cast for the person that I want. In my mind, it is time to send a message to ALL politicians that it is WE THE PEOPLE who are in charge here, and not them. The only way to get this through to them is to send them home to think about it for a while.

[walien]

This would be great. You could shorten it from the Tea Party movement to just the Tea Party. They could just adopt one of the Canadian Hard Rock band's songs as their theme song.

A third party in this country would be amazing. It would provide some actual choice and stop people from being so blindly polarized. I don't think that the TPM's ideas are fully thought out, but any third party would be beneficial.

[Terry_P]

You guys vote for who you want, and I'll vote for who I want. I stood up, wrote a blank check to my country, and earned my right to vote. It's not wasting my vote if it's cast for the person that I want. In my mind, it is time to send a message to ALL politicians that it is WE THE PEOPLE who are in charge here, and not them. The only way to get this through to them is to send them home to think about it for a while.

I think the only thing we disagree on is how to get to the same place. I personally think term limits are the answer. Give congress 3 terms and the senate two. I find it hard to believe that the founding fathers envisioned someone would be in the senate for life. They were mostly gentlemen farmers that served out of a sense of duty and then had to go home to take care of their business. The ones in there now only care about making money. Thats it, they could care about the country, constituents only about money to insure getting re-elected and to enrich themselves. Some like Bill Clinton have broader horizons: money and "the babes".

[Artemus]

I wish there was a 3rd party that called themselves the Common Sense Party.

[bcj1755]

I want Reagan back.

You're not the only one, not by a long shot.:(

Of course, at this point he'd be a zombie:eek: and we already have Blinky the Zombie in DC:eek::eek::eek::eek:

[rentalguy1]

I think the only thing we disagree on is how to get to the same place. I personally think term limits are the answer. Give congress 3 terms and the senate two.


We're in total agreement on this. Right down to the amount of terms. I hope you realize that NONE of our currently seated electorate would vote for term limits, though. That's the reason that they ALL have to go home. Get a new batch of congress critters in and mandate that they either vote in term limits, or they go home in the next election.

[guns4life]

Agrees with Hogger 129 GO RON PAUL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the morning light]

The Constitution Party is small but pretty well established and more like the conservatives of old.

[artabr]

I'd love to see term limits be enacted.

I'd love to see something else take place.
A couple of months ago, on his radio show, Glenn Beck brought up an interesting concept.

With todays technology in communications and the availability of teleconferencing, why do we even need to send our reps. to Washington, D.C.
Why can't they do their work in their home state and have their hearings, committee meetings & votes over the internet.

I understand & realize that occasionally trips to D.C. would be required for bill signing and such and would not have a problem with these trips.

Think about this:

We, the people, would have much greater access to our senators & congressmen. They would hear our voices, not the voices of some K street lobbyist.

The influence of big business, lawyers, lobbyiest, national party hacks, et al, is decreased.

We can keep a closer eye on all of those overseas boondogglel trips that they like to take so often.

As a bone to the libs, this will cut down on the politicans carbon footprint.
It might even cut down on a lot of their hot air.


Just a thought.



Art

[Doorgunner]

Perhaps we don't need parties at all. Howabout just voting for the right people.

[mncarpenter]

.. The Tea Party movement has definitive value. It shows this America still carries it's Judeo-Christian and individual liberties dear.

OK, back to the idea...... The Tea party movement needs to gel into a movement that rips out the ITZI influence from the bottom up. A renewal of values, law and liberty. Rekindling the truth of what this Nation is and what it stands for. Replacing the educational materials and teachers in our schools. Replacing activist journalism with truth in journalism. IE Edward R Murrow standards. Replacing each and every policy wonk and politico with men and women of clear vision and values. Whether they be a Democratic wonk? O, a Republican one. The Tea Party movement is built of folks from both parties. Each person needs to clearly understand that. Which means it's a universal revolt against the current set of culture and politics.

