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what's the deal with '1911 guys' when you pull out a systema or molina?

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10K views 78 replies 34 participants last post by  BlackEagle 
#1 ·
was out shooting earlier and the glock crowd had the far end of the range. all black tight tshirts and tactical pants and such..

in the middle was evidentally a 1911 crowd.. there was a small buffer lane between the glocksters and the 1911mongers. I setup there as there were some families using the upper end of the range. the glocksters seemingle paid no attention to anyone other than their group. the 1911 crowd found time however to walk over and look at my colt systema and ballester molinas and endlesly criticise me and them .. i switched over to a 38/200 enfield and then a tt33 and finally a nagant using both the 762 cyl and the conversion acp cyl.

what's the deal with the intolerance among cliques?

just curious.

I like most things that turn chemical reactions into noise, smoke and holes in paper down range. i don't like the look of most glocks or high points.. but i'd take one over a rock during an apocalypse. ;)

is it an age issue? as in gun age? I think my guns.. and maybee mee.. were older than most other people there. :) my nagant revolver certaintly ws the oldest thing there.. :)
 
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#2 ·
It's because you didn't have a "real" 1911...and I bet not more than 10% of them didn't have a "pure" 1911 as designed by JMB either.
As for a Systema, like the Norwegian m/1914, it's a license-built copy of the 1911. So, I'd bet it's more of a "genuine" 1911 than what most of those 1911 guys were toting either.

Note, the quotes aren't mine but are just what I hear about my Springfield, Taurus, and Rock Island at my local public range from the snobby 1911 guys that have nothing but "real Colts" or overpriced Kimbers or customs on their rugs.
Doesn't bother me...I have just as much fun as they do.
 
#3 ·
Range snobbery can be a irritating, but then come-uppance can be sweet. A lot of years ago in NY I was sighting in a Garand or M1A (an "Army gun" to the snobbish elite), and at the next bench was a guy with the latest and greatest rifle/scope combo, a spotting scope that'd run me a week's pay, all the latest Cabellas togs, hat, glasses, etc. etc. He made no effort at concealing his disdain of having two peasants dressed in fatigues (my spotter and I) working the metal goat or pig target out at 300 yards. As was usual for the gongers, I was shooting offhand, '07 sling snugged up tight etc. After a satisfying series of "BONG!"s my spotter says "Okay, great, now let's concentrate on its' left eye". The goof at the next bench packed up his gear and left.
 
#6 ·
I have no problem having fun whatever I brought to shoot. Your story reminds me of my ,50 cal flintlock copy, guy next to me had a milk jug setup at 120yds on a rope, he was sighting in some fancy ar build, not hitting it, my buddy and I had milsurp ruskie sks, had my pyrodex gun with me, while leaving ar guy asks if we want to shoot his target and smirks, my buds throws the flintlock up and using standing. Not braces isocoliese stance, explodes the jug in a clue of smoke, perfect luck shot mind u but we didn't let on
 
#4 ·
I don't see that up here much. Now the shotgun trap/skeet ranges you do. Some of the new members go out and buy the best of everything. At least a $5000 shotgun and dress the part. All the latest high end clothing right out or the Beretta catalog. They think this will get them in with the in crowd at the club.

Being a good shot gets you in with the so called in crowd. All the fancy stuff doesn't impress these members. My son shooting 75 straight with his 1979 Remington 1100 did.
 
#5 ·
At the range where I shoot, if they cop an attitude, I just ask them to get off my property!
 
#7 ·
The last time we were at the range was a bit of a trip. We were there shooting the AR. As I started with the last magazine, my wife picked up all of our brass. Then she went back and started picking up other calibers. She had an idea for making necklaces out of them. Okay with me.

As she was picking them up, a shooter two tables from us with 4 AR's dressed to the max, walked up to her. He said to her in a better=than=thou voice.."" just what do you think you are doing "". My wife said '' picking up brass ". He said, ''what for"", she said "" because I want them "". He said "" and just what are you going to do with them "". She said " are they yours? "" He said ''No '', she said "" then what difference does it make to you what I'm going to do with them "". At that point he walked off.

The guys dressed as if's he's at an office in some upscale building. I was shooting, didn't hear about it until we got in the car. What an azzhole.
 
#8 ·
I'm fortunate to be able to shoot on my own property, but I do visit the range with shooting buddies. At my last trip there, as is usual, most of us handed our guns around and gave each other a chance at something they might not have shot before. So far so good and nearly at the end of the day I decide to run a few mags through my SIG 1911STX. One of the older folks with us had just pulled out his GI Colt, Asked him if he wanted to trade off a mag or 2. He declined. Later, when he thought I was out of earshot, I heard him telling one of the other guys there that he wasn't too fond of my guns as I seem to like them "a little to fancy". Geez.
And I find it's typically the Glockies that are most annoying.
To each his own.
 
#11 ·
When I hit the range, I make it a point to say hey to everyone and offer to let them run a mag through anything that I have brought. 99% of the time, they are friendly and even reciprocate. The other 1% I just chalk up to the guy having a severe case of ass-teroids.
 
