The Firearms Forum banner

accidental full auto fairly common?

9K views 32 replies 20 participants last post by  68c15 
#1 ·
I was just curious how often you guys see it at the range. My Ruger standard has trigger issues causing it to go full auto so I grounded it until it's fixed. Then on Sunday I was sighting in my 7mm when the guy next to me has his AR go full on him. He promptly pulled the mag and benched it as well. What's really scary is he had 3 hangfires before hand.

It may be cool to some people and all but the thought of a missfire with a bullet stuck in the barrel during full auto scares the crap out of me. Plus it wastes ammo and accuracy sucks.
 
#2 ·
I personally have never seen this happen, I'm told it does, but I've never seen it. Full auto has it's place in the scheme of things, but not for me either.
 
#4 ·
Full auto happens every now and again. Some of it is due to poor matanance and some of it due to poor mechanical design. The Bernideli model 60 is prone to go full auto when the trigger group gets dirty. Another reason for going full auto is a stuck firing pin which can happen to most any semi auto.
And it has happened to me.
 
#5 ·
some of you need to read what happened to David Olofson. He loaned an older AR15 to a guy to shoot it before he was thinking of buying it off of Olofson.

The guy took it to a public range and it double fired a few times. Clearly a malfunction.
Some jerks at the range called the police and an investigation was started. The FEDs ended up doing a full on raid on his house siezings guns, computers, etc.

They took his 20 year old AR15 in question to a ATF lab and kept it for months trying to make it double fire again and couldn't. Finally after several tries, they used specific soft primer ammo and was able to make it double fire.
Then they classified his gun as a "machine gun" and charged him with a felony of transferring it to the other guy.
There was a sham of a trial and David got a 3o month sentence
This was covered extensively by Lou Dobbs and other media who were trying to fight this injustice.

http://www.infowars.com/malfunctioning-gun-sends-veteran-to-prison/
 
#6 ·
that's rough. it should have been flearly obvious that it was a malfunction and not a hack job. besides it not haveing a 3 position selector, i imagine the bolt carrier group and fire pin would have told the tale.


I have had an old greasy sks double on me 1 time, a simple pull of the trigger assy and application of some brake cleaner to the bolt and TA and it's never done it again.

I have fired legal full / selecto weapons. Aside from the ammo waste factor, and the fact that short controlled bursts still make a pattern on the target unless it is close. it is a tad fun. ;)
 
#7 ·
Like Carver, I've never seen it either. I have only been at the range a few times when anyone had a AR with them, of course I live in NY, maybe people are reluctant to take them out for fear that they may be at odds with some portion of the safe act.
 
#8 ·
I have never had it happen to me (by accident). I did, at one time in my life, have an M-14 and I bought a selector switch from Numrich, enough said.

I remember way back when I was 8 or 9 years old, my grandfather had a shotgun that went full auto every time he shot it. I do not have any idea what kind it was, I just know when he put three shells in it and pulled the trigger it shot three times.
 
#11 ·
I've seen this happen before too, George. And I can't remember what brand that gun was either. Like you I was only around 12, and didn't know anything about guns, other than they could be used to put meat on the table.
 
#12 ·
There is a problem legally whenever a gun fires more than once from a single pull of the trigger. The jerks at the BATF love to prosecute regular citizens (example above) because they are not criminals and are easy to find, and they can confiscate all their arms in the process. Real criminals have nothing and are hard to find. Honest law abiding citizen are easy, criminals hard to prosecute. It is a bad idea to admit to anyone or in any forum that you ever had a gun double or go full auto. If the BATF are so inclined (which they obviously are) they will investigate and make the errant arm go full auto or double by hook or crook and throw you in jail. My suggestion is this thread be removed (I know it is still in the ethers and can be recovered but maybe a simple search will not reveal it ???). The Government is always listening!!!! Don't make it easy for them to put you away.

