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My reloading has come to a halt!

5K views 56 replies 25 participants last post by  Standup2p 
#1 ·
Well, at least until I can find a reliable powder scale! First, I'm not automated, and don't care to be, I enjoy loading my relaxed one at a time method. When I load powder charges I set 100 cases out in a tray then use the scale shown below that came with my Hornady Lock N Load set to weigh the powder. I use the Hornady Lock N Load powder measure to dispense slightly below my target weight then use a trickle tube to top the powder off at the exact weight I want.

Last night I was loading 5.9 grains and all was well until I noticed one measure was taking more than the others and filled the case noticeably higher than the others so I zeroed out the scale, set the tare and poured the powder back into the measuring pan and it showed 7.2 grains! I took a close look at the other filled cases and noticed very slight variations among them as well so remeasured everything. The bottom line was that I was loading between 5.5g to 7.2 according to the scale I had but at this point had lost all faith that it was even giving me accurate readings at all!



Obviously I am going to replace this scale with one that I can be confident in but having a look around, most of the scales are electronic as well hence my dilemma.

If you do have one of the better electronic scales how do you know yours is accurate other than sitting a weight and calibrating it now and then? After the misreadings last night I calibrated mine again and it LOOKED fine but was still giving erroneous readings even after replacing the batteries.

I am leaning towards the Hornady "Lock N Load" Auto charge scale for $170 which appears to be a nice scale and dispenser combined but part of me tells me to go with one of the "Balance Beam" mechanical scales instead.

Any thoughts, recommendations or suggestions?
 
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#2 ·
Show Low
When I first started reloading, I used a mechanical scale, which I still use today. I thought many times about going to a digital scale but after reading the good and the bad about them, I have stayed with the mechanical scale. I use the ELIMINATOR scale by Dillon and am very happy with it. You will get many opinions about whether a digital or mechanical scale is better. The bottom line is you must decide for your self on which you prefer to use. The only thing I will say about my scale is that I do not have to worry about AC or battery power and that once set for a session I do not need to recalibrate it during that session. Good luck on your decision and be safe reloading.
Chuck
 
#3 ·
Do you have florescence lights near you. I think 3 feet is a witching distance if I recall correctly. I use the same scale after I calibrate it to verify my mechanical scale is correct. Then I stay with the mechanical scale. I do wipe the knife on my mechanical scale with a dry q-tip then a damp oil q-tip with light oil to prevent the knife from fighting the pores in the cradle. Hornady told me to do this after I noticed having to re-toggle the beam when trickling up. This might be needed for just my scale and not all Hornady scales and I can't speak to any others.
 
#5 ·
Yes I have the room lit with fluorescent bulbs but they are attached to the 9' ceiling so are easily 6' away from the workbench.

I never realized there are so many scales or should I say so much of a price spread. I just found a site selling electronic scales that run into the thousands.
 
#8 ·
I'm happy with my Hornady beam scale, but the Redding looks nice too.

I've got one of those electronic Hornady scales too and got tired of all of the things that have to be just right for it to work properly. The scale has to acclimate to the reloading room if you store it elsewhere, allow to warm up for something like 30 seconds before calibrating, and then the slightest breeze will throw off your weights with no visible indication that it is happening.
 
#10 · (Edited)
First off, I would double-check the environment you're using the scale in.
As mentioned, flourescent lights or a even switch-mode style power supplies will throw off interference that will mess with a load cell setup. Basically, anything with a high-frequency switch mode power supply (like cellphone or tablet/laptop supplies) or high-voltage (flourescents, TV, etc) can give the scale fits.
Check to see there isn't any drafts in your reloading area...they'll throw off a beam scale too, not just an electronic one.
Bench, the shelf, or whatever the scale is sitting when in use. Is it stable, level, and the scale not rocking around?

Next, I would contact Hornady and ask them about exchanging it. You might have a defective scale.
They're usually pretty good in the customer service dept. I've never had problems with dies and other mechanical parts. No experience with their electronics though. It might just be a garbage model too...

