View Full Version : Postal, Email and/or Picture Posting Shooting Matches
05-22-2003, 08:56 AM
There are many folks here that appear to be interested in participating in this type competition. And now we have a member, Joe Haller, that appears to have a considerable amount of experience in organizing this sort on thing.
I woulld like to use this forum here to establish a standard set of targets and rules to be used for the matches that are currently being offered in various forums on TFF. We can then set matches here in this forum for rifle, pistol and shotgun competitions.
Also, I would like to ask Joe Haller if he would help coordinate this effort.
Below, I have copied some comments that Joe made in a thread in the 22 Rimfire Forum. Very good questions and comments Joe.
First ya need ta set the “course of fire":
1. What is the distance. You said 50 yards: Right?
2. Is it going to be benchrest from sandbags? Standing? Shot over a log?
2. How many shots? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25?.
3. All on one target? (problems here)
4. Are you going to measure group size?
5. Is it going to be a “score” match?
Now, before you answer those questions:” Consider this:
If you run a “score” match you make sure everyone can get the right target .
If you are running a “group” match. the type of target makes no difference.
For a score match, you make sure everyone KNOWS how to score the target.
For a group match, you have the shooters MAIL you the targets for measurement.
If you are shooting a "score" match at 50 yards and you use a single target, some shots will overlap. When two shots cut into each other, over a scoring ring it is difficult to see if one or both cut into the scoring ring of higher value.
After you decide the “course of fire” I would have some other questions for you to help you “polish up” the details.
Joe has also shown targets that he uses for USBR competition. They appear to be quality targets, but I would like to make a recommendation here on targets. Midway, USA has free downloads for rifle and pistol targets. Save them to your pc and print them out on 8 1/2x11 sheets and use them. Everyone then will be using the same targets.
Click on the links and save from Adobe Acrobat to your pc.
Rifle Target (http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/pdf/targets/rifle_target.pdf)
Pistol Target (http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/pdf/targets/pistol_target.pdf)
05-26-2003, 11:02 AM
Your post has been up for four days now and no response yet. Wonder why?
There IS a lot of interest in Postal/E-Mail Matches. Over on Rimfire Central we had 76 shooters in our April Match and it looks like we are going to top 100 in our May Match. Eleven shooters from Australia just turned their scores in.
Is there just not many shooters tapping into this forum? Shooters waiting to get more information before they jump in with comments? No Rimfire shooters in here?
I would be willing to help out with setting something up: IF, there is any interest.
You got questions? I got some answers.
05-26-2003, 09:08 PM
I think the rim-fire folk are interested...Just gotta give them time...;)
05-27-2003, 09:19 AM
Maybe some extra information would help. I found that on these forums there are a LOT of shooters interested in getting into competition, but they just don't have enough information to help them get started.
There are lots of shootng clubs around the country, but not every home town has one. So how does someone learn obout any of the shooting sports games if there is not club in the area to join?
A good way now that so many people are in the internet is with matches there you shoot on youyr own range and report scores on a fourm like this.
BUT: All competitons have guildlines and rules. What are the rules? There are six National Associations that sanction rimfire bencrest matches across the USA. There is a postal match and an e-mail match for rimfire benchrest and there is at least one postal match for centerfire rifles from benchrest.
You can set up your own rules here as you please, or accept the rules of a National Associaiton. I thnk that Smoking Guns suggestion of posting pictures of the target and rifle is a good one. BUT: Seems the way it was scores last year and the way the winners were determined was pretty hap-hazard. Not many took part either: Right?
You could decide to use the same course of fire and target as we do on Rimfire Central. But: You may get more shooters if you did something different. The target we use don't not work well with iron sightrs. If you want to attract shooters who want to shoot with irons, you need a solid black aiming bull.
First things first: What do you want the course of fire to be?
Let's talk about it.
05-27-2003, 05:30 PM
Seems the way it was scores last year and the way the winners were determined was pretty hap-hazard.
We had to buy targets from walmart (so we would all have the same targets) same number of shots at at the same distance, emailed results to one person (da judge) Classes were: pistols scoped and not, rifles scoped and not. Shooting position of your choice. Just wondering, what is hap-hazard about this?
I do like having the same target for everyone to shoot at, but would prefer one that can be printed online, like the one that has been suggested from midwayusa. Those we used last year are big enough to pattern a shotgun. I know because after using it for 22, 9mm, and 357 I did pattern a shotgun with it. LOL
I do not know how many people shot last year, but if you start with TOO many rules, we'll turn into IPSC. :mad:
We're kinda laid back around here, maybe too much so?
05-27-2003, 05:53 PM
I would be interested in a centerfire comp. I like to shoot tactical, prone from bipod, not benchrest. Anyone else please post. thx
05-27-2003, 06:02 PM
O yea also, I would like 100 yrds. or greater. Preferably 200 yrds (this helps scoring, not everyone is a good at 200). Also think there should be a witness that signs the target as well as the shooter. that's my 2 cents.
05-27-2003, 07:12 PM
I am with you on keeping the rules simple. NRA has BIG rule books too. And: I just counted: NBRSA has 52 pages on their rule book.
I also hope I didn’t offend anyone by using that “hap-hazard “ comment. That word popped into my mind when I read the rules and came to this questtion:
“There is a 10 ring with a red dot in it. Is everything in the ten ring 10 points? I guess what I am asking is there is no other value for the red dot is there?
“I think the red is just a good color contrast for aiming at on the rifle target. Everything inside the 10 ring is ten.”
