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SouthernMoss
06-27-2003, 05:26 PM
Districts work out gun law

By DEBBIE HUMMEL Associated Press writer
SALT LAKE CITY -- The state's two largest school districts are working out the details of how to enforce a new Utah law allowing teachers to carry concealed weapons into classrooms.

But a sticking point has emerged: Any use of a weapon on school grounds -- lawful or not -- likely wouldn't be covered by the schools' state insurance provider. Instead, the employee who brings the gun to school would be liable for its use.

Officials from the Granite district in Salt Lake City and Jordan district in Salt Lake County met with Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff on Tuesday to discuss their tentative concealed weapon policies.

Schools across Utah are reviewing their weapons policies to conform to a law passed by the Legislature earlier this year that allows employees to bring concealed weapons in schools as long as the weapon is covered, not left in the open and is "readily accessible for immediate use."

Granite and Jordan are updating their policies to reflect the law while making clear that if an employee carries a concealed weapon, he or she does so at their own risk.

Shurtleff said the schools' draft policies don't appear to clash with the new state law.

"We all have the same goals: to protect kids and obey any policy involving state law," Shurtleff said.

While districts adjust their policies, questions linger about whether the districts' polices, Shurtleff said.

The issue is whether gun-toters are acting within their scope of employment, said Alan Edwards, director of the State Division of Risk Management, which insures the schools.

If an employee's job description included carrying a gun, the insurance carrier would cover any damage or legal bills stemming from its use, he said.

"I think the school should exercise good judgment on who they have carrying weapons on their behalf. I think it's appropriate that the schools are saying, 'If someone uses it in accordance with state law there would be no discipline taken,"' Edwards said.

But the insurance question remains.

Cal Evans, executive director for compliance and special programs in the Jordan school district, said his district's tentative policy makes clear that if a concealed weapons carrier fires a gun at a school, that person will be liable for their actions.

"The state law gives you a right to carry the weapon. If its use is outside your scope of employment ... its use is your own individual choice and your own individual responsibility," Evans said.

Evans said he isn't convinced the new law will make schools safer.

inplanotx
06-27-2003, 06:27 PM
Well, finally found one situation I can totally disagree with. IMHO I cannot see anyone, teacher or student carrying a gun or any other weapon in a classroom. If the proper security is in place there is no need. Worst we had were pea shooters, straws and a box of 19 cent peas.

Let me reminisce back to my school days. Teachers were revered and commanded respect from the students. This was taught AT HOME! When you got in trouble at school and had to report to the principles office, you KNEW you were in deep Kimchi! When the principal called you in to meet the "Board of Education", they did not mean a clandestine meeting with a group of people. They meant, THE BOARD! A little condescending piece of wood measuring about 24 inches long, by 1 inch thick by 6 inches wide. Handle was good enough for a two handed hold. Also had a piece of rawhide in a hole through the handle to make a neat placque on the wall.

Once the punishment was handed out, they called your parents and lo and behold, when you got home and slipped quietly into your room to do your homework, in came dad to ask how the day went. Standing with a book in your hand (cause you could not sit down), you advised dad that "all was well and you needed to study hard for a test the next day". Dad, being the supreme being that he was, said "fine, let me know when you're done".

After dinner, you ask to go out and play with the neighborhood kids for a while. Dad again asks how you're day went and is now adamant for an answer. You say "great", and turn toward the door. Wherein dad immediatly interjects with "I got a call from the principal today" Immediately your heart stops, cold sweats break out, your knees give away and your skin turns cold and clammy. With a shy and disfiguring twist you say "Johhny did it, it wasn't me". Whereby you are escorted to Dad's room where phase two takes place. It will be a month before you can sit comfortably again.

This is what we have to go back to. Enough of this Dr. Spock sheet, we need parent involvement and school involvement. This way our children will learn RESPECT!

Sorry for the rant, but been there and done that and I turned out okay. Law abiding and respectful of others.

1952Sniper
06-27-2003, 06:56 PM
I'm all for teachers carrying guns. A school should not be any different than any other place in America. You're talking about the way things *should* be, but this is the way it *is*.

Kids bring guns to school. Kids shoot other kids at school.

When kids fight, who breaks them up? Teachers. So if something should happen at school involving guns, teachers should be equipped to handle that too. The next Columbine-type event can be prevented by swift action from a teacher carrying a concealed handgun.

I tell you what, if I had known that my teacher was packing heat, that would have gone a lot farther than the vague threat of a trip to the principal's office.

inplanotx
06-27-2003, 08:09 PM
Sniper, I agree. Today going to the principals office is a vague threat. Yesteryear, you knew what was coming and paid close attention. You had the fear of God. Not like today.

Zigzag2
06-27-2003, 08:20 PM
I'm all for everyone carrying a gun, however I pity the fool that gets their gun taken away from them and cramed up their @$$.

Don't get me wrong, I have alot of respect for Teachers, I always have, but IMHO there are some bad ones out there as well.

Cow Caregiver
06-27-2003, 08:40 PM
The flibbertigibbit DemoCritter teachers will not apply for permits, and should not cause much problem at the time, since their usual response to trouble is to bleat, turn and flee. They are not a danger until afterwards, when they second-guess everything from their own myopic and hoplophobic viewpoint and castigate anyone who can respond effectively to a crisis.

Their mode of attack will be "Yew threatened him with your gun. Yew endangered the chill-run. Yew brutalized their psyches with your terrible weapon."

Best response is "The guy who was pointing his gun at the other children was endangering the children. I stopped that. Permanently. Further questions?"

armedandsafe
06-28-2003, 02:25 PM
I don't see that there is any room for argument.
After all, just because we can trust these teachers with our children doesn't mean we can trust them with a gun. Right?
Having that complicated piece of metal machinery even close to the children will harm them forever. Any teacher who carries such a menacing object will eventually turn into a raving maniac and start butchering children and fellow teachers and staff at random.
Right?

[/sarcasm]

Cow Caregiver
06-28-2003, 03:38 PM
Only if they keep soliciting campaign contributions for Hilary and Al....

Sir Bug
06-28-2003, 05:18 PM
Hi Gang,

My wife is a teacher. On one occasion, she had to fill in for the regular teacher in the remedial class in a middle (7th/8th grades) school. These "children" are difficult at best to control. Some of them are older and much larger than their peers. I would hate to think what could happen if one overcame a teacher and disarmed him/her.

We've gone from barring corporal punisment in schools to having teachers carry concealed weapons. Like others, I ask, 'what has happened to our schools?" The answer is PARENTS, I'm afraid. Apathethic parents believe when they send their children to school - you got um, you raise um.

Hopefully, teachers will use a lot of discretion and give careful thought to such a responsibility.

I support teachers. I hope my trust in them will be merited.

Your Friend in Dixie,

Sir Bug

WAGCEVP
06-29-2003, 08:04 AM
how many innocent people would have died had the assistant principal NOT had his gun at pearl Mississippi? maybe as many as columbine, where they could do NOTHING but hide under a tabl and pray that they weren't next.

Either bring back corporal punishmnet or give the teachers a chance to protect their students