Use the Tea party as an anti virus in both political parties, our education system and culture...
I like your way of thinking about this.If the so -called "Tea Party( or any 3rd "conservative" group) would form into an actual cohesive group of activists that would actually work to expose the corruption and unconstitutional activities in Washington, and state gov'ts, maybe by 2012/2016 it would have a track record of accomplishments that would establish it as a serious contender in a political race. Work to get local officials/politicians elected that make a difference at the city,county,state levels. Then start thinking about the "Big Kahuna". As it is, the general population sees the TPM as as just another bunch of nuts.
You guys vote for who you want, and I'll vote for who I want. I stood up, wrote a blank check to my country, and earned my right to vote. It's not wasting my vote if it's cast for the person that I want. In my mind, it is time to send a message to ALL politicians that it is WE THE PEOPLE who are in charge here, and not them. The only way to get this through to them is to send them home to think about it for a while.
Voting third party now certainly shows dissatisfaction for the status quo and you are correct in that you have a right to vote as you see fit. I also believe that we have the responsibility to vote in a manner that will actually have an impact.

[Big ugly]

We need a whole new governing body. Impeach the whole damn lot of em. Then sentance every one of them to hang in the town squares where they are from. Then saction their families to to pay back all the debts that their spawns had created. Then publically Kane them for beeing related to the evil SOB's. Then put their sorry hides to work to see how we normal blue collers out here have to make a living. Then take their homes and their jobs away and put their sorry @$$es on the street homeless with no jobs and no money and see how they like it. We dont need a third party. We need to clean house and show the bastards we mean buisness.

[hogger129]

Does anybody here think the Republican party will nominate a real conservative? I mean someone that wants to cut spending and holds to the true values of the Republican party? Like the guy above said - what we need is another Ronald Reagan. That's one reason I liked Ron Paul and one reason I like the libertarian party. I thought Paul was more of a conservative than any of the Republicans that ran. If you can get the Republicans to nominate someone like Paul, I think the Republicans would have a landslide victory.

[hogger129]

I'd love to see term limits be enacted.

I'd love to see something else take place.
A couple of months ago, on his radio show, Glenn Beck brought up an interesting concept.

With todays technology in communications and the availability of teleconferencing, why do we even need to send our reps. to Washington, D.C.
Why can't they do their work in their home state and have their hearings, committee meetings & votes over the internet.

I understand & realize that occasionally trips to D.C. would be required for bill signing and such and would not have a problem with these trips.

Think about this:

We, the people, would have much greater access to our senators & congressmen. They would hear our voices, not the voices of some K street lobbyist.

The influence of big business, lawyers, lobbyiest, national party hacks, et al, is decreased.

We can keep a closer eye on all of those overseas boondogglel trips that they like to take so often.

As a bone to the libs, this will cut down on the politicans carbon footprint.
It might even cut down on a lot of their hot air.


Just a thought.



Art

I agree. These days when you write your Congressmen, do you think they actually take the time to read your letter?

[Big ugly]

Excuse me for beeing young and possibly a fool but what would be the advantage to Electing another Career politician who has no clue as to what the American Public Needs. What advantage would Ron Paul have over any other moron we elect Republican or Democrate. Now What is Ron Pauls personal agenda gonna be. Undoing Obama's wrongs, Stimulating the economy, The good of our nation, BLAH BLAH BLAH! We dont need another career politician. Another Idiot in a $5000 suit pretendning to have the cure to what ails the nation. The truth has already showed its ugly face and now we are gonna support some one else who dont have a clue. Nope, Not on my childrens future thank you. We need a reform, a change in which our political leaders think. A diffrent type of leader. Not another Bullchit career politician with his own personal agenda and views. Even Reagan was guilty of shoving his agenda right down our throats. Dont belive go get one of his records and sit through it. He wasnt no better at runnin our country than Slick Willie or the Bush Idiots.

[rentalguy1]

If Ron Paul were to get elected, the terrorists would have a landslide victory. He would let them ride roughshod right over us.

[red14]

A third part is a great idea, but hasn't worked in over a hundred years. The Republican Party needs a Conservative candidate. The closest one, now, is Mitt Romney. We have 2 years to find a candidate for President.

If the health care (Adolf) is approved, there will be a list of every (Representative and Senator) candidate who votes for it. Kick (vote) every one out. Then go from there.