NRA has used that target for 100 yard smallbore (.22 rimfire) competitions for a long time. NRA calls it the A-25 target. At first the target did not have that 1 inch circle in the middle of the 10 ring. Than, sometime between 1927 and 1938 the competitors at Camp Perry started shooting near perfect scores. SO: NRA put that 1 inch ring in the middle of the 10 ring and called it the “X” ring. X for the Roman numeral 10. That ring is now used to break ties.
A score of 100-9x beats a score of 100-8x.
A score of 98-7x beats a score of 98-6x.
A score of 72-1x beats a score of 72-0x.
This type of tie breaking has been in use since before most of us were born. Something we all should know, if we are going to score targets.
05-27-2003, 07:34 PM
There is a centerfire postal match over on Benchrest Central. They shoot at 100 yards and have a heavy gun class limited to a maximum of 13.5 lbs. They also have a hunting rifle class limited to factory rifles. “You can do trigger work and glass bedding on the factory rifle, but not much more.
Go to: http://www.benchrest.com/
In the bottom left hand corner you will see “Rimfire and Centerfire Postal Matches. Below that are two hyperlinks: Rimfire and Centerfire. Click on “Centerfire”
After you read the rules, send Liz Moore an e-mail message asking for more information on how the centerfire matches are run. AND:Ask her if you would be allowed to use your bipod in the match.
Tell her Joe sent you.
I like the idea of some friendly competition. I'll qualify that by saying that my interest is in using rimfire rifles as they came from the manufacturer.
Jay (RFC member too)
05-28-2003, 08:52 AM
There has been a problem with defining rules for a factory class rifle. It's a tough problem that none of the 6 National Rimfire Benchrest Associations have been able to solve. IR-50/50 set up a sporter class for factory rifles. Then guys started coming to the matches with $900 factory sporters. So, they open up the rules to custom built rifles. Now a 7.5 lb. sporter build up by a cusotm gunsmith costs in the range if $1500 to $2000.
The same sporter class rifle is used in RBA, and they cost just as much. NBRSA has an 8.5 lb class: Same high cost. USBR and IBS set up a 8.5 lb. Factory Sporter Classs, where you could glass bed, do trigger work and not much more. Very few shooters compete in those sporter class matches.
If you guys here in this site can come up with a factory sporter class that will appeal to a lot of shooters, you will be doing something that no one has done before you.
You want FUN match: Right?
My suggestion would be to put no restrictions on the rifle or scope. Only insist that they be rimfiers and that the triggers are safe. That’s what we did in the E-Mail matches and they have become very popular. More than 400 shooters in the past two and a half years.
05-28-2003, 09:19 AM
I have not been ignoring this topic. I am waiting to see what others have to say. I think the interest is here though to establish a set of rules or borrow someone elses rules if a majority can agree. Keep the comments coming.
Well, how 'bout this.......
Factory class rifle
.22 cal rimfire by cost...as manufactured in $250 increments, then open class over $1000. Cost determined by book value @ say 90% condition?
Iron sights at 25, 50, and 100 yds
Scopes at 50 and 100 yds
2" bulls with x ring at 25 yds
USBR targets at 50 and up
5 classes by cost. :)......
For my two cents worth, I have just as much fun shooting my Mossberg M44US (cost $150) as I do my M12's for over $500....BUT I wouldn't expect the 416 to compete with the M12
05-28-2003, 06:10 PM
Thanks Joe. Yea I have been to benchrest central. I used to have a bench gun, I visit there frequently.
06-04-2003, 12:36 AM
First off. I'm gonna shoot what I'm gonna shoot. I'm just here to share a little with ya'll. If this is gonna be something ya need witness's on I figure me and my $50 marlin have already won.
Just name a distance and everybody use the midway targets. Go for it. Let 'em rest it on what ever they want or free hand standing. Maybe a class for each of those but I can't see something that needs a gun inspection to determine classes.
06-05-2003, 06:11 AM
I agree with you Jack, If this is gonna be so critical that we need a witness whats next? Get it notorized? Nah...I'm just here to have fun and when it becomes that complicated it aint fun no more. Whats wrong with a buncha guys posting targets for comparison and a little good natured kidding. If someone wants to be called"The Winner" thats fine too. I figure to shoot the guns I have since thats Why I have them and if they dont fit into a category...oh well. I figure it like this, category means caliber. It wouldnt matter if you use a target rifle or a model 60 as long as its the same caliber. REMEMBER....its all about having fun.
06-05-2003, 08:44 PM
Let's just have some fun!...then finally y'all will figure out that...I'm the best "Shootist" 'round here!...http://swedishpoison.com/forums/html/emoticons/fd289175.gif...Leetle Sheets!... ;)
06-09-2003, 05:39 PM
I like the idea of 200yds too but the problem is finding a range that has 200yrds. Some folks (me) can't find any place close by to do the shootin. the closest I know of is 3 hrs drive west from me.
Once I get moved it will be further.
Just something to think about.
SG would like to get some shootin pointers from ya when you get in my area. I'm always lookin for ways of improvement. Should be pretty easy for ya. I'm a good listener and a fast learner:D
06-09-2003, 07:30 PM
SG would like to get some shootin pointers from ya when you get in my area. I'm always lookin for ways of improvement. Should be pretty easy for ya. I'm a good listener and a fast learner...The first "tip" ever given is...the end of Mr. Barrel is always pointed away from you when you pull the trigger!... http://images.deviantart.com/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
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