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Luger Question

4K views 9 replies 3 participants last post by  sck 
#1 ·
What does the symbol under the barrel mean? It looks like a scripted "O"
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#2 ·
Welcome to the forum Don, you opened an old thread to pose your question so I am moving your post over to the Technical Questions and Information forum.

I do believe that when the Luger's were made the serial numbers started at 1 and ran through 9999. When they hit the 10000 mark they started back at "1" and added a cursive letter under the number. So they had already made something like 150,000 when they started on the "O" series.

I am sure someone witdh more knowledge will come along and be able to tell you if I am correct or not.
 
#3 ·
Welcome to the forum Don, you opened an old thread to pose your question so I am moving your post over to the Technical Questions and Information forum.

I do believe that when the Luger's were made the serial numbers started at 1 and ran through 9999. When they hit the 10000 mark they started back at "1" and added a cursive letter under the number. So they had already made something like 150,000 when they started on the "O" series.

I am sure someone witdh more knowledge will come along and be able to tell you if I am correct or not.
Thanks for the information!
 
#4 ·
My Luger does not have the duel date stamp. I only has 1916 stamped on it. Can this possibly mean that the pistol was not turned in according to the Treaty? How can I tell if my Luger was used by the military, police, or for civilian use? I cannot find any markings that would suggest how this pistol was used. I did find a tiny looking eagle on the mechanism behind the barrel (on top). The eagle is the only thing I found. One other question, my Luger does not have a Stock Lug, Did all 1916 Lugers have a stock lug? Could my Luger have had the stock lug ground off? Thank you.
 

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#7 ·
Thanks for the pictures. We have a few real Luger experts that hang around here, which I am not one of. I am sure they will be along to give you some information as their time permits. I have a book on Lugers that I am going to look at and compare with your pictures.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Hello and thanks for posting the photos of your luger. As has been explained, that little symbol is a letter and is part of the serial number, putting it in the "o" block for the year stamped on the chamber. Yes, the date of 1916 and the DWM script on the toggle means that your pistol was manufactured in 1916 by Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken. And yes, that fact that it has the single date means that it did not go through the official process of being turned in to the government at the end of the war. However, beyond that I am afraid there is not much that we can learn about the life and history of this pistol.

The official contract to provide luger pistols for the German government specified that certain marks or stamps were to be applied during manufacturing as part of the quality control, inspection and proofing process. After 1910 the government required the date to be stamped on the chamber. That little stamp on the toggle that you point to in one of your pictures was also required along with several other marks. Unfortunately, at some point in the life of your pistol all of the other marks were ground or polished off as part of the refinishing process. The refinishing process also changed the color of some of the parts. The trigger, take down lever, safety bar and ejector were originally a yellowish color referred to as "straw".

Because your pistol has been refinished, we don't know what other marks may have been removed. For example, after World War I, many pistols were exported from Germany and came to the U.S. with the word "Germany" stamped on them as required by US law at the time. In many cases, the lugers that were imported after World War I also had their barrels replaced and their calibers changed from 9mm to 7.65. If your luger is 7.65, it well may have been imported into the US in the period between the wars. In many ways Germany was a very hectic place after World War I and many lugers were not turned in as required. Instead, they were quietly put away until they were discovered by some GI during the next war and brought to the US after 1945. Many lugers from World War I that didn't come to the US as souvenirs after World War II, were rounded up and placed in warehouses along with countless other weapons until they were purchased by importers in the US in the years after the war. If you look at publications like "American Rifleman" throughout the 1950s and 1960s you will see advertisements for all sorts of lugers. Until the Gun Control Act of 1968, there was no requirement to mark imported firearms, so yours could have arrived in the US as part of these huge surplus purchases after World War II. Even if it came to the US after 1968 and was stamped with an importers mark, that mark could have been removed during the refinishing process along with all of the others. All of this means that you have a nice luger to enjoy and shot. Because it has been refinished it does not have a great deal of collector value and we simply can't tell you much about the details of its early life. Best of luck and thanks again for sharing with us.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hello again! Yes, generally speaking if the number on the frame and the barrel are the same, that is an indication that the barrel has not been replaced. However… for several years now there has been a small cottage industry in "boosting," "enhancing" or more pointedly simply faking the markings on higher priced lugers. I admit to having been taken in by at least one of these fakes. In the case of your luger, it's not clear why the person who refinished it left the serial number and the date but removed the other marks. It was very common in the 1950s and 1960s to have a firearm especially a luger refinished with that deep, dark, glossy finish that some folks associated with high-dollar firearms. That leads me to believe that your luger was refinished in the US some time during that era. However, that may not be the case. There is at least one other possible explanation. There were still a lot of GIs passing through Germany during that period and a lot of them wanted to come home with a souvenir such as a luger. I've even had GIs who were stationed in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s tell me that they could buy surplus lugers at their base PX. There were local gun shops that were more than happy to take a tired old luger and make it look bright and shiny again. In fact, some guys wanted them so shiny that they had their lugers chrome or nickel plated. This was done both in Europe and in the US. Ugh! In any event, in Europe the crucial part that is considered the core of the firearm and should have a serial number is the barrel while in the US the crucial part is the receiver. That may explain why the two serial numbers were left, but that is a real stretch and it doesn't explain why that other little number below the serial number was not removed. That little "8.83" number, if I'm reading it correctly in your pictures, is the bore diameter and was stamped there after assembly but before "power proof and shoot in" as outlined in point 26c of the official "Instructions on Marking the Pistol 08… 1910" as translated by Gortz and Bryans in their book German Small Arms Markings.

Now there are a couple of other points that may be of interest regarding your luger. First, it appears that it still has the stock attaching lug on the back of the grip frame. That is good. After WWII, a lot of folks were led to believe that any pistol which could be attached to a shoulder stock was illegal. Consequently, a lot of folks ground off the stock lugs from their lugers. We can't quite see all of it in your pictures, but it appears to be intact. Second, the magazine in your photos is a little dark but it appears to be for a much later, World War II era luger. If the base is black bakelite (plastic-like material) with a pin through the middle, it should be marked "fxo" along with a very small waffen eagle stamped on the metal near the base. This was the last style of magazine for German military lugers and in good, original condition is very desirable by itself. Third, if you would like to see what your luger would have looked like when it left the factory, go to the Rock Island Auction website and look at item number 812 in their upcoming December auction. This is a 1916 luger that has been professionally refinished and therefore looks pretty good. There are only a few photos, but one of them is of an original holster from the period.

Hope that I haven't bored you to death and you find some of this interesting. Thanks again for sharing.
 
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