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New To NFA, NEED HELP!

2K views 14 replies 7 participants last post by  RJay 
#1 ·
Hello all, as you all can tell this is my first post on this forum. However, for a "friend", I did some googling (which produced no answer to my "friend's" situation), and did some reading of legalese style pdf's from atf.gov. And I am more confused than when I started.....

A bit about my "friend". He is a history buff, and fascinated by many things rare and unique. He is passionate about the preservation of history through knowledge, objects, writings, etc. He has no criminal back round, over 21 years of age, A libertarian by ideology and republican by practicality. He also is a collector of newer firearms for sporting use and self defense, and older firearms for their historical value. He is a supporter of the constitution, opposes any law that infringes on citizens rights, and supports the 2nd amendment to the letter. Overall, he's a typical, law abiding, American, and an alright guy :).

He has never had any dealing with the ATF, as he owns NO NFA-style items.

One day this friend has an chance to buy a WW2 war trophy, A Original German MG-42 brought back by a US serviceman. The MG-42 has been cut up in several places, in accordance with US Army practices of the time, when dealing with a solider sending back a captured gun. The MG-42 was never assembled and ended up in the hands of a Korean WAR veteran who has the MG-42 still in pieces and completely disassembled to this day.

My friend has no idea of any paperwork (ATF, amnesty registration, etc.) that will come with the MG-42, but he is assuming that there is NONE.

Now that Korean War vet is rising in his years, and would like to see the MG-42 get in to good hands, of a person that would appreciate what it is, and what it represents. So he offered a price so good on the disassembled MG-42 that it cannot be past up (unless the purchase landed him in front of a judge).

After the thrill of the idea of owning a piece of history wore off, my friend started to worry. Can he own this MG-42 disassembled and in pieces (the receiver is still intact) with the intentions of restoration? Can he work with the ATF in restoring this historical piece to it's original specifications, in a totally legal fashion? Are there provisions in the Gun Control Act and other gun laws the ATF has in it's arsenal to aid in the restoration of historical and war trophy pieces that may not have paperwork? Is it even legal to own this MG-42 in its current, inoperable, state of cut pieces and disassembled parts?!?!?!?

I recommended that he find himself a good, gun friendly, ATF/NFA knowledgeable attorney. But for the time being I am posting this situation of forums on the web. He has spoken of the MG-42 as a eventual family heirloom, and would love to lend it to Museum's so others can enjoy this piece of history. It would not be a weekend range toy. And it would be a REAL crime for this MG-42 to be melted down for scrap.

I would like to say again, my "friend" is NOT in possession of the MG-42 in question, and is only weighing his options, looking for advice, and trying to digest the Mind-spinning Gun Control Act laws..

Please, even though I am looking to this forum for advice, please do not start the "DOING THIS WILL SEND YOU TO JAIL, THE ATF WILL SEND YOU THERE" posts, etc. If that is true, explain why. The ATF is a bureaucracy that has its own rules and regulations to follow, not a omnipresent super being. I'm looking for hardcore facts, legal precedent, etc. The type of information that will keep my "friend" from accidentally crossing onto the wrong side of the law.

Thank you in advance.
 
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#2 ·
If the receiver is intact, the it is a gun. Does not matter if it is disassembled, it is a gun.

If the gun is not papered with the NFA, it cannot be papered with the NFA. Part of FOPA1986 said that no more machine guns could be registered with NFA.

Now, you say the gun is "cut". But you also said the "receiver is intact". NFA and ATF seem to be in agreement that, to make a machine gun no longer a machine gun, the receiver has to be torch-cut into (I believe) four pieces. And they even tell you WHERE the cuts have to be (to make sure it cannot be put back together).

So, as I read your question, if your "friend" were to take possession of that gun, he'd be looking at a long vacation at Club Fed, and a HUGE damn fine. Ten years and two hundred fifty thousand (yes, I said a quarter-million) dollars.
 
#3 ·
You need to hire an attorney. Mere possession of certain parts, granted in conjunction with other factors, may lead the ATF to conclude that you are in violation. You asked NOT to receive this sort of advice, but there is no other sort to offer you.

I am not an attorney, but I studied law many years ago. The specific language and statutes that you are asking for will only come from a qualified attorney. Good luck!
 
#4 ·
Ok dont shoot me. I know its a TV show and I cant say whats real or legal but on sons of guns, I have seen them reassemble a few old machine guns similar to what is being discussed here. They have rewelded and reassembled them for customers. If they can do it, why cant he?
 
#6 ·
They are a Type 2 SOT. They can do all kinds of stuff that regular people can't.

Also their customers aren't regular people. I saw one where the local sheriff brought in his personal Thompson 27 carbine to be converted to full auto, for his SWAT team to use. They did it. But that's not legal. If, however, he gave (or sold) the carbine to the Sheriff's Department, they could legally convert it, because police DEPARTMENTS aren't bound by the May '86 deadline.