Any scale can give erroneous readings if your technique isn't consistent...even a beam scale (not nearly as likely though). Double-check that your scaling technique is consistent. That thing has a pretty big platform on it. Make sure you set the pan in the same spot with each charge...preferably centered on the pad so it's got the most direct alignment with the loadcell.
I've got an older Lyman 3-0-something that is inconsistent if the pan hanger gets bumped around on it's loop. The bearing "knife edges" aren't very sharp on that scale anymore which is most likely why it'll change.
My PACT Precision will go nuts when a train goes by the house in town (about two blocks away), and it's sitting on a very solid bench bolted to my concrete basement wall...the whole ground will shake a bit with that train traffic. My good Lyman or my Redding beam scales will wiggle too though. Either of em are pretty good if I have it sitting on a piece of neoprene matting but If I hear a train I still take a break from scaling charges.
I had to move my scales to that separate shelf since even running a powder measure mounted to the bench would make them twitch a bit.

At one point in time, nearly all of the reloading beam scales were actually made by Ohaus, which is a big commercial scale maker. Except for the cheap plastic Lee Safety Scale, there isn't any particular one that I'd recommend. They're all pretty good. (I know...lotsa guys using the little plastic Lee with good luck)
When digitals first appeared on the scene there weren't many around on the reloading scene. PACT was the pioneer and made their scale in a different color for RCBS too.
Now, everyone has a digital scale in their catalog. The problem is most of em are cheap battery powered units. Even with the higher priced plug-in units quality can be hit or miss since there are just so many companies making them now. All the load cells and electronics are made overseas and you just don't know how good the components are unless you get a certified scale or just plain test the heck out of it yourself.

If you search through the back posts here, there's several threads on what scale to choose. and they're all pretty lively discussions too.
Me, I prefer a good 110v powered digital. I tend to tell folks to shy away from the entry-level models and move up a notch or two.
Steve32k has had very good results with a little battery powered digital that he bought off of amazon.
And then there's all the guys who want nothing to do with a digital and will use beam scales only.
Every one has their own preference...makes it confusing to get a good recommendation. Kinda like reading this whole long-winded reply. :D

--edit--
Fixed some typos. Sorry bout butchering your handle Steve32k!
 
#11 ·
Good discussion, Bindernut! :)
As you say, there's many scales, and as many opinions as users. I've got a Ohaus triple-beam myself, but it's for chemical laboratory use primarily, and converting from milligrams to grains is tedious. I haven't tried the electronic scales yet, but I distrust load cells that tiny. I used to make my own with strain gages and instrumentation amplifiers, but they weren't accurate under a few grams. I know the technology has improved tremendously, but it's hard to break old habits.:oops:

The RCBS beam scale that came with my turret press kit has worked very nicely. The only adjustment required is leveling it, and the only care it requires is an occasional dusting. I've read here a few complaints about beam scales taking forever to settle down, but the magnetic damping on this thing is perfect - never any overshoot. For a low cost scale it's a great tool, and I'd recommend it to Show Low anytime.
 
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#14 ·
George, I had a very similar experience with the same scale. I was working up some test loads and was trickling into the pan on the scale. The scale would not react to the trickled increase. When I lifted the pan off and then back on, the scale reading would jump up to what appeared to be a correct weight. I am convinced you cannot get accurate readings when trickling onto this scale.

After a bunch of research, I purchased the Lyman Accutouch 2000. Its is AC/DC, without out that stupid 60 second auto power off, has a large bright display, and comes with a trickler which mounts on the scale. That tells me you can trickle accurately on the scale. I bought it from Midsouth who had the best price.

I also have a balance beam scale.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for all the thoughts guys, this afternoon I ran down to the local shop and picked up the little RCBS 5 0 5 and so far am tickled pink with it. Talk about accurate, I can trickle powder and watch the arm move towards center, something I couldn't do with the electronic scale as Randon mentioned!

I watched a video done by one of the members here, highboy, and watched how accurate his Hornady was and mine reacts the exact same way.

For now it is all I need but after watching a few videos on the Hornady Auto charge, I still may see that in my near future.
 
