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Mod 94 Bolt Does Not Close Completely

3K views 11 replies 2 participants last post by  LDBennett 
#1 ·
I recently bought a Winchester 66 Centennial Commemorative. It is very nice with the original box & packing but has been shot and I got it for a very good price. Anyway I noticed when chambering a round the lever becomes tight at the final point of closing, and with some rounds would not close completely. I have closed it without a round in the chamber and notice the bottom of the lever will NOT make contact with the bottom of the receiver without a little extra force and has a little 'spring' to it before it does 'bottom out' ALSO - when squeezing the lever to close I can feel the extractor lifting slightly with every squeeze of the lever.

NOW - I have another Commemorative (Buffalo Bill) and it closes properly. The bolt closes firmly with the extractor slightly above the bolt in the channel, and the lever makes contact with the bottom of the frame with little effort (normal feel) and there is no of the 'springing' of the extractor when it is squeezed closed.

I have NOT yet taken it apart completely for a complete cleaning (which will also become an action job & polish all internals) so it could be something as simple as 'gunk' in the action but I was hoping to get some guidance on this if it persists after a complete cleaning. Thanks!

ED
LaPine, OR
 
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#2 ·
Don't discount the possibility that the chamber is not reamed properly. Either get a go-nogo gauge or take it to a gunsmith and have it gauged. With a mirror inspect the chamber.

I have a absolutely beautiful Browning BAR that I bought years ago that was the same as your 94. After much inspection and contemplation I found that one of the reaming steps had been missed at the factory. The production reaming is done in two steps. the first step gets the body of chamber and the second step gets the forcing cone between the end of the case and the rifling. mine had a visible step which jammed some rounds making the bolt almost full close. A trip back to Browning when nearly new fixed the problem. any good gunsmith could do yours with a standard reamer, I would think, if that is the problem.

It may also be that the extractor cut in the breech of the barrel is not done right and the extractor is causing your problem. Compare the cut with you other 94. They should match.

I too have one of these Centennial 94 but bought new. There were a limited number of them. My gun dealer had a list you had to get on with a pre-payment to get one. The wait was long and the list for this dealer was about 100 people. I am not a collector so I shoot mine. I just had to have a Winchester Model 94 that represented a 100 years of the Model 94. The gun is of superior quality to the regular 94's being made at the time but as you know has all the modern safeties. It shoots well and looks good. It was not that long after that that Winchester closed its plant for good. Today many Winchester are made by Miroko in Japan (much superior to any late Winchester products). FN makes some of the bolt guns in America.

LDBennett
 
#3 ·
LD - thanks for the reply. The more I think about it I believe it MAY be the extractor as you mentioned. Reason is when I open the action and push the bolt forward closed with my thumb I get the same 'springing' action of the extractor which prevents full closure. Being as the problem is magnified with a round in the chamber makes me believe this to be to root of the problem. I still need to perform a complete tear down and cleaning first before I start getting serious with this however.
 
#4 ·
MisterEd:

Before you tear it down, compare it to you other Model 94 for the extractor cut. Also check to make sure the barrel is fully tight in the receiver. It may be clocked ever so much off and is partially blocking the extractor or the extractor has to cam over to get into the cut. The cut may not be wide enough, too.

LDBennett
 
#5 ·
I checked the extractor cut and it may be just a bit narrow as the extractor is making contact with one side of the opening and I can see a wear spot beginning but not too bad. The bolt face is a little rough also and may need polishing. It is definitely getting better as I cycle the action so I am thinking a complete disassembly, cleaning and knock off all the 'rough' edges of the internals and apply Gunslick to everything and start shooting it regularly and dry operating the action and I think it will smooth up as my Buffalo Bill did. I too bought one of the 'last' Winchesters before they closed their plant - a 16" Trapper in .357. It too took a lot of work to get it to operate smoothly and consistently.
 
#6 ·
The Centennial Model 94 did seem to be made to higher fit and finish standards than the normal production Model 94's made at the same time. They were tighter. The much earlier commemoratives were a bit sorry for fit and finish. I have the NRA rifle and it is loose and rattles a bit. Pre 1964 Winchester levers were also made to better fit and finish standards.

The current Model 94's (and 92's) are made by Miroku in Japan. I have several of the Miroku/Browning Winchester lever clones and they make even the pre-64 Winchesters look bad. The fit and finish even internally surpasses any real Winchesters that I have seen.

LDBennett
 
#7 ·
Yea my '68 Buffalo Bill is pretty well finished and tight but this '66 Centennial is a bit rough on the inside. I'll certainly be able to smooth it up but the fit on the internals leaves a lot to be desired. I handled a Miroku Mod 1973 the other day and you are right - incredible fit and finish but hard to justify the price for something made by the J. A. Pan company!
 
#8 ·
It is difficult to buy American these day including guns. For some time Japan has been a premium manufacturer of cars, motorcycles, other high end products and guns. Miroku is top notch. It is doing yourself a dis-service to eliminate Japanese guns from your choices. It is a world market and not even Winchester makes all its guns in America. Browning guns are made all over the world. FNH owns Winchester and Browning and makes some guns in America and others all over the world. And then there is the fact that many of the CAD/CAM machines used to make "American" guns are Japanese machine tools and some of the best made anywhere.

My position is to buy the guns that are made to the highest standards of fit and finish and when it comes to lever gun Japan has the edge. Marlins are made in America and of the ones I have owned and worked on NONE we accurate and all had a utilitarian finish and fit. Savage's recent guns are a gamble: some are very accurate and others not so much...American craftsmanship! We all get to choose but limiting gun purchases to American made guns may not get the the best products. That's my opinion and yours may vary.

LDBennett

PS: I repeat the Centennial Model 94 is superior to any Commorative Winchester Model 94 that I have seen or handled or owned. I did not find my Centennial Model 94 rough but just tight. Mine was from the first shipment and it may be later shipments, if there were any, were less nice (??). The Centennial Model 94 was made in America.
 
#9 ·
No I completely agree with your position on Japanese craftsmanship. It's just I have a common 'stigma' attached to certain items of original US Mfg. now built in Japan and guns are one of them. I have heard others express the same position including one who had a problem wrapping himself around the notion of an item being built in a country where it is not even available to the citizens OF that country. But I do not disagree with the typical quality of Japanese made products and maybe I need to buy a Miroku to 'break the spell' - but I have a hard time with the $1850.00 or so retail I saw on the Mod 1873 !
 
#10 ·
As the last Miroku lever gun I bought new was way over 20 years ago, I did not see pricing like you suggest back then. You might be able to find them on the used market for lots less.

It turns out that, as you probably know, the problem with building these clones of Browning designed/Winchester made guns is the the labor costs in America. Japan's labor use to be cheap but no more. The Italian clones are cheaper but lesser guns than the Miroku guns.

So to play with the big boys you have to pay the price.

LDBennett
 
#12 ·
While the Model 73 is an interesting lever gun it is not the first John Browning design or even a John Browning design at all. His designs were the single shot of 1885, 1886,1892, 1894, 1895, and 1892 variations, the model 53, 65, and 71. I may have missed a couple. But most of those have been cloned by Miroku over the years with the latest 92 and 94 caring Winchester name, too.

LDBennett
 
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