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Early 1936 (S/42) "Proof-Like" Finish Luger?

4K views 18 replies 11 participants last post by  sck 
#1 ·
My old leo Dad recently passed away, and this pretty "proof-like" finish 1936 Luger is one of the treasures that came out of a multi-decade slumber (this Luger has moved very slowly among family members since the early 1940's... finally coming to me now).

Back in the early 1990's, a friend showed me a seemingly authoritative large red photo book (a 2 red book set with stark black eagle logos on the covers) that showed a very similar proof-finish piece and identified this as manufactured by Mauser at the beginning of 1936 intended for pricey high-end civilian/consumer sale. The book explained that war needs bought an end to the (too slow) manufacture of these pretty beauties and that the factory then converted over to mass/fast, good-enough-quality, war time production. The book said that surviving Mauser factory logs showed that 200 of these proof-like Lugers were manufactured in Jan/Feb 1936... and that at the time of the red book's publication (late 1980's?/early 1990's?), only five of these pieces were known to exist (mine not one of these).

I'm doubtful that my Luger is one of these original/lost 200, primarily because of the observation that many of my numbers are mismatched... and I'm showing this similar proof-finish between these mis-matched pieces... For example, in my photos you can see that my barrel number is 2035, but my extractor/firing-pin assembly is marked "57", and these are both showing this proof-like finish. Similarly, the main handle assembly is also showing a proof-like finish (albeit not as brilliant as the barrel) and is marked "7711". I imagine that the odds of owning one of those original 200 Lugers is very low... and that the odds of owning a Luger assembled of the mis-matched parts of 4 or 5 of those original 200 Lugers is - WAY off the charts - ha-ha!!

So... what have I got here? Is this an "ordinary" S/42 Mauser that's been dressed up somehow to resemble the look of one of those 200 proof-like rarities? What additionally leads me to suspect an after-market dress-up is the relatively light quality-stamps on the side of the barrel... maybe these were originally much deeper but were worn thin by an aggressive polishing process? Is it possible to take an ordinary Luger and apply a shiny proof-like finish like this? This is a very pretty hand-gun, the shiny glass-like proof finish looks very nice. With Luger prices so reasonable (many under $1000), I'm really surprised that this isn't a more popular after-market process... applying these proof finishes. Maybe a process like this is too expensive nowadays?

I've seen a few hundred war time Luger's (at shows, in catalogs, on the web) in my life... but I've never seen any of them done up like this. So... has this "proofing" process lowered the value here... from say $1000 to maybe $500? Well... going by looks alone (and not noticing all the mis-matched numbers), the piece should be worth multiples of $1000... But that's just MY opinion... and...

YOUR opinion?
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#4 ·
Thank you!

What's involved in this... how is the process done? Are the parts all hot-dipped? Is this an expensive process? I haven't seen this done to these old Lugers... probably because it's either too expensive or it detracts from the value of an "authentic" piece...

My Uncle acquired this gun behind Axis lines sometime between 1941-1945. Since he wasn't a "gun enthusiast", it's a certainty that this rebluing process was conducted BEFORE he acquired it... that is within 5-9 years of its 1936 manufacture. I suppose this doesn't mean anything... If a person wants to beautify/reblue a gun right off the assembly line... they can do it.

Someone in the Axis must have reblued this piece... for aesthetic purposes I suppose... and it still looks very good. I'm happy owning it. Doesn't sound like it's worth much. Hence... It's a Keeper!

Thanks for the good news BD!
 
#5 ·
I don't know enough about Lugers to open this can of worms. I will say, for those who are unfamiliar with them, that proof and proof-like, in this sense, are terms from coin collecting. It means a coin that has been minted with specially polished dies on specially polished blanks, which have been burnished to a mirror-like finish.

Like Bill DeShivs, I would assume this gun has been buffed up and refinished long after World War II.

It has a lot of eye-appeal, and might make an excellent shooter, but AFAIK, the only way to find a value for it would be to put it up for auction.
 
#7 ·
I too believe it's been reblued. I wouldn't speculate as to when but it looks mighty good to have been done before your uncle liberated it. While that does hurt its value it's still a Luger and I would think still hold considerable value.

Unless your uncle was some kind of scout or raider or on a special ops mission the gun was acquired sometime after mid to late 1944. D-Day wasn't until June 6th, 1944 and it took a while to break out of the hedgerow country.
 
#8 ·
It is a beautiful "shooter". The parts have mismatched serial numbers so it is not a "collector" and the side plate doesn't have a number at all. As already said, it has been refinished, I just wonder how they kept the extractor straw colored!

Just a guess on my part, but I would venture to say that it is one of the S/42 commercial contract guns that were put together from leftover parts. I would also venture a guess that even so, the value will probably run between $750 to $1000, just because it is a Luger!
 
#9 ·
My Uncle was first tongue fluent in Polish, German, Hungarian and English. He was dropped into France (by us Allies) in the Spring of 1941 and didn't re-surface until after the war. He was listed as MIA and the family assumed he was a goner. It was unclear whether he was really MIA, or if he was on an Allied mission... or if he had become an Axis turncoat. After a few months of debriefing back over here, he was allowed to return home to civilian life in Brooklyn. He was a bit of an emotional wreck... probably suffering from what we'd call PTSD today. Though he asserted that he was in France the whole time... he only bought back and passed out a bunch of Axis trinkets (like German metals) on his return... this gun was not revealed until 20+ years later (in a funny family incident not germane here). From the moment the family first saw it (in the Fall of 1966 or 1967), it was oil soaked... as it's remained. I wiped it off for these latest snap shots. The gun hasn't been fired yet in it's Allied days over here... and from the looks of it, it's very possible that this gun has never been fired. I have other guns to shoot with (when I get the urge)... so this one will remain "for looking only... No Shooting!". It's very kool with it's shiny mirror-like finish (sorry for the "proof" terminology... yeah, I was a coin collector as a kid and the closet way to describe this finish is "proof-like")... I appreciate everybody's feedback... Thank you all!
 
