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Harrington & Richardson .32 break top revolver ID question...and firing

4K views 7 replies 2 participants last post by  whippet 
#1 ·
Wonderful forum, I am learning a lot. Thanks to all who share their knowledge and interests with noobs such as myself. I now know a great deal more than I did before I got here, but still have some confusion... I have a pretty little pistol, an H&R .32 (I presume .32, S&W .32 cartridges neatly slip right into the chambers), it has a 5 shot cylinder, top strap is marked in small letters in two lines:
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS COMPANY
WORCESTER MASS. USA PAT. OCT. 4. '97 APR. 2 '95 APR. 7 '96.
It has no markings on side of barrel. Has 133 stamped on back face of cylinder. Removing the black Bakelite handgrips reveals 6133 stamped on side of butt frame, and A36133 on bottom of butt frame.
Entire gun is blued, dark & shiny, 95% intact. Rifling is clean and shiny. Barrel measures about 5" from front face of cylinder to muzzle. It is double action, top break with ejector, with a hammer, all action is tight and crisp. Can anyone tell me the vintage and general value of this pistol? Photos are attached. Thanks in advance!
Metal Ear
Trigger Revolver
Firearm Gun Trigger Revolver Gun accessory
Automotive exterior Bumper Metal Steel Molding
 
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#2 ·
It is a Premier First Model, Small Frame, 4th or 5th Variation. I would need to compare the rolls stamp on top of the barrel to others to know for sure which variation. It was made between 1899-1903 if 4th variation, or in 1904 if 5th variation.

It is a blackpowder only gun and chambered in .32S&W(the short one). The 133 on the cylinder face means that it is numbers matching(see end of gun's serial number).

The bluing looks original. The grips don't apear to me though(maybe aftermarket or H&R option).

If the bore and cylinders resemble the outside, I'd put it around the 90-95% ranges, which Blue Book lists as $175-$220. PLUS, the bluing adds 20%($35-$44) because of its rarity, and the 5"-6" barrel adds another 10%($17.50-$22).
 
#3 · (Edited)
Ammunition Bullet Gun accessory Brass Metal

Thank you Knight, for a lot of valuable information. And thanks to all on this forum, I am gaining a wealth of information on a variety of interesting things.
Your info brings up another question: I have some black powder guns that I enjoy shooting, a couple of dixie gunworks pistol kits I built and an Italian repro Remington New Army .44, they are all muzzle loaders. I am not familiar with cartridge black powder guns like this H&R pistol. Even if I do not shoot it, I'd like to put together the "kit" that would go with it for functional use: cartridges, reloading stuff, cleaning kit, etc., and have a working understanding of the use of the pistol.
So, my question is, can this "black powder" gun safely fire the .32 S&W cartridge? In doing internet searches I found other gun forum's posts say yes, the guns of this vintage are strong enough, and various other (sometimes contradicting) facts and info on this gun) but I am looking for more input from those in the know on this matter. I just obtained this pistol from a relative and it came with two boxes of S&W .32 cartridges, although it was never fired by the previous owner. Cartridges are stamped "R-P 32 S & W" Thanks for any info you can share.
 
#4 ·
Here is some generic info on the .32 S&W round, from an un-impeachable source:

.32 S&W

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.32 S&W

Type Handgun
Place of origin USA
Production history
Designer Smith & Wesson
Designed 1878
Specifications
Case type Rimmed, straight
Bullet diameter .312 in (7.9 mm)
Neck diameter .334 in (8.5 mm)
Base diameter .335 in (8.5 mm)
Rim diameter .375 in (9.5 mm)
Rim thickness .045 in (1.1 mm)
Case length .61 in (15 mm)
Overall length .92 in (23 mm)
Primer type Berdan or Boxer Small pistol
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
85 gr (6 g) Lead 705 ft/s (215 m/s) 93 ft·lbf (126 J)
98 gr (6 g) Lead 705 ft/s (215 m/s) 115 ft·lbf (156 J)
Source(s): "Cartridges of the World" [1]
The .32 S&W cartridge was introduced in 1878 for the Smith & Wesson Model 1 1/2 revolver. It was originally designed as a black powder cartridge. The .32 S&W was offered to the public as a light, defense cartridge, for "card table" distances.[2]

Design
Originally designed as a black powder cartridge using 9 grains of blackpowder, the round has been loaded with smokeless powder since 1940. It is low powered and perfect for use in small frame concealable revolvers and derringers. The round remained popular in the United States and Europe long after the firearms for which it was chambered were no longer produced.[1]

At one time it was considered to be the bare minimum for a self-defense round, but was judged unsuitable for police work.[1]
 
#5 ·
Do not shoot smokeless ammo in that gun. The steels from the blackpowder era were different from the steels used in smokeless guns. And, the most critical issue - that gun is a topbreak which is a substantially weaker design than a solid frame gun.

Either roll your own blackpowder loads, or buy some blackpowder ammo.
 
#6 ·
Ok, thanks for the input. That makes sense to me. I'll track down some black powder .32 ammo.
Or, uncork the 100 rounds of .32 S&W that I got with the pistol, dump the smokeless powder out of them, measure in black powder and press the bullets back in...
 
#7 ·
Buffalo Arms Co often carries .32S&W blackpowder loads - but they are temporarily out of stock at the moment. http://www.buffaloarms.com/32_Smith_Wesson_Short_Ammo_it-967140.aspx?CAT=4441

With loading BP cartridges, here are a few tips:

1. You really don't "measure" the powder. Just fill the case to 1/16" to 1/8" below the mouth of the case. You want a little compression. And you definitely DO NOT want any airspace.
2. You might want to open the flashhole a little. BP can be harder to ignite than you think, especially with large powder loads. But once you open the flashhole a little - you do not ever want to use that case for smokeless(it will cause too much pressure on the primer). If you have ignition problems, open the flashhole a little. But with the .32S&W - I really wouldn't worry about it until you try some loads.
3. Thoroughly clean BP cases. The fired residue will cause the brass to become brittle.
4. You may want to anneal your cases from half way up the body to the mouth. BP works at lower pressures and has problems expanding modern cases to seal the chamber(remember, the case is pretty much just a gasket that holds everything together until fired).
5. Use FFFg powder grain size. FFFg might be usable in such a small caliber, but it will burn really fast compared to FFFg - thus causing a faster pressure spike and higher temps.
 
#8 ·
Thanks Knight... All good tips and info.
I am aware that BP (or pyrodex) needs to have no airspace and does need a little compression from the bullet. And, I do have pistol powder which is finer than what I use in bigger caliber loads.

Now I just need a rainy Saturday or some other block of spare time to load these up. Thanks again!
 
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