The system is not going to change in the near future.

[Terry_P]

Red:
As gov of Mass Romney signed the state assault weapons ban. He is an intelligent and articulate guy but not a conservative on gun issues. I don't know enough about Thune or Pawlenty or Jindahl to make a decision. Right now I think Sarah could fit the bill but she comes with McCain stink on her.

[hogger129]

Excuse me for beeing young and possibly a fool but what would be the advantage to Electing another Career politician who has no clue as to what the American Public Needs. What advantage would Ron Paul have over any other moron we elect Republican or Democrate. Now What is Ron Pauls personal agenda gonna be. Undoing Obama's wrongs, Stimulating the economy, The good of our nation, BLAH BLAH BLAH! We dont need another career politician. Another Idiot in a $5000 suit pretendning to have the cure to what ails the nation. The truth has already showed its ugly face and now we are gonna support some one else who dont have a clue. Nope, Not on my childrens future thank you. We need a reform, a change in which our political leaders think. A diffrent type of leader. Not another Bullchit career politician with his own personal agenda and views. Even Reagan was guilty of shoving his agenda right down our throats. Dont belive go get one of his records and sit through it. He wasnt no better at runnin our country than Slick Willie or the Bush Idiots.

What's wrong with Ron Paul? Is it because he's third party? The thing I dislike about the Republicans is that they are too far away from their conservative roots. I want a party that will cut spending, one that will protect my gun rights, one that supports small business. I can honestly say Bush was 100x better than Obama, but what makes you think that the next Republican will be any different than Bush? Bush increased spending alot too. Bush handed these big businesses bailouts. What exactly DID he do to protect our gun rights? He didn't do anything to restrict them, but he didn't do anything to protect them either. I wasn't a huge fan of his USA Patriot Act either. If we elect a Republican, I want a really conservative one. And what's wrong with electing a "career politician?" Aren't all of these choices we're given "career politicians?" Ron Paul was a doctor. I think he has a whole lot better understanding of the healthcare "situation" than does Obama. Why not read about the libertarians? I did and that's why I support them.

We certainly can all agree we don't want another Democrat, right? What I don't want is another "Bush" with an aggressive foreign policy that caters to the interests of "big business." I don't like the idea that we go exporting our political ideology on every country in the world. If Ron Paul is weak against terrorism, then fine. Arm every citizen in the country so that when these people come to get us, they'll be met with a rifle behind every door. I don't like how Bush passed the USA Patriot Act where they can basically go into your home, take what they want, without a warrant because the USA Patriot Act gives them the authority to. Bush was just as respectful to the Constitution as Obama is. They would wipe their behind with it if they could.

Why would libertarians being in charge be a bad thing? From the book I read about their party, they are for downsizing government, they are pro-gun, basically - they have common sense. They don't sit here behind the podium like the Dems and Repubs and promise you this and that while they stab the voters in the back.

[hogger129]

If Ron Paul were to get elected, the terrorists would have a landslide victory. He would let them ride roughshod right over us.

How would he do that? You don't think that he would do something to stop them? He might pull the troops out, yes, but oh well. I for one would rather see our troops come home alive than to see thousands more coming home in body bags. Just because he isn't one of these egomaniac Republican/Democrats that think we should export our political agendas around the world doesn't mean he's a bad guy does it? Even IF we beat the terrorists, what would come out of it? Just to say we're better? What good did Vietnam do us? What good did winning World War II do us? Nobody ever wins in war. So just because he MIGHT be soft on terror doesn't make him any less of a good choice for president.

[rentalguy1]

How would he do that? You don't think that he would do something to stop them? He might pull the troops out, yes, but oh well. I for one would rather see our troops come home alive than to see thousands more coming home in body bags. Just because he isn't one of these egomaniac Republican/Democrats that think we should export our political agendas around the world doesn't mean he's a bad guy does it? Even IF we beat the terrorists, what would come out of it? Just to say we're better? What good did Vietnam do us? What good did winning World War II do us? Nobody ever wins in war. So just because he MIGHT be soft on terror doesn't make him any less of a good choice for president.

