View Full Version : Golden PPK
12-06-2010, 01:01 PM
A neighbour turned this up recently & has asked me to get it valued for him.Its not solid gold as the area around the f/pin is a much darker colour showing the hint of steel underneath.The grips are Ivory.with the raised figures beingsolid gold.Its in full working order, but the owner has no wish to have it test fired now or at any future time.Ive no idea what it could be worth,anyone got even the vaguist idea ???
12-06-2010, 02:27 PM
Don't believe that is factory plating/engraving. Walther did produce gold plated engraved pistols, but the pattern and treatment of slide markings are different.
I'd estimate US$3000 as a ballpark.
Hmmm PPK in a PP case. will be interested as to what the experts will say
12-06-2010, 04:13 PM
I also think it's aftermarket embellishment.
12-06-2010, 05:10 PM
WOW!!!! Well it looks like a walther PPK made between 1940 and 1945. It has a 60 safety and an Eagle over N. No Idea what the worth is????!!!!
Coulda Bin Hitlers'........Dono???????!!!
As was pointed out to me, it has no serial numbers nor slide markings, it may not even be a real PPK but rather a replica. As SSMN pointed out, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered, . Better and clearer pictures and pictures of the internals. The engraving may not even be real??? ADDED: Something else to think about, If it is a real Walther PPK, then it had a serial number, it has been removed which makes the gun illegal. So who would buy it?
12-07-2010, 04:58 PM
£ pics of internals, Top of slide says Walther PPK Cal 7.65mm hope this helps a bit
It is after market, perhaps to salvage a badly corroded or damaged firearm. f As noted all markings have been removed which is odd unless as stated it was badly pitted and could not be restored. If it is real gold on the grips it may go for up to 4000 but not as any type of collectors item. The only way to ascertain the true value is from a professional appraiser or an auction house. There is also the matter of the serial number. Now before someone pipes in with the " prior to 1968", if a firearm never had a serial number, no problem. However if it had a serial number and it was removed then that is bad news from home. That problem has to be overcome. I don't know the procedure of the BATFE to issue a new number, but I'm sure others on the board do. Since all the engraving and embellishing was done after market I can't think of any other way to get the value. I would dearly like to know the story behind the gun.
12-07-2010, 05:53 PM
Well, the OP is from the Channel Islands, so I don't think it matters what US law says.
Now the question is whether the gun is 1) real and 2) original. Some very realistic dummy guns have been made for collectors in the UK and Japan where civilian ownership of handguns is banned, and that could be one of them, but I don't think so. It looks real to me (though I can't tell if the barrel is clear and rifled), and not many fakes have that degree of accuracy on internal detail.
I have never seen a Walther-engraved pistol marked that way on the slide, it does look like the kind of marking used on replicas, as does the case and the identification tag. Anyway, it is unique and interesting, as is the engraving itself, and I wish I could say more about it or give a value.
12-07-2010, 06:17 PM
Can't be Hitler's gun because somebody already sold me that one. Don't believe this is a factory job at all. If it's a replica, it is a good one. If it were real, it would have frame and slide markings, and I didn't see any. As a replica piece, I'd guess here at a Gun Show about $150 to $250 with the right buyer - say a collector of these.
I was going to say that it was likely just a replica, but I've looked at the photos again, and it does look like a real PPK or a really good replica. It is very detailed, and appears to me to have been scrubbed of factory markings and plated/engraved. Without any serial numbers or documentation it would be nearlly impossible to guess at a value. I doubt if it were sellable here in the U.S. as it is.
:)Good Grief, I didn't even notice Kestral was from the Channel Islands, but if they come under the King rule, ( if they do, I don't know ) that would be even worst. The complete lack of markings is what bothers me also. It looks authentic but I have never seen any ingraved Walther, factory or not, that didn't have the factory etchings and a serial number. added: Never mind about the Kings rule, I just did my homework.:)
12-07-2010, 06:43 PM
A few very special Walther presentation pistols did not have the standard markings, but they were certainly the exception and the engraving is quite different.
AFAIK, the Channel Islands are part of the UK, which is why I wondered about it being a dummy pistol. If it is, it is a darned good one.
12-07-2010, 06:57 PM
It's a real gun. The markings were removed to give the engraver a clean "canvas," and they were replicated on the top of the slide. The serial number must have been bothersme, too. Notice the name plate says "Walther PP?" instead of PPK?