#16 ·
Good choice, Show Low! I have the 502, and I'm not sure what the difference might be, but the basic design is the same and it's given me no trouble whatsoever since the day I bought it. I started out weighing every charge, then I got a RCBS Uni-Flow powder dispenser and changed my routine to every 5 rounds. After months of never finding a discrepancy large enough to require re-adjusting the Uni-Flow, I changed my routine to spot check every 10th round, and then to every 25th. I don't plan to reduce the frequency of my spot checks any further, because statistically this is a pretty good sampling rate for reliable production. The combination of these two machines produces a reloading setup which, with very little practice, makes very consistent, reliable ammunition.

By the way, I know you're not supposed to, but I use this setup for loading pistol rounds down to 3 gr, and I still find it to be consistent and reliable. That's only for spherical powders, though; I don't think I'd trust the Uni-Flow at such tiny loads with any larger powder forms. But for rifle loads, a couple of tenths on 40 gr won't make a measurable difference, and I wouldn't be worried about it.

The only part of your new scale that you need to care about is the fulcrum; keep the knife edge of the beam and the V-groove in the base clean and free of dust and lubricant, and it should outlive you and your children without losing any accuracy.
 
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#23 ·
keep the knife edge of the beam and the V-groove in the base clean and free of dust and lubricant QUOTE]

When I trickle up, I'd notice when I checked the balance by tapping the beam to see where it settled that sometimes it would not be at the same spot I trickled up to. I called Hornady and they said to wipe it dry with a q-tip, then put a drop of 3:1 or some light oil on the q-tip then wipe the knife and v-groove. When finished with the session, q-tip them both with alcohol. That resolved my beam issue. They said the sharpness of the knife was dragging on the pores of the v-groove and the oil would resolve that. I haven't tried it just dry in awhile so maybe it has worn down to not need the oil. The alcohol was to prevent the oil build up causing errors. It took care of my problem but I don't want to do this the rest of my life. Your post reminded me that may be I can see if that is still an issue in hopes that it has finally smoothed out. If not, I'll see if Hornady will resolve my issue. But I know they will say send it in and then I have to wait for the return and possibly it worked for us and nothing is done and be stuck with the same issue. May be I can get a 5-0-5 in the meantime. Can never have enough reloading equipment!!! Have to ponder that one....
 
#18 ·
If you had a ceiling fan or air conditioner on, it can mess up your scale. I shut everything off before I weigh powder. Its always good to have a balance beam scale if only to verify the electronic scale readings.
 
#25 ·
I use the Hornady GS1500 just like the O.P. has. I have only had two issues of this type. The first one was due to using the "Original" batteries that it came with so I changed them to Duracell. The second time was when the Duracell batteries were low.

I would try replacing the batteries with the Duracell. From my experience Duracell puts the best battery out and that is from first hand experience. I have used all of them and the Duracell works best. Try the Duracell batteries.

BTW,,, I have had my digital scale directly under fluorescent lights and have never had an issue. I do know they can cause issues and so can atmospheric pressure but neither has caused me any problems.

However, I still prefer my beam type scale and the Redding Model No. 2 is my favorite.

Highboy
 
#26 ·
I use the Hornady GS1500 just like the O.P. has. I have only had two issues of this type. The first one was due to using the "Original" batteries that it came with so I changed them to Duracell. The second time was when the Duracell batteries were low.

I would try replacing the batteries with the Duracell. From my experience Duracell puts the best battery out and that is from first hand experience. I have used all of them and the Duracell works best. Try the Duracell batteries.

BTW,,, I have had my digital scale directly under fluorescent lights and have never had an issue. I do know they can cause issues and so can atmospheric pressure but neither has caused me any problems.

However, I still prefer my beam type scale and the Redding Model No. 2 is my favorite.

Highboy
I didn't mention it but I changed batteries when I noticed the scale acting up but it didn't change the results, it kept giving false readings. I called Hornady and they sent me a prepaid UPS label to use when sending the scale back to them and I took a photo of the scale to show them an example of the erratic readings, here is the photo. Six different readings with the same weight! It finally decided to hang on 99.985 regardless of what was put on the scale so I'm still calling it a defective scale. I'm not going into it further, it's boxed up ready to ship
back. For those convinced it's operator error, think what you will, but there is still a condition known as defective merchandise and that is what I have here.