Congratulations! You just became the fourth person on my ignore list. I have no time for people of your mindset. YOU ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO GOT US HERE TO BEGIN WITH!

[hogger129]

Congratulations! You just became the fourth person on my ignore list. I have no time for people of your mindset. YOU ARE EXACTLY THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO GOT US HERE TO BEGIN WITH!

:confused:

What "mindset?"

[millwright]

If you want to continue the Democratic Socialist Movement, by all means try to 'gin up' a third party !! I suspect the Democrats will even help !!

OTOH, if you're serious about 'winning' in 2010/12, you need to start influencing your local/state/regional GOP types to wrest control of the party from the current "Dem-lite" ilk with their hands on the tiller. >MW







11

[techoca]

Just what we need another bunch of Ross Perot ego maniac's to hand the election to the liberal democrats. What we need are true conservatives looking to downsize government and cut this spending spiral so that our grandkids actually have a future.

Rino's need not apply.

1+
Tell it like it is. How soon people forget; anyone remember how Clinton was elected?

[AL MOUNT]

If you want to continue the Democratic Socialist Movement,
by all means try to 'gin up' a third party !! I suspect the Democrats will even help !!

OTOH, if you're serious about 'winning' in 2010/12,
you need to start influencing your local/state/regional GOP
types to wrest control of the party from the current "Dem-lite" ilk
with their hands on the tiller. >MW



I totally agree with everything MW has said.

[rentalguy1]

Yep...them republicrats really listen to their constituents...don't they. Anybody remember the liberal they put up for election in NY last year? Anybody remember the rampant spending under W? Anybody remember all the bailouts for the bankers and the auto companies? Short memory syndrome is rampant. The message of last spring and summer did not fall on deaf ears. I was at the rallies. I remember the sentiments. What happened?

[bilbo1907]

You better be listening to Terry p.There's nothing the commies would like more than to see a third party(tea party)at the next election.It's their only hope.Tha tea party movement needs to continue(I've participated )in moving the Republican Party back.We need to reunite at the next stop sign and take hard right.Quit watching the polls and do the math!! Bill

[graehaven]

It's too late.

You think these people now in power are going to relinquish control just because some election said so? That's naive.

There are dozens of Executive orders in place RIGHT NOW that will allow one man to seize total control in the event of a national emergency.

That's what you want to watch for. There WILL be a crisis event of some kind (that they will allow to happen) and that is when they will put into motion their final solution. This has been planned for decades. There is NO going back.

Elections? Bahhhh! It's too late for that.

[rentalguy1]

It's too late.

You think these people now in power are going to relinquish control just because some election said so? That's naive.

There are dozens of Executive orders in place RIGHT NOW that will allow one man to seize total control in the event of a national emergency.

That's what you want to watch for. There WILL be a crisis event of some kind (that they will allow to happen) and that is when they will put into motion their final solution. This has been planned for decades. There is NO going back.

Elections? Bahhhh! It's too late for that.

This is more closely in line with that of my own...

[the morning light]

If the House and Senate and the presidency go Republican do you really think anything will change? It has happened before and it was business as usual!

[the morning light]

Maybe term limits would help the situation! One six year term in the Senate and three two year terms in the House! Remember the article by former Senator Fritz Hollings? He said when he had strong opposition he had to raise $32,ooo a week, every week so he could get re-elected. Term limits would eliminate most of the money raising and lobbyists power might not be so great.

Nation wide Tea parties once a month might keep them on their toes. It seems most of the politricksters do not like demonstrations, especially if the people turn out in numbers.

[ampaterry]

Palin was under a LOT of stress.
I understand that, and truly sympathize with her.

Then she resigned.

She is therefore seen as not being able to handle the pressure of office.
Rightly or wrongly, that is the way it will be spun -
As a national candidate, she committed suicide with that move.

if we, as conservatives, expect a SNOWBALLS chance of getting a conservative into office, we absolutely do NOT want to split the conservative vote by forming a third party.

We need to swing the GOP back to the right.

