Ruger LCP vs. Kahr P380

[Bubblehead]

I'm looking for a compact carry pistol and both the Ruger LCP and Kahr P380 meet my "size" requirements. The Kahr is almost twice the price of the Ruger and I've had no experience with either one.

Can anyone help me understand the merits of each and why the Kahr might be worth the extra cost?

I'm looking for something small. My other carry pistols are a compact 45 and a Glock 23.

Thank you,

John

[rglbegl]

I LOVE my Kahr.
But for the price difference, I would go for the Ruger.

The Kahr will be more accurate, it has a better barrel and better sights.
The Kahr will be higher quality, with more attention to detail.
I even think the Kahr has a better trigger.
But the Ruger is a very solid, and very reliable weapon.

Now if it were between a Ruger LCP and the Kahr PM9 . . .. no comparison. Kahr hands down.
But every time there is a 380 discussion, someone will suggest the Kel-Tec.
So lets see how many people jump in here to talk about a weapon that is illegal in California

[Bill DeShivs]

Of the two choices, I would choose Keltec!

[Bubblehead]

Bill, why Keltec. It wasn't even one of my choices. John

[rglbegl]

Kel-tec = Illegal in California.
LCP = Illegal in California.


Looks like it is the Kahr for you

[graehaven]

Of the two choices, I would choose Keltec!

I couldn't have said it any better, Bill!

Keltec, hands down. There are many recalls on the Ruger (which is a knock off of the Keltec anyway), and the Kahr's price is just ridiculous. :D

Reviews:

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec_P3AT.htm

http://www.***********.com/content/keltec-p3at

http://www.mouseguns.com/ideal2.htm (many links at bottom here too)

[rglbegl]

Let me say this again


Kel-tec is ILLEGAL in California

We are being of no help to this person by suggesting something that is not possible.

[graehaven]

Dude, relax, I was typing my response when yours came in. I didn't see it. No need to yell about it.

I'm sorry for your loss in that leftist state. Can you enlighten us as to why those are illegal there?

thanks.

[rglbegl]

They have no external safety, nor do they pass the drop test.
So Kel-Tec wont even attempt to make their guns legal here. (expensive process)
Which sucks because I want that new 30 shot .22mag pistol.

The LCP has similiar problems.
But somehow the Kahr, with no external safety, is legal to own. (grandfathered in?)

[graehaven]

Found on another forum - they are not legal due to a number of reasons: weren't submitted for safety tests, etc....whatever.

the legal list of allowed hand guns in CA are here:

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

[graehaven]

They have no external safety, nor do they pass the drop test.

Ahhhh. right. thanks.

Thank God they have no external safety.

[graehaven]

They have no external safety, nor do they pass the drop test.
So Kel-Tec wont even attempt to make their guns legal here. (expensive process)
Which sucks because I want that new 30 shot .22mag pistol.

The LCP has similiar problems.
But somehow the Kahr, with no external safety, is legal to own. (grandfathered in?)

Yeah, I won't be able to touch that .22 with the 30 rd mag either, here in NY. Anything over 10 rds, not allowed. nice. :mad:

[graehaven]

Here's all the models allowed in CA that are .380 (pic attached):

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/safeguns_resp.asp

[Bubblehead]

The LCP is legal in California for Law Enforcement Officers. It is also legal for a "civilian" to purchase through the private party transfer process. I haven't checked into the Kel-Tec but I believe the same law applies. Here is the section of the California Firearms Law:

The requirements for handguns to pass safety and functionality tests and to be listed in the Department of Justice’s official list of handguns certified as safe for sale in California do not apply to transactions involving the following:
• Private party transfers of handguns occurring through a firearms dealer. (Penal Code § 12132(a).)

So all I have to do is find an LEO who wants to sell their LCP or Kel-Tec and I'm in business.