LDBennett
 
#13 ·
I had a SKS that occasionally fired full auto for 2 - 4 rounds. A deep, thorough cleaning cured the problem, then I sold it to a friend with the warning to keep it very clean. I don't think I'd have a full-auto even if legal, and I certainly don't want one that gets to choose which it's going to be whenever it feels like it.
 
#14 ·
LD, I understand. That's why I immediately removed the mag from my standard, field stripped it, then took the whole thing apart when I got home. The old internals have been smashed and disposed of. The new internals from volquartzen will be here on thursday. I'm not sure how the guy at the range is handling his issue but from the look on his face I'd bet it's being addressed
 
#15 ·
68c15:

You did the right thing. Parts that cause the gun to double or worse need to be destroyed for legal reasons and so they don't get somehow used by others.

There is a mentality (I had it at one time) that triggers are just mechanical devices easily modified to make for "better" trigger pulls. The modification are done not understanding how critical engagement surfaces are both in length and angle as well as uniformity. I use to modify my triggers. I, at least, attempted to read everything I could find but in reality it was insufficient knowledge. None of my guns are dangerous but they could have been. I got a professional level video course on trigger jobs from AGI (no longer offered to non-AGI complete gunsmithing video course students) for a huge sum of money. But it taught me exactly how to do absolutely safe trigger jobs. If I follow the rules set up on the course video then the trigger job will be safe. Even if I use "drop-in" parts I know how to test that they indeed are safe. The trigger jobs that get done correctly are safe and give nice let-offs with minimal creep.

By the way, the Volquartsen drop-in trigger parts are superb in my experience.

LDBennett
 
#25 ·
I can remember other kids back in the early 60s talking about filing parts of their .22 Mossberg rifles to make them full auto, which young boys would consider really cool to have. But I thought it was just talk. Apparently it really can be done. Scary...
 
#17 ·
My friend's uncle used to have an SKS that would empty the mag at full auto every now and then even when the trigger was released. He was a little skeptical about getting it fixed as he was scared the feds would be on his six. Of course nothing happened and the gun got fixed no questions asked.

As for rimfires going full auto, I heard stories about the first generation models of Ruger 10/22s from the 1960s having it happen every now and then, but whether it's true or not is anyone's guess.
 
#19 ·
I've been at our private range when it happened, but not sure what the center fire rifle was, other than it was some surplus military rifle.
Do remember being in basic training at Ft. Polk in 1968 and we had M14 rifles. Our m14s were all semi-auto....none had a selector switch for full auto. Fellow trainee next to me on the firing line had a sear break in his rifle, causing it to go full auto on his first shot with a full magazine. Guy was small and we were shooting in a standing position. He tried to control the rifle by bringing it down to his hip. He managed to keep the rifle level, but recoil of his M14 was swinging the muzzle to his left. I happen to be next to him on his right and immediately dropped my rifle and tried to run to his aid. Fortunately for the 4 or so trainees to the left of him, he ran out of ammo just as the muzzle came even with them. It was an interesting day at the range.
 
#27 ·
Do remember being in basic training at Ft. Polk in 1968 and we had M14 rifles... Fellow trainee next to me on the firing line had a sear break in his rifle, causing it to go full auto on his first shot with a full magazine...He managed to keep the rifle level, but recoil of his M14 was swinging the muzzle to his left. I happen to be next to him on his right and immediately dropped my rifle and tried to run to his aid.
Lucky you were Army. You'd still be running in circles holding your rifle over your head, if you'd been a Marine.

Dropped your RIFLE?!?!?!?!?!?!? :eek:

:p :p :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ridgerunner2
#20 ·
I have had "slam fire" doubles and 3 round burst from residue in the firing pin on a .22 rifle; it has some wear-n-tear on parts which may have contributed. I replaced the firing pin and have had no issues since, but auto fire from a tube fed .22 is an interesting event.
My most interesting "double" was with a 20 ga. side by side when I was 12; my Dad caught me before I went full length into a pond...we were duck hunting at the time.
 
