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Laser-cast .45-70 help

11K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  Mule 
#1 ·
My dad bought some Laser-cast .45/70 350 gr pre lubed boolits at Cabelas a couple of weeks ago. Now guess who he wants to load em up? I've looked fer data but its hard to find. Found one load listed fer this bullet on handload.com. I've emailed the Co. that makes them but I'm always lookin fer more info afore I start. He is shootin a Marlin 1985 SS but fer him I'd like to start in the trapdoor range and move up from there to see where he can handle it. Also how much different is it to load cast instead of jacketed? Is there extra steps or precautions I need to be aware of? Usin RCBS loadin dies and have a LEE FCD to go with it.
Thanks Guys!!!!
 
#2 ·
Can't help with the load data but as far as loading lead over jacketed bullets...... If they're not gas checked you need to keep the speed down to help prevent leading and the case mouth needs a bit more flaring to prevent skinning the bullet as you seat it. I think LD loads for the 45-70, maybe he'll pop in with some advice.
 
#5 ·
Yes that is the one my dad bought. On hand I've a pound of IMR metal can unopened each of 4320 and 4350. They are a bit on the newer side of the metal can IMR powder. I can't remember what powder my dad has, but it all smelled good last March. And he's storin it in a military metal ammo can in a root celler. My dad told me when I get this figured out I can teach him how to do it.
 
#4 ·
LD is a great source here. My Lyman manual only lists 293/322/385 and 420 grain cast bullet loads. I load the 385 grain bullet for my Trapdoor Carbine. It is a wise move to start with the Trapdoor loads first as a caution. Pressures max out at about 17,000 C.U.P. for the Trapdoor loads. The pressure (C.U.P) for the Marlin loads max out at 28,300.

As far as 'different steps' in loading cast vs jacketed bullets, I'm not aware of any differences. If there is a difference, maybe it is just ensuring that you have a clear 'bell' on the case mouth to prevent lead shaving when seating the bullet. Of course when you seat and crimp the bullet you loose that bell.
 
#6 ·
Looking at my cast bullet book, niether IMR-4320 or IMR-4350 are going to do you any good for cast bullet reloading, especially for .45-70.

You may find something different than I have listed, but the most useful powders for what you are looking to do are going to be: IMR-4198; IMR-3031; RX7; IMR-4227 and maybe Unique or 2400.

My own experiance - and take it or leave it - is that IMR-4320 and IMR-4350 are very useful in jacketed bullet loads, but rare as hen's teeth for cast rifle bullet loads.
 
#7 ·
He asked I replied. I know my dad has more stuff but like I said I can't remember what. Obviously we would like to use somethin we've already got. I did later find a website where a guy was usin 53 gr of IMR 4350 behind this boolit. If that falls in line with properly published data then great, if not I'll keep lookin. Like I said though I need somethin that won't kick like a mule.
 
#8 ·
You should be using trapdoor loads to minimize the leading and the recoil. 45-70 in light guns is punishing. Get your dad one of the wearable recoil vests with the Sorbene rubber pad.

Use the data for the 385 gr cast bullets. Hodgdon lists data as does Lyman. IMR4350 is way too slow of a powder for 45-70. You need to use the burning rate powder closer to fast rifle powders like IMR4227 and no slower than H4895. Both manuals give lots of choices for 45-70 and none use powders as slow burning as IMR4350. IMR4350 is for cartridges like 30-06.

My 45-70 is a Browning clone of the Winchester 1886 lever gun. I don't use cast bullets because I hate the thought of cleaning out the lead deposit left behind unless you use a gas check bullet. I found that the bulk Remington 300 grain jacketed hollow points shoot the best in my gun. I use IMR4227 at a lever rifle load level. The load was found in a publication expressly for 45-70's and works well in my 1886. But the recoil is definitely there.

There are no special step for reloading cast bullet except as mentioned above to get enough of a bell on the case mouth so as to preclude stripping lead off the bullet as it is seated. Do make sure that the Cartridge Overall Length of your reloads will feed through your gun. Lever guns are sensitive to COL.

