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Dan Wesson barrel removal?

8K views 48 replies 8 participants last post by  LDBennett 
#1 ·
Well it happened again...can't get the barrel nut loose.

A couple years back I buggered up a barrel nut for a Dan Wesson 357 pistol. The tool provided was insufficient and the tool broke. I bought the better tool, replaced the barrel nut and all was well. Then I tried to take the perfect new barrel nmut off again yesterday and the new tool fit fine but no amount of force would unscrew the nut. The tool over rode the nut and messed up the nut. The tool is fine but the nut is now messed up.

So with a messed up nut slots how in the world am I going to be able to get the darn barrel nut loose? Does someone make a better nut that won't round the corners off when the tool slips? And finally why in the world is the nut on there so tight. I did not install it that tight. I have changed the barrel on my SuperMag many times and never had this problem.

Anyone got a trick to get it off? I could try a punch and hammer on what remains of the slot in the nut but I am afraid that will just damage the nut slots all that much more. Is there a trick like freeze the gun or ????

The gun is a blued DW 357 (small frame) from the 1990's and shot very little.

LDBennett
 
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#2 ·
hmm.. good luck.

I do hobby restorations on tractors.. in that circle, a prick punch or chissle is a great tool for starting a round nut spinning. havn't had a DW to play with so don't know how much room you have to work with.

If you need a penetrant, kroil is a superb one.

best of luck
 
#3 ·
I am no expert but I know we used heat to expand metal to get parts off cars. Maybe if you fired some round it would heat up the parts enough to get them off.
 
#6 ·
I can tell you that there is enough room to use a pin punch and hammer. My concern is my better tool could put tremendous force on the nut and it did not budge at all. My guess is the punch will just shear off metal at the edge of the slot until there is no edges left. It may be that the impact will do better than a constant force (??).

My hope was to find someone who does this all the time (a DW expert) who could give me a process (like cold or heat or ???). I tired Kroil over night with zero effect. I have no idea what is holding the barrel on with such force. It must have tightened from firing as I did not put it on that tight. I may (??) have even used NeverSeize but I don't remember as it was a couple of years ago.

The tool has rounded the edges of the slots in the nut and now tool simply overrides the slots.

I can't post pictures here but here is a verbal explanation. The barrel is a small round tube. The tube is threaded on both ends. A shroud slips over the barrel and is pined for clocking it. A threaded tube (internally) about 1/2 inch in length slips inside the shroud and over the barrel where it is screwed onto the barrel. The barrel nut bottom seats on a ledge inside the shroud. This barrel nut is a tube with walls about 1/16th inch thick. When fully seated it is inside the shroud and does not protrude. There are two slots machined in the muzzle end o0f the barrel nut for a tool that has tabs to engage those slots and a centering stub that fits into the bore to protect the bore and center the tool. there is minimal clearance between the barrel nut and the inside of the shroud and of course the barrel nut threads onto the barrel. The first tool broke the tabs off the last time I changed barrels and this better tool has stronger tabs. But the new nut appears to be a relatively softer material than the tool and easily distorts with force applied to the slots until the edges round off and the tool cams out of the nut.

The question again is: Is there a trick to getting a damaged barrel tube nut out of the barrel? Heat...cold....impact.... ?????? or ???

LDBennett
 
#7 ·
hmm.. tough situation.

I can only relate a mechanical similarity that is not gun related.

for instance. removing stuck studs. many times a hard pull with a breaker bar will shear a stuck stud off, but the hammering action of a impact gun will take them out. I have also used a chissle to back a nut off that would not come off with a pipe wrench.

neither of those are gun specific... so not an apples to apples deal.

sure hope a DW person comes along!
 
#8 ·
I was going to suggest heat but I jst went and watched a you-tube video that turns out was made by a member here. Anyway, I see your problem. The nut goes between the shroud and barrel but screws onto the barrel pushing on he shroud and keeping forward tension on the barrel. No way to get an external grip (without destroying the shroud), only those little slots that look like a tiny choke tube.
 