#21 ·
I had/have a Mossberg semi auto, a 151K? I think it was(is actually; I still have it), that I bought from the hardware I worked in in 1967 for $15 because it would dbl fire or more. A gunsmith tried to fix it and shot a hole in his roof and gave up. I took it apart - I was only 17 - and could see that the notch in the round hammer was not cut clean and had a little step that prevented at times the sear from engaging positively and it would shoot a few more shots or sometimes empty the 13-rd tube magazine - that was fun I can tell you. I tried to have the hammer fixed by a machinist but he lost the part and I had the gun for decades before I found a replacement. It shoots fine now and is very accurate. The basis for the malfunction was that the sear was pinned in the middle and rocked. The default spring-loaded position was to be against the round hammer and to engage the square sear notch when the hammer was coming forward following it being blown back. It wasn't undercut at all so that small step just let the sear bounce out of engagement and fire the next shot. It was a very simple fix had that machinist not lost my part. So, yes, small defects can cause dbl firing or more in some guns. Check the sear engagement and the sear for wear and the spring for tension. There's always some logical and visually obvious reason for it happening; you just have to find it.
 
#22 ·
When I was "correcting" one of my Garands, I swapped in some trigger components and the rifle began doubling. Scared the crap out of me the first trigger pull. I took the TG back apart, verified all was installed properly and tried again. Double fire. Once more with a reassembly, as slow as I could go. Another perfect double fire. No feed or eject issues, no full auto, almost as if it was intended to fire 2 round bursts. After that, the TG that came with it went back in and problem solved. Each of the individual parts from the problem TG spec'd out fine. I assume stacking tolerances was the cause. That SA M1 is still not correct, but is a fine shooter with it's HRA TG.
 
#24 ·
A person I know of bought a CMP M1 Garand from CMP. It had been field stripped and gaged by CMP and pronounced safe. The first outing resulted in funny sounds during firing. Closely listening revealed it was doubling. It turned out the CMP Tech had installed the safety backwards. Reversing it to the right way around fixed the problem. Nothing more came of it because it was not shot at a public range and no one but the shooter and his friend were aware of the problem. But what if this had happened at a public range and someone reported him to the BATF. Would they investigate...You bet cha! Who would be made responsible: the guy that pulled the trigger or the CMP Tech? How about both. The Government has many lawyers on staff who need things to do and prosecuting honest law abiding citizens is right up their alley. The BATF is the worst:Raids that have killed people, Fast and Furious, and they take no responsibility of any of their actions. Do not get in their sights...EVER.

LDBennett
 
#29 ·
Orlando:

OPPS.....After reviewing the parts diagram I remember exactly what the problem was: The hammer spring housing was installed upside down which interfered with the action of the secondary sear in recoil. Sorry about the confusion but his was maybe three years ago and old age is not great on the memory.

Once the trigger group was out of the gun I could see the hammer spring in the side of the hammer spring housing because there is a cutout on the housing that is suppose to be facing towards the back of the trigger group. The clearance cut is to allow the mechanism to work properly. Installed the way I found it, it jammed the operation of the secondary sear causing doubling.

My whole point is assembly mistakes even on the M1 Garand can make a gun unsafe due to doubling. The actual error in assembly is irrelevant as this is not a discussion of the M1 Garand but of guns doubling. But I suppose the error of assembly on the M1 should be correct. Thanks for pointing it out.

LDBennett
 
#30 ·
My really big OOPS was with a Colt 1911 on which I had just smoothed the trigger pull by ever so lightly stoning the sear mating surface. The pistol passed all static safety tests. I knew that the post trigger pull modification live test firing protocol was to load one, fire one; load two, fire one to ascertain that the trigger was safe and firing one round per trigger pull. However, I got distracted by a shooting partner while loading the magazine and put in seven rounds. Upon firing, the Colt dumped all seven rounds in about a second. Surprise was not even the word for it. After I got over the shock of seeing the locked open smoking 1911 with the muzzle flipped up to the ceiling, I noticed the intense galvanic taste of fear in my mouth. I immediately knew that I had done a very bad thing. Please learn from my rather monumental basic gunsmithing safety error.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top