[rglbegl]

Read the law again.
You can only buy a gun that is grandfathered in from a private individual.
Even if someone buys one in another state, and moves to Cali, they are not allowed to sell it to you. (unless you are a LEO)

[Bubblehead]

rglbegl - I'm not going to argue with you but that is not my interpretation nor my firearms dealer's interpretation. He conducts these type of sales regularly. I do have a seller for the LCP so we'll just have to wait and see what happens when we process the paper work.

I do agree that what you say does apply to "assault weapons" though.

[rglbegl]

Let me know how it goes.
If it works, everyone I know (who lives in another state) will be selling 5 guns per year here in Cali.

[deadin]

I've been thinking about getting a compact .380, but am waiting for the S&W BodyGuard to hit the street. It's an ugly little thing, but kind of intriguing.

Anybody heard any rumors about what price it's going to sell for?

[graehaven]

I've been thinking about getting a compact .380, but am waiting for the S&W BodyGuard to hit the street. It's an ugly little thing, but kind of intriguing.

Anybody heard any rumors about what price it's going to sell for?

If it's anything like the sigma, i'd avoid it.

[Old Guy]

I know that this gun is not on your original list but it is on one of the approved lists above. You should also consider the Bersa 380's. They are a well made gun for the money.

[Double D]

I would move to another state and buy whatever I wanted.

[graehaven]

I know that this gun is not on your original list but it is on one of the approved lists above. You should also consider the Bersa 380's. They are a well made gun for the money.

Ditto, love my Bersa.

[ponycar17]

....

[ponycar17]

I know that this gun is not on your original list but it is on one of the approved lists above. You should also consider the Bersa 380's. They are a well made gun for the money.

They're also HUUUUUGE for concealed carry in a .380 platform and only cost $10-$25 less than the comparable caliber but much more concealable Kel-Tec P-3AT and Ruger LCP.

I own a Bersa Thunder .380 but will be the first to tell you that it's the most impractical carry gun of its class that I own.

[Uncle Mikey]

I have both. I got the LCP when they first came out. There was a recall that I sent it back for. It had multiple failure to feeds. Got it back and it ran like a charm. About a year later I got the P380. It was worst that the LCP. I did the slide lock, insert mag, release slide routine. Still had problems. I sent it back to Kahr and so far its been ok with all but the flat nose stuff. It hates Buffalo Bore stuff. I hate that because they make some good +p ammo. I just load a Buffalo Bore 95 grain +P first then follow up with Critical Defense. In my experience the P380 is more accurate that the Ruger, has a trigger that feels close to a couple of S&W revolvers I have, and has way better sites. I put a set of XS big dot night sites on mine. They work better with my over 50 eyes. I got the Kahr 380 because I had the the PM9 Kahr which is one of my favorite pistols of the 9 or so
I have. NEVER had a problem with it.

[Helix_FR]

For the price I'd go with the ruger too. Kahr's are a nice design with a nice trigger but after 800 rounds or so they start to have issues. Broken slide stop is real common but also broken trigger bars is close behind. Kahr says they will warranty them but I have yet to get anything free from them, they always have an excuse why they won't cover it and the prices for parts is high compared to the life span of them. The trigger on the LCP is the real killer on the accuracy. Once the trigger is shortened and lightened, grouping drops significantly. Smiths bodyguard is a good little gun but don't be tempted to buy it bc it has a laser on it. The laser is useless bc of its external push button switch. there is no pressure switch so you would have too tell the perp to wait while you turn on your laser.

[rogertc1]

Get the Hi-Point...great gun for the money.

[Hammerslagger]

For the price I'd go with the ruger too. Kahr's are a nice design with a nice trigger but after 800 rounds or so they start to have issues. Broken slide stop is real common but also broken trigger bars is close behind. Kahr says they will warranty them but I have yet to get anything free from them, they always have an excuse why they won't cover it and the prices for parts is high compared to the life span of them. The trigger on the LCP is the real killer on the accuracy. Once the trigger is shortened and lightened, grouping drops significantly. Smiths bodyguard is a good little gun but don't be tempted to buy it bc it has a laser on it. The laser is useless bc of its external push button switch. there is no pressure switch so you would have too tell the perp to wait while you turn on your laser.