#9 ·
Yes, choke tube analogy fits. But in the DW case the the tube (barrel nut) threads on to the barrel with internal threads on the barrel nut. The removal is basically the same....tab on tool inserted into small slots on the tube (barrel nut), all flush with the end of the barrel and shroud. I sure could have designed a better approach with the barrel nut having a hat that went over the end to the shroud and barrel so you could get an external grip on the barrel nut. Maybe this barrel nut problem is one reason DW as a company did not survive. CZ bought them and are only now making some new version of this old design. They are accurate guns!

LDBennett
 
#10 ·
I found two posts with a browser search with two different methods for removing my nut:

1) Boiling water on the nut and barrel shroud. I really don't see this working (???). The explanation was not totally clear but he may have been putting the boiling water through the barrel to expand only the barrel so the tool can remove the nut?

2) Threaded rod through the barrel, double nutted both ends, unscrew the frame end of the barrel to release the shroud tension and remove the barrel and shroud together. Once barrel is out of frame the shroud slips off the barrel and nut cam be grasped on it outside surface to get it off the barrel. It may just hand unscrew with no shroud tension on it (??). I believe he used 5/16 nuts and threaded rod. This one looks promising but I would protect the bore with tape on the threaded rod. Hope it works.

I'll need a new barrel nut and I'll for sure use NeverSeize on the barrel nut this time.

LDBennett
 
#12 ·
I don't see how either could possibly work. 1) pouring hot water down the barrel would tend to make the barrel expand inside the barrel nut. We need to get the barrel nut to expand and the barrel contract. 2) there is a pin in the face of the frame that the shroud sits on to align it.
 
#14 ·
I can only relate 30 years experience from getting nuts off bolts in a different field. I'd wager your never seize is the issue. Our general rule of thumb is never use never seize or you'll always be seized. Threads torqued to a spec rarely want never seize. Threads exposed to heat don't like it either. The best way to remove it is to use an oxy/acetylene torch (MAP gas may be hot enough) to heat the nut. Again, not a gunsmith so I'm not sure what else could be damaged, but red-hot (or nearly so) may be required. Since you suspect always seize (what we call it) try "somewhat" hot first. You might just be able to melt the stuff and free the nut. Hopefully the never seize didn't gall the threads.
 
#15 ·
Can't get to the nut to heat it, it's between the shroud and barrel.

LD,

I was just rethinking your two ideas. Number 2 might work if you can get enough pressure on the ends of the barrel to be able to use the doubled nuts to back the barrel out enough to take the tension off the barrel nut.
 
#16 ·
So it's like a spanner nut? If the nut is inside the barrel/shroud, then heat the barrel/shroud. Heating a nut to remove it isn't so much about expanding the nut, it's more about creating a sharp temp difference or dramatically lowering the coefficient of friction between the two. In this case, the heat may simply need to melt the always-seize.
 
#17 ·
howlnmad:

Yes, that's the idea, exactly! The guy that provided the tip says that you can actually pull the barrel, the threaded rod, and the nuts through the frame as the nuts are just small enough to go through. Once the barrel and shroud are off the gun then loosening the threaded rod will allow the barrel and barrel nut to come out of the shroud. Once the tension is off the barrel nut it may thread off by hand or at least the barrel nut is fully exposed for a surface to grab onto or even to cut it off but I really don't expect either of those last two.

The whole purpose of this exercise was to adjust the clearance between the barrel breech face and the cylinder as I had set it up wrong and the barrel was slightly dragging on the cylinder as it rotated. I was able to use some of my Brownells tooling to cut the barrel breech face back to get close to the right cylinder to barrel clearance so the gun is usable but my son (this is his gun) also has an scoped 8 inch barrel for the gun and leaving it this way would preclude ever using that long barrel. I'll not try anything until I receiver the new Dan Wesson barrel nuts I just ordered which have four slot instead of just two and may be made of better material (??).

By the way I too think the first way probably will not work. There is not much expansion of steel at 212 degrees F. I sure don't want to use a torch to heat up the barrel, either.

LDBennett
 
#18 ·
Well, now you all have me worried. I have a DW mod 15
that hasn't been used for a number of years.
I'll not get it out now, but I guess I will soon,
just to see if I can get it apart.
Now, where is my tool located?
I hope I can find it.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Go to this site and check out a make up tool to turn the barrel out,
to loosen the tension of the barrel nut. Looks like you could actually
remove the barrel without removing the nut.
Might work if your careful.

