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.380 Not Good Defense Caliber

8K views 70 replies 30 participants last post by  carver 
#1 ·
So, I was in a discussion with a fellow in my community who said that the .380 is not big enough a caliber for self defense. My thinking is that a larger caliber is probably better, but with today's new self defense ammunition the .380 is a caliber that would be good for defense.
 
#41 ·
Next time the fella tells you how worthless the .380 is tell him to stand about 8 ft. away and let you shoot him with it. Then he can tell you exactly how poor the 380 is.

I bought a little CZ-50 in 32 ACP and a fella in the gun store at the time told me "all you're gonna do with that is pi$$ off someone". I offered to let him see how pi$$ed off he got if shot with it. He declined. Maybe the little guns ain't as bad as they're made out to be. I carry a 380 a lot with FMJ's and on occasion the 32. Beats nothing. Almost 40 years ago I was a LEO in a town that didn't have a lot of crime. The 3 years I was there we had one armed robbery/homicide...and that was the first in a lot of years. Anyway, the victim was killed with a 32 S&W Long, with one shot in the abdomen. I agree bigger is better when it comes to handguns and do prefer the 44's and 45's but sometimes, sometimes often, the little guns fit the circumstances better.
 
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#46 ·
The object is with any caliber or bullet is to stop the aggressor before he/she has time to harm you or anyone. Get them out of the fight before they can shoot or shoot again. I am sure that most shots to the heart will stop most most attackers but can they return fire before they bleed out. I sometimes carry a .380 when I can't carry anything else but most of the time my .380 is a backup. I like to carry two, don't much trust having one gun on me. I know men and deer are vastly different but I have shot deer through the heart and seen them run a long way.
 
#48 ·
if you want u stand stops, hit the brain. I've shot a hog thru the side, heart and lungs exploded and it still kicked 5-10 seconds, if I hadn't of taken out his left shoulder, I'd no doubt had to retrieve a hog from 20-30 feet into the thicket, ly Gs hanging out his side.
 
#49 ·
W
A .355 inch hole in a human heart is plenty. A hole that is 28% larger isn't really a big difference.

I also found this on another board, but I don't have the book it references to confirm:
"Dr. Vincent DiMiao, in his book Gunshot Wounds, documents a case where a man was shot in the heart at a range of 3-4 ft with a 12ga shotgun firing #7.5 birdshot. The guy's heart was shredded, but he turned and ran 65 feet before collapsing."

If an ounce of shot doesn't make a difference, I doubt that the 1/10th of an inch difference between the two pistol rounds would either. This was a perfect shot, and the guy was killed very quickly. It simply shows that humans can still be dangerous even when mortally wounded.
There are only two ways to kill a mammal with a "one shot stop", a hit to the central nervous system, and that usually takes a large caliber bullet. Or a rapid loss of blood pressure, again usually caused by a large caliber bullet. I've never heard that a small caliber bullet works just as well as a large caliber bullet at making fast one shot stops. This guy got off 6 shots, and hit nothing, the off duty cop got off one well placed shot, and it took several minutes to incapacitate the BG. The officers one shot was the first one fired, and even though it was a good hit, it almost cost him his life. Do you really believe that it would have made no difference as to what caliber the BG was shot with?
 
#50 ·
W

There are only two ways to kill a mammal with a "one shot stop", a hit to the central nervous system, and that usually takes a large caliber bullet. Or a rapid loss of blood pressure, again usually caused by a large caliber bullet. I've never heard that a small caliber bullet works just as well as a large caliber bullet at making fast one shot stops. This guy got off 6 shots, and hit nothing, the off duty cop got off one well placed shot, and it took several minutes to incapacitate the BG. The officers one shot was the first one fired, and even though it was a good hit, it almost cost him his life. Do you really believe that it would have made no difference as to what caliber the BG was shot with?
On this particular instance of a bullet hitting the heart, I don't think a more powerful pistol round would have ended things any quicker.

If the bullet missed both the heart and the CNS, a bigger caliber would have helped.

But once you shut down the heart but not the brain, it doesn't matter how the heart was shut down. It still takes a few seconds for the person to die, and that person can still be dangerous.
 
#53 ·
After two decades of carrying compact .357s and then another decade plus carrying compact 40s, about a half a decade ago I changed to a sub-compact .380 and there's a good chance I won't be going back.
I do not feel defenseless, I do practice, I do keep the weapon in tip-top shape, it has proved to be reliable and I do not pull nor plan on pulling the trigger just once. True, it's not a "big bore" or "hi-power" round but, I guaranty it will certainly suck for the BG who decides that he just has to find out how bad it feels to be shot with it.
 