Listen to HelixFR (who is a working G-smith in a retail gunshop/range) relative to Kahr's durability problems and horrible warranty policies (their always finding "an excuse why they won't cover it"). {See other Kahr threads about their CS at TFF.}

I never recommend the purchase of any new Kahr; and do so for used Kahrs, only, if they are priced so low that one could buy it today and sell tomorrow for a significant profit.

Also, I agree with his remark about any laser unit that has to be manually "switched on". They will usually be useless in a violent confrontation. A Ruger LCP (or the Kel-Tec P3AT that the LCP is more expensively copied off of) fitted with a Crimson Trace (automatic "on" , when you grip the gun) laser unit makes an excellent, super compact, .380 ACP pocket pistol, tool of personal defense.

Helix is correct about the LCP trigger being excessively heavy and long for target shooting. However, is was not designed as a target pistol; and one can learn to use its less than desirable trigger; especially when used with the CT laser unit.

HTH

[Charles Christensen]

Well, if you do manage to get an LCP I would suggest you get a set of replacement recoil and firing pin springs from Wolff Gunsprings. I saw some article that told about them and said that a heavier recoil spring set helped with felt recoil. I got all the springs and have installed them but have not been out to test it yet. I have put about 50 rounds through it in out-of-the-box form without the slightest problem. I suppose it don't get no better than that.

[3/2 STA SS]

I would move to another state and buy whatever I wanted.

EXACTLY...I spent a summer in Cali in 1986 with my Uncle outside of LA and I swear it was like living in a prison.

[Mr_Shamrock]

I have had Kahr's and currently carry an LCP. I was happy with the Kahr's, but for me the LCP is just an absolutely perfect carry weapon. I have 400 plus rounds through it without a single hiccup. I just got the Hogue grips today and can't wait to get back to the range...

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv227/Mr_Shamrock/100_9748.jpg

[RysingPhynix]

I'm about to buy one of these two pistols and was targeting the Kahr because it welcomes P+ rounds. the LCP states boldly not to fire P+ and other hot loads. No?? With the .380 being so small for real world defense, it makes sense that one needs the most stopping power as possible. Even the 9mm is considered small in many cases.
I'll admit the Ruger is more comfortable in the hand, less expensive and good rep. And its definitely disappointing to hear Kahrs have longevity issues.
However, a pocket pistol is to save my life. I'll only consider .380's that can regularly handle hotter loads. Any other pocket pistols that fit the bill??

[carver]

Welcome to the forum! No matter which .380 you choose, look at the ammo you feed it for SD. Hornady makes a hollow point round called Critical Defence, it is guaranteed to mushroom every time. But it will give you only about 10" of penitration. Solids, or ball ammo, will give you about 14" of penitration. Jack404, one of our members from Australia, recomends staggering the HP rounds, with the solids. That's the way I load my .380's, and .38's.

[RysingPhynix]

Thx for reply. I'm familiar with different ammo, just not the two guns in this forum. LCP not ok with P+?? Kahr is? What I'm seeing from this chat is the kahr is better built for hotter loads, better trigger (which is huge); but its more $$ and isn't meant to be fired all the time. I doubt this size gun is meant for daily range days. I'm looking far and wide for another option to the Kahr.... Thx

[hardluk1]

There is not saami rated 380 +P load so don't say kahr said is fine. There are some loads that use a different blend of powders to get a increase in performance and use a +p as advertizeing gimick.

I am a big kahr a carrier of kahr 9mm pistols but there 380 as of yet is not a fully dependable pistol. I went with the taurus tcp. Same weight as the kahr but with a better trigger by far than the rest of the micro pistols for price compairable or less than the ruger and kt depending on model . Also seems to care less what ammo is used.