#12 ·
As stated this is a reblued parts gun. The extractor is NOT straw colored but has turned a red/purple color due to the steel not taking the hot blue finish. Straw colored is a golden yellow achieved by heat tempering to a certain point and stopping before it turns to a blue then an ugly black. This red color is not unusual for many gun parts. Hot blue did not really become widespread until after WWII so I seriously doubt this was done in Europe. Lugers were rust blued and that is one reason so many remain quite nice as rust blue is much more durable then modern hot blue. I would value it at 5 to 7 hunderd dollars. Some folks may pay more for it but I would not because for a little more money you can buy a decent original condition gun. I have several Lugers from different eras. They fun to shoot so go ahead and shoot the gun as it will not affect the value by even one penny. By the way stories that accompany a gun often do match the known facts. Many WWII guns were refinished after the war during the 1950s and 60s. Sadly many were nickel plated.
 
#13 ·
It's possible the gun was reblued here in the US sometime between 1945 & 1967 (if that's what it looks like to you)... but it doesn't box with my Uncle doing it (he & the gun were in gun-unfriendly NYC and he wasn't a shooter or gun enthusiast). Who ever did it did a great job. Since this was an apparently popular thing to do at one time, I suppose there are a good number of very similar mirror-like Luger examples as these around here on the net. I'm very interested in seeing these, as I said I've never seen another Luger with this kind of finish before (in shows, etc). Can anyone point me to available photos online of other Lugers with this same mirror-like finish? Once I see photos of other Lugers that look exactly like this (using this popular rebluing technique), I'll be more satisfied that I don't have anything particularly special over here ("special" as in worth-over-$500). Thanks.
 
#14 ·
I've been to another board and to a specialist reseller of Lugers... the examples I'm seeing (many of which are probably "re-blued") don't look like my gun... they're much darker, almost black, and all their parts are the same uniform color (my colors seem much lighter and vary between each major part). I guess its possible that my gun was re-blued in several different steps... bearing a slightly different color result for each part. Well... my numbers are all different... so it makes sense (I suppose) that these different parts will all be slightly different colors from one another. What a mess! And I started out mistakenly believing that this was a pretty gun... Now I'll have to think this over!
 
#15 ·
It's still a gorgeous Luger!! Just not a numbers matching Luger. I'm with Mike, I'd be putting some rounds down that bore. And it came from quite a fella from what you described.
 
#16 ·
http://www.icollector.com/Mauser-S-42-1936-date-Luger_i15298142#

The above link leads to excellent pictures of a totally correct 1936 S/42 Luger. Note the slightly dull color and straw coloring of many small parts. The polish on these guns was not a "mirror" finish but a very well done ever so slightly rough texture where you can see the polishing marks. The original finish was a rust blue which is slightly dull compared to most modern guns. Nearly all the parts bear at least the last two digits of the four digit serial number. The pictures online show many different variations in color due to many refinished guns and especially the lighting of the gun during the photo process. Original guns have a slightly grey color not a deep black. Some guns were arsenal refinished and they usually look good but the colors may be wrong and often the light straw colored parts were blued to save time. a 1936 gun predates the use of the Swastika / inspector mark. If it were a commercial gun made for export it would have been marked Germany. The problem with stories and guns is that often they just plain do not match. They are second hand at best. The gun may have been acquired by him for any number of reasons at any time, a poker game, taken in trade for a debt owed, bought for self defense, and so on. Evaluate the gun by the fact alone. The gun can tell you exactly what it is through research.
Lugers do hold a special place in the world of guns just because. They are instantly recognized by nearly everyone. They have a very interesting history. They were were one of the best made pistols of all times. They hold some value no matter what condition because some always want one that can not afford a top of the line gun so they will pay less for a refinished one. There are many variations due to their use in the military of many nations.
 
#18 ·
Shoot it and enjoy it!

The question you have to ask yourself is, "Would John Wayne shoot it?"
Heck, of course he would!!
As long as you clean it properly after, it ain't gonna hurt it!!
 
#19 · (Edited)
The other folks have covered all the important points. As they have pointed out, it is a reblued "parts" luger. As I mentioned in an earlier post on lugers, if you look over "Amerian Rifleman" or almost any gun magazine from about 1948 until 1968, you'll find lugers for sale ranging from about $12 to about $50. Some of the ads offered "matching" examples, others specifically noted "reblued" or "reworked." The reblueing on your example is far better than any of the ones that came through the standard importers, whole sellers, or dealers. Yours is an example of the high polished blue that many ex-GIs thought looked good and was a fairly expensive process for the time. That deep, dark blue that you could almost reach down into was popular on the high-dollar commercial and custom guns of the day, so lots of folks had their prize lugers--some of which they had brought back from the war--done in the same way. Others liked chrome or nickel and had their lugers done up that way. Unfortunately, for collectors today reblueing and/or the chrome-nickel finishes almost destroy the value. There is hope, however. I recently looked into the cost of having a chromed luger "restored" to it's proper appearance and it was about $1500-$2000. If you keep yours long enough, there probably come a time when it is worth "restoring." There are three gunsmiths that do outstanding "restorations"---"the Luger Man," "Thor's Lugers," (may not still be around); and Doug Turnbull. Mr. Turnbull does not specialize in lugers, but he is the one I would choose.

One last note. That set of "red" books with the black letter that you mentioned is by Jan Still. He is pretty much the recognized authority on lugers these days. He operates a website devoted to discussion of lugers and someone above listed the address of his site.
Best of luck.
 
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