The third party idea has merit, though: Perhaps we can convince some ULTRA liberals that BO is not moving into socialism fast enough, and convince THEM to start a third party. Splitting the liberal vote would be to OUR advantage -

[rentalguy1]

1. Term limits are definitely needed. They are one of the only things that can save us from the political corruption that has plagued us for a century.

2. Palin is NOT the person we need in the highest office in the land. She is a flake, and a quitter. Being the mayor of BFE, Alaska, and then the governor of one of the least populous states in the nation does not qualify her to be president. If she was more intelligent and well-read, politically savvy, and had a better track record in her service, then I would say maybe. Make no mistake, though, she is a heavy hitter in the political scene. If she had two terms in the Senate under her belt, she would become a shoe-in for the presidency. As it stands right now, she is not ready, and when the time came to pull the lever, most of the country would agree and not vote for her.

3. We do need a conservative in the White House, but that doesn't mean a Republican. We've been there, done that, and have the national debt and casualty lists to prove it. There are no REAL conservatives in the party at this current time. There are some that come very close to the mark, but after you scratch the surface, you realize that they really are only interested in getting re-elected. I will agree that there are a few republicans that are decent. Two in my state, Zach Wamp and Phil Roe, come to mind, but that in no way means that I want them to be in the White House.

4. At a certain point, Tea Parties become the same as a UN resolution. They are empty words. Actions from this group is what is needed to bring about real change. When the other parties feel the sting of loss to Tea Party candidates in their congressional districts, then we will begin to see real change. It will take more than a handful, though. We need a few dozen seats in the hands of this new party to get their attention. I sincerely hope that they begin to run candidates, though, because if they don't, the movement will be nothing more than empty words that fall on deaf ears in Washington.

[graehaven]

Jack Ryan for president! :D:rolleyes:

[45nut]

Sarah Palin 2012. 3rd Party or GOP, she will whip Obozo's ass.

[larryg]

How about a 3rd party (http://goooh.com/Home.aspx) of sorts for at least the house. This is a move to replace all 535 reps with a party that is not tied to an certain philosophy but to there local voters. This also removes all outside funding and candidates have to declare there views on a lot of different items and stick to them or be removed from office. The candidate can not be an established politician and must agree to term limits. It is an interesting concept but not sure how far they can go.

[keepitlow]

I joined a Tea party online forum in Ohio Valley. After 3 or 4 posts they banned me. Was run by a power hungry lady it seems. She only liked to hear herself talk. Said I was a 'trouble maker' for having an opinion.

Had to laugh...didn't the tea parties back in the day cause trouble? Lets hope this lady never makes it into politics.

Anyway, tea baggers are all bark and no bite. Develop some self sufficiency and organize a citizens union to strike the corrupt political system...they you will be really making tea my friends.

As far as 3rd party? Could we do much worse than being fed our diet of ****? Sure we could theoretically do worse, but we could always go back to the old diet of scumbag reps and dems.

The politicians learned a long time ago that the 'Domesticated American' is impotent when it comes to controlling political policy. Controlling policy take great amount of bribe money. And you guys can hardly make your house payment, so not much bribing potential there.

Consumer strikes en masse could change many things. But the politicians have a way of forgetting and going back to old ways. As such, it would take continual strikes to keep the knuckleheads in DC going down the right path.

After all 70% of the economy is based on the consumer.

But such strike would take a measure of self-sufficiency that 99.9% of the modern day people lack. They can't miss one paycheck or will be behind on their mortgage or If they are unable to go to market for a few days they will starve.

Change was the buzzword for 2008 elections....vote for change!

Well, lets be honest...in politics substantive change is only paid lip service. Our whole system fights change. And if perchance some change does come about it is quickly squelched every 4 years by the new incoming administration and we backslide.

One candidate may have better spin on the question - so you vote for him or her. But when it comes down to it - politicians are pretty much all lying rhetoricians...so the ignorant public just votes for the best liar!

Lets look at an example. Pres Carter was gung -ho on renewables so he installed solar panels on the white house roof. Reagan comes in and removes the solar panels.

Instead of keeping any good gov workers that really work for the citizens. These folks must go and the current political deity puts their cronies and high dollar contributors in power every 4 years.