I would consider using a correct size of copper or brass washer against the
barrel on each end to protect the barrel faces from any damage.
Sounds good, I guess I'll keep this for my own info.

http://www.danwessonforum.com/faqs/how-do-i-removing-a-stuck-barrel/
 
#20 ·
That link is the one I found earlier in this thread and is the way I intend to get the barrel off the gun. I have already made up aluminum washers to protect the ends of the barrel. I have yet to pick up the threaded rod and nuts from the local hardware store. I have time as the new barrel nut is current in route to me and will not be here for about a week or so. The old barrel nut is so messed up where the tool tabs fit that it can not be reused. This time I bought the DW barrel nuts rather than the clone version and I will use some sort of thread lubricant, either moly or NerverSeize.

LDBennett
 
#21 ·
LD

I no longer have my DW pistol pack but I had two different kinds of barrel nut wrenches with mine. One was the standard one that was made of (red) plastic and had the different hex wrenches attached. That one broke after a few uses and was worthless (except for the hex wrenches). The other one looked like the picture below.
Fishing sinker


I was wondering which one you are using? The one pictured is so much better than the original one. If you have not tried one like that, you might give it a thought.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I have lost the original T handle DW wrench (It broke as i remember it) and bought a better tool from EWK Arms. It is a better made T handle wrench. The problem is not the tool but the barrel nut I also, I believe, purchased from EWK. The barrel nut is so tight and stuck that the tool over road the slots in the barrel nut and there is no shoulder left on them for the tool to grab. I put some pretty heavy duty force on that nut before it got overridden. The method shown in the post from TR3 is the way I'll use once I get the new DW made barrel nuts in hand.

LDBennett
 
#24 ·
The old Mod 14 is the one that had the exposed barrel nut that may have alleviated
this problem, but, is also possible to use plier force and again seize the nut to the barrel
by being to heavy handed.The threaded rod and dual nut looks to me to be the best solution and likely the most likely to succeed. Just need to take it slow and carefully. At least I think
you will save the barrel and be back to square one. Good Luck.
At least, even if you can't take the barrel out with the nuts on the threaded rod it will
be loose and take the nuts off and turn the barrel out by hand.
 
#26 · (Edited)
That's definitely not what I was hoping to hear from you. That idea seemed like a good one. There has got to be a logical way to remove that barrel without damaging it.

Maybe using a brass cone in each end of the barrel. Something that the rifling would dig into but wouldn't be damaged by? Then you would still need a way to keep the nuts from spinning on the brass.
 
#27 ·
howlnmad:

I like your idea and am formulating an approach. Make two cones, one for each end of the barrel. Drill and thread each one. Back them up with lock nuts on the threaded rod. Maybe even pin the breech one to the threaded rod. I have a lathe so this is actually relatively easy to do. I'll soak the nut in KROIL for days.

But here is the good news: CZ does have some barrel/shrouds for sale NEW and they have one in 4 inches. It is a heavy shroud but beggars can't be choosers.

Get this, I sat for a hour on EBAY last night waiting for a used one with slight dent on the shroud. I had the scheme to get it.:Jump in the last 4 seconds with a 10% higher bid (someone really wanted it as they auto bided it over my bid earlier in the day). The plan was foiled because I NEVER use EBAY and did not understand that making a bid is a two part operation: click on new bid then confirm. I missed it because the Confirm screen came up after the closing time. I was going to bid $225 + $6 for shipping. So I lost it.

I was searching again this morning and migrated back to the CZ-USA site and found they did sell barrels and shrouds! The web page is a bit convoluted and I got lost in it yesterday. So while finding it I found a 15% off discount code. The bottom line is I got a NEW barrel with free shipping for $218. I guess I was not suppose to win that EBAY auction last night.

I'll still try to remove the barrel but if all else fails I'll cut it off since I'll have the replacement barrel we want (4 incher).

So far, today is a much better day than yesterday!

Thanks for the help,
LDBennett
 
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