If you go to Red Jacket, and you have a papered gun that is broken, they can fix it. They can reweld or reassemble or whatever is needed, because it is already papered. But you cannot paper one anymore. Have not been able to paper a machine gun for twenty-eight years.

And remember, it's television, and they lie a lot on TV.
 
#5 · (Edited)
at first this sounded like a dummy rcvr and essentially a 'parts kit' like you can buy online everywhere... ie.. wall hanger maker

then he said rcvr is intact... that makes me think a DEWAT

need to get clarification on that point.

AKAIK there is a difference between a DEMIL and a DEWAT

A DEWAT may have a steel welded breech and bbl

need more info on this gun and it's parts.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for all the info so far everyone.

When I said "Please, even though I am looking to this forum for advice, please do not start the "DOING THIS WILL SEND YOU TO JAIL, THE ATF WILL SEND YOU THERE" posts, etc. If that is true, explain why." I did not mean that I was trying to stop answers I did not want to hear. I was just trying to stay away from general responses that have a tendency to become repetitive. If ownership of this piece of military history will send my "friend" afoul of the law, please show me where I can find the statue in the law that says that (e.x. Gun Control Act 1986 ch. XX sec. XX (x) ). I Know this is a lot to ask, but the MG-42 is starting as pieces, and with a miracle, could end as a full functional museum quality piece of History. And I am assuming that with every step from start to finish could violate a different federal statue (this is another example of why gun laws are non-sense. Of course it should be a law that a convicted felon, or a individual with violent schizophrenia should not have access to guns, that's just common sense! But the current state of gun control laws seems to have been specifically designed to entrap the law abiding, American gun enthusiast, who's only goal is to preserve a little piece of world history.... but that subject is for another thread..

The receiver on this MG 42 was not torch cut, or had it's bolt wielded closed, back in the mid-1940's. And my "friend" is under the impression that extra care was made to not do irreversible damage to the MG 42, when it was cut into pieces in Germany for transport back to the United States. I assume the solider wanted to put it back together, but never got the opportunity (that's just a guess though).

Is there an ATF serial number database to see if the MG-42 was registered under the amnesty act, or registered as a machine gun, etc.?

Also, I have heard of MG-42's being converted from FA to SA and being sold as a nonNFA firearm. I have seen single action MG-42's for sale online. Lets, for arguments sake, say my "friend" sees no way that he will be able to keep the gun full auto and obtain ownership of the MG-42 and not break any laws. So he decides the we wants to do a single action conversion to it. It's one of his favorite guns and would be willing to put the money and time into refinishing the gun, and converting it into SA. How can that be done, when mere ownership of the pieces constitutes a felony. Is this true? How have Semi-Auto MG-42's, being advertised as being of original parts, have made it to the consumer level?

Lets take it a step further. My "friend" would rather have the gun put together, and refinished, in a non-fireable state, than know that it could eventually be melted down for scrap metal by the government. This would make the gun essentially a expensive piece of badass furniture. however it seems that no matter what, my "friend" would be entrapping himself when taking the MG-42 in its current state (dissembled and in pieces). Is this true?
 
#13 ·
The semi-auto machine guns did not have the receiver converted. They had brand new "semi-auto only" receivers made, and then the rest of the parts were added.

You cannot convert a fully auto gun to semi auto (remember, the receiver is the gun, to the US government and ATF). Once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun.

http://smartgunlaws.org/federal-law-on-machine-guns-automatic-firearms/

>The Firearm Owners' Protection Act of 1986: On May 19, 1986, as part of the Firearm Owners' Protection Act ("FOPA"), Congress banned the transfer and possession of machine guns with two exceptions:25

  • Machine guns that were lawfully possessed prior to May 19, 1986 may continue to be possessed and transferred provided they are registered in accordance with requirements of the National Firearms Act of 1934 ("NFA").
  • Machine guns may be transferred to or by, or possessed by or under the authority of, the federal government or a state, or a department, agency, or political subdivision thereof.
As a result, a person may not make, manufacture, or import a machine gun unless it is for a governmental entity. (Although there is no explicit ban on the manufacture of machine guns, FOPA's ban on possession of newly manufactured machine guns makes it impossible to manufacture a machine gun lawfully unless it is specifically intended for a governmental entity.) Unregistered machine guns are contraband, and there is no way to register a previously unregistered machine gun.<
 
#14 ·
Alpo is right, you can't convert a semi auto to full auto nor can you convert a a full auto to a semi auto.If it was made a full auto, regardless what it is now, it must be if it legally can be register class 3 and if you have a semi auto with the parts to make it full auto..then if you get caught you'll be in deep dodo .
I know this for a fact because I've been there.
About 25 years ago I went to a gun show and bought a M2 carbine that someone had converted to a M1 carbine, and if I wasn't already in enough trouble, I ordered the parts and made it full auto.
Well...I wasn't too worried about it and shot it everywhere.
Shame on me. Now it belongs to a nice gentleman who is a LEO.
 
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