12-07-2010, 07:03 PM
As kx1a pointed out, the case is formed for a PP, so it probably doesn't belong to that gun.
12-07-2010, 08:00 PM
If I'm not mistaken that's an Eagle over an "N" on the breech sleeve that the barrel slides into....check to see if the eagle over N is on the end on the barrel!!!
That's no Replica!!!!
PLUS: You can see the cartridge indicator and the firing pin. The slide is real.
The frame was made after 1942 because of the extended beaver tale (tang). The frame is real too.
The PPK is Real!!!
12-07-2010, 10:24 PM
Could you look at the end of the barrel on the right side near the front (end of barrel) and see if there is a Eagle over an N. If there is the gun is more than likely real. also can you take the grips off so we can see that there is no back metal strap like on a Walther PP? Would appreciate if you could.
12-08-2010, 02:46 AM
My neighbour originally didnt want the markings shown,but he now agrees its OK to do so.Its difficult with my camera to get really good shots,but it reads JR001 on the chamber with approx 3 qtrs of a waffen eagle about 6mm below. There is also an eagle about 2 or 3 mm back from the R/T hand side of the muzzle. The barrel rifling is also very good and sharp. The PP marked box inside the main box contains 3 rds of 7.65mm ammo,which my neighbour thought was gold plated, but is just very highly polished.they are post war I think ,PMP.7.65 stamped. The other shot I didn`t include was the rear of the butt,which has a bears head at the base.I will sent it separately
12-08-2010, 02:53 AM
Rear of butt for PPK, also the Channel Islands are not part of the UK since 1066 when we captured them at the battle of Hastings, but we do owe our alligience to the British throne, also we are not part of the E.U
12-08-2010, 02:22 PM
Apologies to the good folks of the Channel Islands. I had wondered how anyone in the UK could still own an unruined pistol.
I am convinced it is not a replica, but there are still many questions on its origin and who did the engraving. I hope someone can come up with the answers.
12-09-2010, 06:50 AM
The engraving seems German, even if the markings are in Englsih.
12-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Yes, German engraving with English words. Obviously an American GI found a German engraver after the war while he was waiting to be shipped home and instructed him as to how he wanted the wording in English. A few packs of cigarettes, and the deal was done.
12-09-2010, 10:09 AM
I have been wrong before, but it is my opinion this is a post war ppk. Notice the 2 piece grips & the extended frame, that is gold plated. Also the number on the barrel would put it in that category. Just my 2 cents worth guys.
12-09-2010, 11:32 AM
Those grips would have been about impossible to make in the "wraparound" style of the original PPK grips, but the frame is PPK. You can tell where the frame stops and the grips begin in #18. The front of the slide also is made in the pre-1945 manner. There may have been a few wartime guns made in the new style ("Legend" show a PPK presented to Himmler in 1944 with the new style) but I know of no postwar guns with the old style cuts.
I am not sure what you folks mean by "English words." The only markings I see are on the top of the slide and the only "English" part would be the spelling of "CAL" with a "C". But that is the way Walther spelled it in the normal slide markings, so it would seem the engraver simply used the normal spelling or copied it from the side of the slide before it was removed (if it was removed). Many American GIs did have their trophy guns engraved in Germany (it was called "carton of cigarettes engraving" because that is what it cost), but that gun is well beyond the usual work of that type and would have been expensive even in post-war Germany.
The eagle on the frame over the chamber (showing through the ejection port) is not a WaffenAmt eagle, it is the normal commercial eagle/N nitro proof.
I suspect the "JR001" is the serial number, put on by the engraver to replace the original numbers removed in the engraving work. It was common at one time for American gunsmiths to replace an obliterated serial number with the gunsmith's or customer's initials and a number. That does not mean the work is American, only that that was a common practice here; it may also have been done elsewhere.
12-10-2010, 11:59 AM
gun looks period eagle n proofed walther ppk , time frame for engraving unclear, will forward pics to deiter. in any case a really beautiful looking gun.
Again, this is a firearm that the true value can only be determined by an expert appraisal or an auction.. PPK's with Tiffany type embellishments don't show up very often.:D
12-10-2010, 03:14 PM
Comment #21 : CORRECT : it's post war plating on a '39-'44 PPK (attached here is another UPGRADE ) it's a '44; PP; Waffenamp proof; Eagle/N; Late Brown Grips w/ American Schroll in Ultra-Bright Blue..
12-10-2010, 07:15 PM
Well, the more I look at this beautiful PPK, the more it looks like it was made for royalty.
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