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#12 ·
I dont like glocks and I make no bones about it. It doesnt mean I dont like the person shooting the glock.
 
#14 ·
was out shooting earlier and the glock crowd had the far end of the range. all black tight tshirts and tactical pants and such..

in the middle was evidentally a 1911 crowd.. there was a small buffer lane between the glocksters and the 1911mongers. I setup there as there were some families using the upper end of the range. the glocksters seemingle paid no attention to anyone other than their group. the 1911 crowd found time however to walk over and look at my colt systema and ballester molinas and endlesly criticise me and them .. i switched over to a 38/200 enfield and then a tt33 and finally a nagant using both the 762 cyl and the conversion acp cyl.

what's the deal with the intolerance among cliques?

just curious.

I like most things that turn chemical reactions into noise, smoke and holes in paper down range. i don't like the look of most glocks or high points.. but i'd take one over a rock during an apocalypse. ;)

is it an age issue? as in gun age? I think my guns.. and maybee mee.. were older than most other people there. :) my nagant revolver certaintly ws the oldest thing there.. :)
Soundguy,it sounds like you have pretty fun and intresting guns to me.I would have liked to shot them.Especially the tt33 and Nagant revolver.That's to bad they acted like Jerk-a-zoids.Gun people are mostly of a different mindset than most of the population out there.Always courteous and polite.
 
#19 ·
I was at JLA's range last year, to pick up one of my guns from him. He asked if I wanted to shoot his Glock. I don't much care for Glocks, they are ugly, and don't feel right in my hands. But I said sure, another chance to shoot bullets down range that I don't have to pay for! His Glock was still ugly, and it still didn't fit my hands right, but that dang pistol had one of the best triggers I've ever seen on a Glock! You never know!
 
#20 ·
When you see me shooting guns, you can bet that I'm wearing what I always wear. I don't own a pair of combat boots. I do have some camo pants, and shirts, but mostly for hunting, or casual wear. I think I might have to laugh at some nut job who shows up looking like he's in the Army, unless he really is.
 
#21 ·
I've never noticed a "snob factor" around my gun club. Guests are welcome on guest days and we have fun teaching them how to shoot. When they have a turn at my guns, I usually send them home with the targets and a big smile on their faces. We help each other out as and when we can...pass along cases, unused ammo, targets to try out; we give other members oportunity to shoot our guns and get to try out guns we don't have...yet ;). A lot of times I spend about as much time talking as I do shooting. Clothes, guns, cars are all status symbols for some, but we're all just glad to be there.

Sort of like this forum.
 
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#27 ·
Based on sixty-four years of life and something less as a shooter and observer of humanity, the primary reason a certain class of people instinctively criticize other's choices is ignorance and narcissism.

To explain further: A person with limited knowledge and experience defends his own point of view as 'superior'. This is much easier on one's mental processes than examining other's learning. It is much more satisfying to one's ego by being able to pretend superiority.

I really like the Government Model. I am a bit of a snob in that I own only Colt Commercial products and a couple 'other' makes, but G. I. issue pistols. I've owned a Ballester-Molina at one time. It worked quite well, actually. They are a bit harder to get replacement parts, but they don't break much. The grips crack easier than the JMB designed grips for the Government Model - not a major weakness. The 1927 Systema IS a licensed copy of a Colt. Other than the markings and country of origin, it IS a Colt in all functional terms.

Happily, I belong to a more or less private club. I don't share a range with the general public. Yes, we have our share of jerks, know-nothings who are sadly unaware of their plight and the obligatory fellow with more money than brains (has a lot of cool stuff, shoots about average.)

My plan for dealing with them all is to smile sweetly and let it run off me. If they have honest questions, I am delighted to share what knowledge I have. And, I can usually tell them where to go look to find out for themselves - always the best way to learn.

Oh yes. I was issued a Glock and forced to carry the thing a while ago. It worked 'okay'. It just didn't fit my hand very well (too big in grip circumfrance) and doesn't have any soul. I have no desire to own one.
 
#29 ·
I don't like Glocks and I used to give my buddy a good natured hard time bout his till it got stolen, but didn't stop me from shootin it ifn he handed it to me. Not a poly gun person but his Springfield XD was ok and accurate. I'll shoot anythin but don't mean I'll own it. I don't criticize a persons gun mainly cuz its not my money spent on it(I hope!!!). If another person likes it fine that's their choice.
 
#31 ·
Never had any of the "issues" you mention, when someone starts asking or looking at what I am shooting I offer them to shoot it. Generally this leads to a discussion and gun swapping for a few rounds. I have seen "uptight" fellows chill out and get interested after 1-2 shots on a Mosin.
Most times offer to let the "glock guys" kid shoot something different and they relax.

Not too different from the Ford/Chevy bunch is it?

Soundguy, I would jump at the chance to shoot your Molina. Wish I could find one.
 