#54 ·
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#55 ·
Make that in a two shot derringer!:D
 
#56 ·
i carried at work 6 days a week for 12 years...

a few points of debate / interest to be considered...

if its a "house" gun (aka not a daily concealed carry piece) than size and weight are not factors...

my only true concerns on a "house" gun is killing a neighbor (over penetration) especially if you live in an apartment or condo - have close neighbors...

recoil and muzzle lift can be a concern with a "house" gun as well - how fast can the gun be brought back to bear on the target after firing the first round...

the longest distance in most residences (were a "house" gun - non carry piece) is the hallway or stairwell (lets call it 7 1/2 yds usually with a lateral confinement)...

you do not need to be an expert marksman or have a "heavy" caliber firearm under these conditions (reliability of function and comfort level - experience of shooter with weapon are the most important factors)...

high capacity is NOT an issue 99.9% of the time.

if 5 rounds in a revolver don't get it done your in serious trouble (its not likely that you will confront multiple aggressors - the nature of hallways and stairways also severely constricts - restricts how man opponents can advance towards you)...

having high capacity - extra mags - speed loaders - ammo belts - gun belts - ammo bearers may be great piece of mind (be prepared says the scout motto) but rarely if ever effect the outcome of 99.9% of self defense encounters)...

you do not need tactical air support and font need to lay down grazing fire.

spray and pray is not the best practice.

onto concealed carry pieces...

food for thought you have to actually carry the gun during your daily routine...

you have to get in and out of your vehicle - sit down in a restaurant - navigate crowded business's...

how fast can you access your gun - how fast does it "clear leather" and how fast can it be brought into play...

is it comfortable in its daily use (ie were you wear it) while you conduct your normal daily activities...

do your pants stay up? do you have to disarm to get in and out of your ride or a diner booth - what kind of attention does this attract???

are you really likely to need a .50 action express desert eagle and 3 spare mags - do you need 100 rounds of extra ammo capacity (were not in fallujah or a zombie apocalypse)

in my humble opinion a smaller framed snub-nose revolver (bbl length under 3") works best...

more powerful rounds in higher capacity guns sound great - but there are practical and logistical downsides in the real world.

i finally settled on a Brazilian air force INA revolver in .32 s&w long with custom self defense hand-loads...

easily concealable - easy to carry concealed - not heavy or cumbersome - easy and quick to draw under almost any scenario - from any position (ie sitting in a diner booth or car seat) and not readily visually apparent or noticeable to the general public.

simple - reliable - idiot proof - no safety to disengage - not rocket science.

would a .32 h&r mag or .327 mag or a .38 special give better terminal short range performance - yes.

but think about the little discussed practical aspects that have some nominal bearing and impact under real world conditions.

as a said - food for thought - grist for the debate mill.

best regards, Mike.
 
#60 ·
It may not be the "optimum choice", but to be able to carry comfortably & have confidence is the important factor in my opinion (as little value it has). I now carry an LC9 w/ laser. I can conceal it & be comfortable carry/shooting. Used to carry a FNP9. I've had to reach for it 2 times in my life, but did not need to go any further.
My wife carries a LCR in 22mag because of physical limitations. She can not rack a slide due to elbow issues. Having something that you're comfortable with & can rely on is No. 1
We've discussed that any situation we can walk away from safely is a Win-Win.
We don't want to get in a shoot out, just have everyone settle back & leave.
If needing to draw a firearm in general may stop it from escalating so be it.
.380 will work, not anyone's first choice, but much better than a stick!!!!!
 
#61 ·
So you pull your gun, and the BG walks away. He then calls the police, and you find yourself arrested for brandishing! Three days later the same BG breaks into your best friends home, and ends up shooting him dead in a home invasion.

Bottom line for me is that if I pull a gun I am going to shoot because either, my life is on the line, or someone else's life is on the line. I have in the past used a gun to dissuade the BG to give it up on more than one occasion. One of those cases ended up with a dead woman. Never again.
 
#62 ·
Hmmm.. not sure if that you read correctly. PLEASE READ AGAIN.
"I had to reach for my gun", no where do I say I pulled my gun out.
Where does it say "I pulled my gun out"

And this exactly is how misinformation begins

You must have a had a ball with the Trayvon Martin case.
 
#63 ·
"If needing to draw a firearm in general may stop it from escalating so be it.
.380 will work, not anyone's first choice, but much better than a stick!!!!!"
 
#64 ·
WOW......
"I've had to reach for it 2 times in my life, but did not need to go any further"

"We've discussed...."

"If needing to draw a firearm in general may stop it from escalating so be it.
.380 will work, not anyone's first choice, but much better than a stick!!!!!"

It's called speculation...we go over different scenario's in case something does happen

Never said I had to draw my firearm.
 
#65 ·
WOW......
"I've had to reach for it 2 times in my life, but did not need to go any further"
"We've discussed...."
"If needing to draw a firearm in general may stop it from escalating so be it.
.380 will work, not anyone's first choice, but much better than a stick!!!!!"

It's called speculation...we go over different scenario's in case something does happen

Never said I had to draw my firearm.
If you do draw it, shoot it!
 
#67 ·
#70 · (Edited)
Yes. But, we later refused to press charges. He was drunk & under the influence of narcotics and couldn't even remember it the next day.

BTW- It took the LEOs 45min to respond after the 911 call. BG's aren't dumb. Most know how much time they may have before LE can respond.​

This is just one scenario where drawing & preparing yourself to shoot is better than actually shooting. But, there are a lot of others. It's just a bad mindset that could lead you into a lot of trouble to say if you pull you will always shoot.

In real life SD doesn't necessarily work like that & legally give you that choice. You need to have full control because things change really fast from bad to worse; back to bad & then good again. All of this can happen in nanoseconds. The force continuum needs to be more understood. It's not always black & white.

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