LDBennett
 
#11 ·
Thanks all. LD I learned that bout col when learnin to reload. All I've loaded fer so far is my .30-30. I've never even opened this can of 4350 its still got the vacuum seal thingy on it. I do have 4320 but it might even still be to slow. I still haven't called him to see what other powders he has since I haven't even set my bench back up from movin back to town. Steve thank you fer postin that incase anyone else has this question.I emailed them and they emailed me that back the next business day. Very helpful to do that and so quickly to.
I've also read that if you can't find load data fer cast you can start at the low end of jacketed and work up. Is there much truth to this?
 
#16 ·
I don't believe he has trailboss. He is goin to Cabelas in Wichita next week and should get somethin that works I hope. My local supppier has 3031 but I've not any money and he's never sent me any.
 
#17 ·
Yeah, I know, punting a 2 year old thread. :eek:

I am preparing (in the next month) to start reloading .45-70.
I've researched the piss out of it but still don't feel like I know everything I should. :)

My question is this: Will Trail Boss meter correctly in a Hornady Powder Measure? I experimented with 4895 and it did NOT meter, and 'grinded' the powder, not good!

Token picture of my once-cleaned brass. I am going to buy the dies and a case length gauge next week. After resizing I'll run them through a 2nd time in the ultrasonic cleaner.
 

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#18 ·
If your powder measure will cut a stick powder, it will likely mangle the donut shaped trail boss which meters like a cross if long stick and big flake.

I hand charge my 45-70 trail boss loads with a dipper I made out of a cut down case, after I found the charge I like

Good luck
 
#19 ·
In a tiny publication on 45-70 loads."The .45-70" by Konrad F Schreier, and others I found that IMR4227 was a viable choice for this cartridge. It meters well, and gives adequate velocities and accuracy. I use it in my Browning/Miroku Winchester 1886 clone. Since this is a modern firearm made of modern gun metals I use a load that results in about 1800FPS for a 300 grain Remington Bulk HP bullet (the Remington bulk bullets shot more accurately for me than Sierra or any other name brand bullets I tried).

The 45-70 reloading tables in most manuals have three levels of power. The lowest is for Springfields, the next for vintage levers and most modern levers, and the highest energy ones are for the Ruger No.1 & 3, strong falling block actions. I stuck to the high end of the lever loads.

LDBennett
 
#20 ·
Trail Boss has always metered well for me in my RCBS drum measure. Probably as with may other handloaders I was a bit concerned about it because it is so "light and fluffy". It hasn't presented any difficulties or inaccuracies so far.

I don't believe any of us know all we feel we should. Welcome to the fraternity.

Regarding metering stick powders for me it seems to be as much a learned technique as anything. There will always be shearing of sticks once in a while but, it seemed to me the more I used them the better I got at it. I guess a very large part of that is because I mostly use stick powders. I still don't trust the measure completely when using them and always throw light then top it off by dribbling. Still, the vast majority of thrown powder charges fall within 1/10 of a grain so dribbling is minimal. If I loaded hundreds of rounds at a time I do believe I'd find a different method but for 10-40 rounds at a time it's no problem. My ancient Belding and Mull powder measure is still the most accurate and most consistent with all powders of any I've every used.
 
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#29 ·
5744 has a good reputation for loading in the old straight and straight taper cases. I finally came across a pound about a year ago and bought it but have yet to try it. I can't find any data for it in the weird cartridges I shoot. One of these days I'll have to extrapolate some loads or send the information off to a friend who has the Quickload program. The results everyone seems to get with it appear too good to not at least try it.

BigMak....you really need to find some Ffg black for that Trapdoor and live at least once....lol! Pyrojunk will work as will the other wanna-be imitations but they ain't the same. From a series of experiments I did back in the early 2000's with several wanna-be imitations if I couldn't get real black powder I'd be using T-7 rather than Pyrodex.

Mule, I've read and heard more than once what you said about Trail Boss and it's pressure. If what I've learned is correct there is no problems with it unless it is compressed then things get goofy....quick. Frankly, I can't imagine wanting to compress it, that isn't what it was designed for. I've had very good to excellent results with it in several cartridges and rifles.
 
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