#32 ·
I try to never criticize people or say negative things to them. There were many times in my life when I said a mean or petty thing and later wished I hadn't; I have never refrained from saying something like that and later wished I had said it.

This morning I drove my 1970 model Ford F100 to the shooting range with my daughter. We were shooting an old Taurus .22 revolver and an old FEG .32 acp together, and I was also getting a little practice in with my Turkish 1911 clone. My daughter mentioned that our old clothing and modest firearms drew a few snickers from the country club types next to us. They had special shooting outfits, designer sunglasses, and very shiny expensive looking handguns.

I was busy enjoying the moment and just shrugged when she mentioned it. Later on I was proud of her upbringing because she waited til they weren't looking to point their targets out to me with a little nod of her head. My groups were FAR tighter. I would have to admit that they were probably outshooting my daughter by a small margin, but since she is only ten years old that is probably not something to boast about.

Money can't buy you skill or good manners.
 
#33 ·
Heh, not many gun snobs here, thank God!!
I usually draw a crowd due to my habit of buying weird guns...
everyone wants to see what the heck I pull out of the range bags next :)


Although I've found its nice if I pay attention to when the other shooters empty out
when I've got one of the Calico's out...100 rds per mag can last awhile...:D
 
#34 ·
tallball, you're doing the right thing. You appreciate what you have, use it well and care for it, and you are teaching your children respect for others. The snobs probably don't have the same good character qualities you have. They may have more money, but you are richer by far than they are. Well done, and keep up the good work. Ignore it when the snobs make fun. That's their way of trying to make themselves feel better and more important than they really are.
 
#35 ·
There are range snobs and wanabe gun experts at most any range you go to.
A few years ago I was having a bit of target practice with my 30-06.

This gentleman comes up to me and offers to buy my rifle , claiming that it would be just right for his kid. I told him " sorry but its not for sale" He then says he would make an even trade . My rifle for a brand new Savage Axis that was still in the box. My answer was the same, NO.
He then offers to throw in a hundred bucks. My answer was still no. He finally says that I will never get a better offer for my old rifle and that I am passing up a really good deal. At this point I was so fed up with this jerk , that I finally held up my rifle and asked him if he could read. His reply was yeh, so what. The words on the rifle read Westley Richards . He then tells me "its just an old rifle".
 
#36 ·
I wouldn't have asked if he could read. I'd have asked if he could hear. Then if he understood English.

"What part of NO are you having trouble with?"
 
#37 ·

There's snobbery in no matter what you do.

Far as I'm concerned, if you show up at a range - no matter what you own to shoot - as long as you are safe, respect the rights of others and have a good time, I don't care what you shoot or how well you shoot it. That's your busieness - not mine. Yes, I have a 1943 Colt 1911A1, but that doesn't make me any better or worse than the guy shooting a Molina or whatever next to me.

The only part of the Ninja set that irks me is only because I was a professional soldier for many years, and people who pretend to be soldiers just rubs me wrong. Just like the hippies who pretend to have been soldiers, or the former soldiers who pretend to be hippies. I don't care for pretend anythings. But that's only an opinion.
 
#38 ·
was out shooting earlier and the glock crowd had the far end of the range. all black tight tshirts and tactical pants and such..

in the middle was evidentally a 1911 crowd.. there was a small buffer lane between the glocksters and the 1911mongers. I setup there as there were some families using the upper end of the range. the glocksters seemingle paid no attention to anyone other than their group. the 1911 crowd found time however to walk over and look at my colt systema and ballester molinas and endlesly criticise me and them .. i switched over to a 38/200 enfield and then a tt33 and finally a nagant using both the 762 cyl and the conversion acp cyl.

what's the deal with the intolerance among cliques?

just curious.

I like most things that turn chemical reactions into noise, smoke and holes in paper down range. i don't like the look of most glocks or high points.. but i'd take one over a rock during an apocalypse. ;)

is it an age issue? as in gun age? I think my guns.. and maybee mee.. were older than most other people there. :) my nagant revolver certaintly ws the oldest thing there.. :)
OK, first, don't take this the wrong way but there MIGHT just be a solution to your problem but you're gonna have to be open minded to see it. After reading your post twice I noticed that when you speak of your guns..... my colt systema, and ballester molinas and a 38/200 enfield a tt33 a nagant with the 762 cyl and acp cyl., you seem to very proud of your collection and perhaps......just perhaps, you expect everyone else to share your enthusiasm and stop what they are doing and come over to look at them. And when they don't seem to share your enthusiasm or don't even notice you come in, you create little names for them like the Glocksters and 1911 mongers and think they are cliquish because they dress similar or happen to like the same type of guns.

I've never seen you at a range of course so can't imagine what you are describing but if I were there and saw you wagging in an armful of guns I/d probably be curious and would likely walk over if you seemed to be a friendly sort and ask about them..... as I would think the vast majority of shooters would do. But think of this, I couldn't pick the guns you mentioned out of a line up for a $1,000 prize so don't feel offended if people don't appreciate what you have when they see them!

Just something to consider.
 
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