 
#27 ·
Wow! Is that all the variation you're seeing? That's 99.98 +/- .0109 g, an error of about .01%! If that's the worst you're seeing, there's nothing wrong with that scale.

That being said, you're working it at the low end of its range, and most sensors get a little worse at the extreme ends of their measurement ranges. Try weighing a new dime ( 2.68 g = 41 gr) ten times and see what kind of variation you get.

Oh well, you've got it boxed up and ready to ship; I'm glad Hornady is being so helpful. Most of the vendors seem to have great customer service, so hopefully this will get sorted out to your satisfaction.:)
 
#29 ·
I'm happy with my Hornady beam scale, but the Redding looks nice too.

I've got one of those electronic Hornady scales too and got tired of all of the things that have to be just right for it to work properly. The scale has to acclimate to the reloading room if you store it elsewhere, allow to warm up for something like 30 seconds before calibrating, and then the slightest breeze will throw off your weights with no visible indication that it is happening.
I also thought that the Redding scale would be a great item to have. I bought this as a companion to the old RCBS scale that I've used for 30+ years. It only took a very short period of time to see that I should have purchased another RCBS scale. The Redding scale is much more difficult to zero and set, than the old RCBS. I don't know if Redding makes their own scales, but the RCBS is made by Ohaus, true masters at their craft.
 
#30 ·
Showlow, not that it matters now, but in your opening post you did mention that you did change the batteries. Must be you didn't use durecell, as highboy suggested, but it seems pretty shakey that unit like that will only work right with a certain kind of batteries. Glad my 505 doesn't need batteries case all I have got around my house is ever ready batteries.;)
 
#31 ·
I seriously doubt the brand of batteries would make a bit of difference, I think he just likes Duracell, I buy whatever is on sale when I need batteries, these happened to be the little Easter bunny brand.

After using the little RCBS beam scale quite a bit yesterday I am beginning to really like it. Often, it's the little things that make using a product ease, an example being the long pointed powder pan that easily pours the powder into the cases without needing a funnel.

I went ahead and ordered the Hornady Lock N Load Auto Charge Dispenser and plan on using it when I load at least 100 cases of the same powder but will continue to use the beam scale when I only load a few rounds of different powders when doing my comparisons.
 
#33 ·
I didn't mention it but I changed batteries when I noticed the scale acting up but it didn't change the results, it kept giving false readings. I called Hornady and they sent me a prepaid UPS label to use when sending the scale back to them and I took a photo of the scale to show them an example of the erratic readings, here is the photo. Six different readings with the same weight! It finally decided to hang on 99.985 regardless of what was put on the scale so I'm still calling it a defective scale. I'm not going into it further, it's boxed up ready to ship
back. For those convinced it's operator error, think what you will, but there is still a condition known as defective merchandise and that is what I have here.

Companies always guarantee scales to be within a tenth of a grain and your scale is with in one-thousandth. That is acceptable.
 
#34 ·
Did you even read my first post? If not perhaps you should read it, or if you did read it then re-read it again, especially the second paragraph before declaring that I have an acceptable scale!

Did you catch the part where I said the scale was displaying 5.9g all along when I was measuring the powder BUT when I caught the discrepancy and started pouring the powder from the cases back onto the pan on the scale I was getting readings ranging from 5.5g to a high of 7.2g? This was after fresh batteries and resetting the tare on the scale. Was this the part that you considered acceptable?

The 5.9g load I was using is the max load of 6.6g per Hornady's published load data reduced by 10%. I have a hard and fast rule of always visually checking the powder in the cases before seating the bullets but had I not caught the excess powder in the case, I would have loaded a 7.2g charge which was .6g higher than the max load. May not be a big deal to you but it is to me!

To summarize.... The scale weighed a charge one time as 5.9g then upon weighing the SAME charge again, it showed 7.2g. Put that in your calculator and tell me if it exceeds the manufacturers tenth of a grain tolerance!

You still think my scale is acceptable? Hornady seemed to think there was enough of a problem to authorize a prepaid shipping label to return the scale to them for replacement.


Good grief!
 
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