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Crimping 223 without cannelure - seeking advice

7K views 17 replies 8 participants last post by  accident 
#1 ·
I've loaded lots of 223 for my AR using cannelured 55 gn FMJ BT. I've applied a light roll crimp with my Hornady dies.

Now I'm gearing up for 60 gn V-max bullets which do not have cannelures. So I'm looking for some advice on how much crimp and what die to produce that crimp. All of these rounds will be shot in my M&P 1:9 AR15.

Should I apply a very light roll crimp with my current die? Should I use a Lee FCD? Or something else?

Thanks guys
 
#5 ·
I loaded up a bunch for my son's AR and used a mixed group of roll for cannelures and tapered for the non. I saw a you tube by neutered10mm Jump to 20 minutes thru 23 minutes. I loaded a few but at the range, fire one, measure all in the mag. Shoot another, measure all, until you are satisfied. When I set my taper crimp, I started at 1/2, pulled the bullet, went a bit more, pulled the bullet and so on until I got to where the bullet was deformed, then backed off. Similar to the GMC concept. They build a great vehicle, then every year they take a part off. Next year another part an so on until it runs poor or they get sued. Then the put that last part they took off and add it back to production and retest on the public.
 
#6 ·

That's a great video, I have not seen that one. Thanks for posting. I like his work flow. Interesting that he does not apply a crimp on his non cannelure bullets. I like your approach for setting the crimp and testing for setback at the range
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#7 ·
A lot of people don't crimp unless there's a cannelure. I have my FCD set so it just "kisses'' the brass a bit, if I can't push the bullet back in the case by pushing it against the bench I call it good. At some point I'll try running some without crimp to see what it changes
 
#8 · (Edited)
Thanks all for your comments.

I ran down to Sportsman today and picked up a Lee FCD. I am very pleased with this die. I like the design and the fact that you can look into it and see the crimp being applied. In fact I'm so impressed I think I'll pick one up for my 270 win. I got the crimp lightly set but messed up two bullets getting it dialed in.

I had tried the Lee pistol FCD dies a while back and was not impressed, in fact I pulled them out and they are in a junk box.

I spent the day in the garage working up some test loads for my AR using H335 and CFE223 and 60 gn V-Max bullets. I finally got to use my OAL gauge and bullet comparator tools. I actually had to shorten my OAL a bit more than I had wanted so the bullets would cycle in my mags. Anyway off to the range Monday AM to shoot my test loads.
 
#9 ·
Thanks all for your comments.

I ran down to Sportsman today and picked up a Lee FCD. I am very pleased with this die. I like the design and that fact that you can look into it and see the crimp being applied. In fact I'm so impressed I think I'll pick one up for my 270 win. I got the crimp lightly set but messed up two bullets getting it dialed in.

I had tried the Lee pistol FCD dies a while back and was not impressed, in fact I pulled them out and they are in a junk box.

I spent the day in the garage working up some test loads for my AR using H335 and CFE223 and 60 gn V-Max bullets. I finally got to use my OAL gauge and bullet comparator tools. I actually had to shorten my OAL a bit more than I had wanted so the bullets would cycle in my mags. Anyway off to the range Monday AM to shoot my test loads.
I had some brass that was a tad shy of minimum and the fcd barely touched it. I think leaving them a bit short of the max is better as that gives you a bit more contact with the fcd and not pinching the end edge towards the bullet. But I am new at that but it worked for me.
 
#15 ·
Thumbs up for the LEE Rifle FCD even though I am a LEE hater. The Rifle FCD is a collet that closes horizontally onto the case to make a crimp. It is somewhat oblivious to variation in case length from case to case but all must be within the limits posted in any reloading manual for case length after sizing.

The LEE Pistol version, even though it has the same "FCD" name, is not the same animal at all. It is the appropriate roll or taper crimp for the caliber with a sizing die in the base to straighten out a collapsed case from over crimping. If the pistol FCD die were setup correctly in the beginning the sizing die in the base of the die is superfluous.

Should you crimp at all? Any gun that stores ammo in a magazine and that ammo has to ride the recoil of the gun multiple times, needs to be crimped with the appropriate crimp for that cartridge. That includes semi-autos, pumps, lever guns, and even bolt guns with large recoil. That means All handguns too. For rifles if you use conventional seating/crimp dies you risk collapsing the shoulder of the case if not set up perfectly. The LEE FCD eliminates that possibility. But there is a warning about the LEE FCD.

Lee has a problem with all their products in not using the appropriate materials for a long lasting tool life. In the FCD they apparently have been using the same steel for the working parts of the collet. When they rub against each other and they are the same material, they gall on the working surfaces. Watch your LEE FCD for sign of galling. Remove the galling with stones or the die will get sticky in operation. The LEE FCD for rifle cartridge is such a good idea and when it works it works so well that I swallow my LEE hater pride and use it. I never use the pistol version anymore or any other LEE reloading tools I purchased decades ago.

LDBennett
 
#16 ·
Lee has a problem with all their products in not using the appropriate materials for a long lasting tool life. In the FCD they apparently have been using the same steel for the working parts of the collet. When they rub against each other and they are the same material, they gall on the working surfaces. Watch your LEE FCD for sign of galling. Remove the galling with stones or the die will get sticky in operation. The LEE FCD for rifle cartridge is such a good idea and when it works it works so well that I swallow my LEE hater pride and use it. I never use the pistol version anymore or any other LEE reloading tools I purchased decades ago.
LDBennett
Thanks for tip on galling. As I was dialing this in I did recall your many posts praising the Lee "rifle" FCD die and now I see what you mean. Honestly I was so torqued by the two Lee pistol FCD dies I bought earlier that I was skeptical of any other Lee products but I took yours and others' advice on the rifle die. I did replace the cheesy aluminum nut and O ring with a steel one which has a set screw.
 
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