If one party is in the white house and another party is in the congress most of the time is spent battling each other and trying to make your enemies look bad.

Anyone that aspires to go into politics has a desire to control others and make a grab for power and money. Replacing one piece of **** with another piece of **** does nothing to remove the stink in DC.

Politicians are the lowest of the low - hypocrites and haggard shells of humans that spin webs of deceit to entrap their prey with so many lies you politicians dream up to screw the American public.

OK, maybe they are a little higher on the cesspool ladder than a child rapist that kills the kid after raping them. But lets be clear about what politicians are, they are filthy scumbags

As the dieoff approaches we will still no doubt be putting all our hopes in the next political deity that tells us he or she can transform our world.

http://dieoff.org/

[cjh7819]

Does anybody here think the Republican party will nominate a real conservative? I mean someone that wants to cut spending and holds to the true values of the Republican party? Like the guy above said - what we need is another Ronald Reagan. That's one reason I liked Ron Paul and one reason I like the libertarian party. I thought Paul was more of a conservative than any of the Republicans that ran. If you can get the Republicans to nominate someone like Paul, I think the Republicans would have a landslide victory.

Alan Keyes was every bit as conservative as Ron Paul. The thing I did not really like about Ron Paul was that he was an isolationist. In some areas that is a good thing like closing the borders and saying screw you to the U.N.
But isolationism is not a good thing when you are fighting a war and you just bring everybody back home regardless if the war was justified or not. Yes the war could have/should have been won by now but when you let the politically correct idiots in all it does is drag on and on.
Isolationism is not good for economies. Trade with other countries is a good thing and brings prosperity because you can produce more goods and ship them to countries that cannot, which creates jobs for us.

Isolationism keeps jobs artificially low by capping the amount of jobs and products that are required in a country. If I can only produce a set amount of product how do I increase my business if everybody already has my product in the U.S.
Just like farming we can produce more corn, beans, cattle, pigs, chicken, etc. etc. etc. than the U.S. can eat. We either sell it to some other country or we leave it here to rot which in turn will ruin the agriculture sector in the U.S.
It would be the same for every other business sector as well.

Now I am not saying that we should be shipping in products that we already have an abundance of. As in a true free trade agreement. We also need to get rid of the green nazis and the unions that just drive up cost of production and drive businesses out.

If the republican party would nominate Alan Keyes we would have a true conservative. I really don't understand the republican parties distaste for him.

[keepitlow]

Let's say the dream of the tea party would come true and they would get a tea bagger prez in office. The house and senate is run by the good old boys (dems and reps) and would not work with the tea prez. It would just be one big brawl day in day out.

Now, if you could change the house and senate to tea baggers, in quantities enough to get things done, then you may have something workable.

And, most important, start returning the 'power to the people' by having national votes on most of the legislation the tea baggers propose. This is the only way you would have a chance to change the political status quo. (But I think this is all fantasy and wishful thinking myself.)

But, don't be under the delusion of thinking that tea baggers will fix all our woes. You must accept we have built a defective model for long term population support in the world and very much in America.

I've heard people on TV say they just want their old America back? America's golden age was back in the 50's. Yes, it was a marvelous time to have lived. But alas, it is far gone and never to return...so start getting used to it.

China is positioned to take over as the number one world super power and by mid century Hispanics will be a projected 33% of the pop in the US of A...that is 1 out of 3 people will be Hispanics.

Now, I got nothing against Hispanics. They are hard working and nice people in general. I was born in L.A. and lived there for 35 years, so being outnumbered by Hispanics is nothing new to me. Last time I was in L.A. I thought I was in Mexico. I just bring this stat up to underscore that fact that our world is always evolving...and flexibility is the hallmark of a good survivalist.

But, whether we are #1 or #2 in the world and irrespective of our favorite national food is hamburgers or Tacos - we should still work in a direction to run our country under the principles America was founded on to the best of our abilities.

Here is what is wrong with the world we have built...

Our world is upside down, when the right way to s sustainable future will bring our world down. The only thing to do to keep the Ponzi scheme going is to do just the opposite of prudent advice.

What would happen to our economy if we took the advice and did as this reworked 'victory' poster from WW II suggested?

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/keepitlow456/victorygarden.jpg

What would happen is our country would COLLAPSE!

IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE TO DO A 180...Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country. Since our economy if fueled 70% by the consumer, we must stay in debt and consume by any means necessary to keep the Ponzi scheme from collapsing.

We must make shoddy products that self-destruct quickly - so new products are in constant demand to keep the workforce of drones working. All the while squandering natural resources, but we are increasing the business of the landfills.

We must not grow our own food. We must buy poisonous food from chemical laden farms. Our concrete jungles could never hope to allow anything else from their inhabitants.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/keepitlow456/DSC02545pot.jpg

Would you rather eat an embalmed potato or a live potato? The store bought 'Green Giant' red potato vs home grown KB potato. Both stored for 7 months in my root cellar.

And we must squander fossil fuels as fast as possible to keep the economy booming. What would all the tourists traps from Las Vegas to Florida do without the travelers? And the multitude of business that depend on travel along the pilgrimage routes?

On an a more global level, lets say everyone becomes voluntary simplicity and frugal squirrel devotees. We recycle, reuse, repair and just say NO to buying more crap. If we stop buying all the stuff that America imports from China - who keeps the 1.3 billion plus people in China from starving, so they do not go back to old ways of trying to take over the world?

We can see we have created a time bomb. Even the highest level brainiac economists can't fix what ails us.

Our whole system is based on an unsustainable model that will eventually collapse no matter how much money that is printed up by the Fed. (...they don't even need to print money nowadays, all that needs to be done to create billions is to magnetize a silicon chip!)

Tony Benn's take on things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related


Now, let's take a look at how our Ponzi schemed world was built...

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/keepitlow456/popchart.gif

We can see the population was pretty steady over the centuries. People lived within natures boundaries. They grew their food, burned wood for fuel and ate the game and fish nature provided...until the age of fossil fuels.

Whale oil or wood was the prevalent fuel up to that time. As whale oil was running out, coal and liquid coal (crude oil) came on board. Then petroleum / natural gas based fertilizers made cheap food possible.

Fossil fuels allowed people to move from an agrarian from of life to an urbanized city lifestyle that removed all the hard and dirty work of growing and producing one's own food. Fossil fusels also made possible many areas of life extending improvements to humans. And people spread to all corners of the planet and flourished...but by an artificial and non sustainable means.

What happens when something is running at an unsustainable pace?

It must slow down to a sustainable pace - if it is to keep moving forward steadily and sustainably.

It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But seven billion people can't burn the trees!

When we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process. Now renewable energy will replace some of fossil fuels benefit to mankind. But don't be under the delusion that they are a seamless and fungible replacement. There is NO replacement for crude

Even if we did find out how to burn water for energy, petrochemicals make up a large portion of crude's importance to mankind. Roughly 9% of every barrel of crude goes to petrochemical use.

If we stopped burning crude this instant, we would still suck the wells dry, albeit not as quickly, just from petrochemical use.

So even if we all stop driving, we will just be postponing the inevitable depletion of crude oil.

A partial list of products made from crude:

Solvents Diesel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap
Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses
Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
Combs CD's Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline

From this list we can see that we are massively depend on crude for our non sustainable lifestyle.

It has been estimated that for the earth to sustainably support its population without fossil fuels a 90% dieoff must occur. I don't know if that is the right figure, but I do know humans could not live as they do unless it was funded by artificial means via fossil fuels.

http://dieoff.org/

So if this dieoff happens, of course there will be great amounts of pain in the world. But it is natures intended balancing act.

It also reminds us that nature does not bow to humans - it is humans that always bow to nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

One last tidbit for you guys to chew on...

"Kaiser forecast that the yearly family premium for health insurance could reach $30,803.00 in ten years if the 8.7% annual increase of the previous 10 years were to continue."

http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/091509_altman.cfm

And let's go out a further 10 years. Now, the average premium is $70,939.00 per year at an 8.7% annual increase.

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Size-Me-John-Banzhaf/dp/B0002OXVBO

Highly recommended. Get it from your library.