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SHTF ammo ponder

6K views 61 replies 24 participants last post by  soundguy 
#1 ·
Many times, on many boards, there will be a thread (or twenty - depending on how far back you go in the archives) about HOW MUCH AMMO TO STORE FOR THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.

That's not the purpose of this post. Don't really care how much.

One guy's list, that I was reading t'other day, had shotshells. First, it was for 12 gauge (because more different types of shells are made for 12 than for any other type, and anything you can do with a 20 or 410 you can do with a 12) but he said to stock X amount of buckshot and the same X amount of slugs, and a whole bunch more birdshot - like maybe 3 or 4X amount.

It just got me to thinking. Why in the hell would anyone want birdshot in an end-of-the-world situation?

You have two types of hunting. You have "sport hunting", which is what we do now. "Fair chase", and "unsportsman-like", and things like that. Then you have "I need to kill that animal". That would be "damn I'm hungry", or maybe "keep the ***** out of the corn".

Now, in "sport hunting", I will hide in the cornfield, until the flock of doves comes in, and then rise up and shoot them on the wing. Doves are small and fast, and can maneuver quickly. GOOD sport. I know people that count it a GOOD DAY if they average one dove per box of shells.

But in "I need to kill that animal" because "damn I'm hungry", I'll shoot that same dove off a tree branch, with a 22 rifle.

As an actual "game getting device", a shotgun is terribly inefficient. They are quiet heavy, the ammunition is extremely bulky, and the "component per ounce of meat" ratio is awful. Even if you got one with every shot, you know how much edible meat is on your average dove or quail? A 12-gauge shell takes, maybe, 25 grains of powder and an ounce of lead. A 22 take, maybe, 1.5 grains of powder and 1/11 of an ounce of lead.

I know that, during the Depression, my uncles helped feed my mother's family with an Iver Johnson Champion 410 shotgun. I'm pretty sure they were not shooting those pheasants on the wing, though. Not enough gun for a rising cock pheasant, at fifty feet. Plenty for a sitting one, at twenty feet, though.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
It does seem like the only use for bird shot would be hunting. But I have an issue with hunting in a SHTF situation unless it also involves killing off about 90% of the human population. Within weeks every bird, cat, and squirrel in the populated areas will have been killed by 22LR and pellet guns. This means your bird shot is useless unless you can relocate to an area flush with game birds that no one else knows about or will find. That just isn't going to happen unless they're all dead. Even then, I agree that 22LR is the way to go.
 
#3 ·
Methinks that "one guy" that wants all the bird shot is probably over thinking it.
I've always said what both posters here have already said....in the theoretical SHTF situation .22lr is probably your most important gun.
Now, it's easy for us to sit here and contemplate these things, things that in all likelihood wouldn't be anything close to what actually happens.
When I try and think about it that way, what's probably most useful is whatever you can use to stop a man from taking that game that you shot with that .22lr.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Doves are not the only birds that can be eaten! In a SHTF situation, the first thing will be to stay alive, and protect what you have, no matter how little, or how much. At some point in time after the SHTF situation got started, it will settle down to a manageable place. It might be months, it might be years. If you, and your family, are still alive, you can now go about your life as needs be. Hunting, fishing, planting, harvesting, and you may find yourself in a barter situation. No official money, barter only. All that ammo you stock piled will now come in handy. And you just might find a use for all that bird shot you put back. Most birds are good to eat. I haven't tried crow, or buzzard, and hopefully will never have to. Probably all birds could be eaten in a survival situation, but some just taste nasty! Coots, and starlings come to mind. Black birds are good to eat, I've eat a bunch of them down thru the years. They like to gather in large flocks, and that makes killing a lot of them with one shot fairly common. I've killed over 100 with two shots from a 12 gauge shotgun on one occasion, and dozens with one shot a bunch of times. Do you know what a cut shell is? Low powered slugs! Why couldn't you open the case, remove the tiny bird shot, and replace it with some lead balls of what ever caliber you can create, or find?
 
#5 · (Edited)
First of all , crow is tastes terrible and is extremely greasy.
I really don't think most people have given the survival situation much REAL thought.
The idea of going out and shooting something big or even birds is what people want to believe. The reality of it is that most people will end up eating things they would never have done in the civilized world. Things like rats. Yes rats. And other rodents. It has happened many times in history in times of famine. Something like bird shot would work great for this . As an example, during WW2 ,in the siege of Moscow or was it Stalingrad, (you know what I mean) shooting rats in the sewers kept many a person alive.
Normaly during a siege, famine , or disaster, the first thing people will go for is the largest animals then the smaller and smaller ones until things stabilize. Many areas in Europe had so few cats left, that they had to import them from other areas after WW2.

Here kitty ,kitty. :)
 
#6 ·
I'll be relying on live traps, and snares for those small animals. They don't advertise your position! That won't stop me from stocking up on shot shells though. They will come in handy when things calm down! If I don't make to that point, there are my children to think of.
 
#7 ·
I like shot for squirrel and some birds. I'll be saving rifle ammo for longer shot stuff. Besides, hitting a running squirrel with a 22 is a hair difficult, not so with a shotty.

Slugs is where I might differ... I'd rather use a rifle than a shotgun , to shoot single projectiles. My rifles are more accurate at sending large single projectiles down range, and there isn't anything walking around that a 12g slug can take down that a rifle can't... so that's where I'd save weight., lose the slugs...
 
#34 ·
Hmm, much as I love steak and bacon, we don't have much livestock in my area. But all that long pig walking about should be easy pickin's, and most of them are unarmed. I don't think the taboo applies to Democrats, though they'll likely make you gassy for a bit...
 
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#14 ·
Most game will be gone within 3 months,then down to the secondary game-possums,*****,armadillos,etc.To realistically feed yourself/family-250rds,I'd say.To protect yourself from predators(2+4)as much as you want to have-I'd be happy with 10k of each caliber owned but others may not.If you live in/near a major city of obamazombies,good luck,hope the wife can load mags quick.......Or we'll all sing Kumbia and live peacefully ever after.
 
#16 ·
My wife and I sat down a few weeks ago and made a list of ammo we had on hand for every gun we own. We determined that some calibers were not going to be used much so we set those around 250 rds each (they were the odd ball calibers like 45LC, 25ACP). For the large hunting rifle calibers, we have 6, we set 400 rds each, for the ARs we set 4000 rds, we could still hunt with them, and 4000 rds of 22LR. The shotguns (all 12ga) have 100 rds of buck, 100 slugs, and 200 rds of everything from Turkey to #8 shot. The carry handguns we have 500 rds each (but that is probably too much). We are all set except for the 22LR, we are only half way there.

Maybe it is not enough, maybe it is too much, it is a total guessing game as to what impact any SHTF scenario will have on us personally, and what we will be able to do if/when it goes down. We have a semi-remote piece of property, and I hunt it, but I don't think there is enough game large and small to be able to use up all that hunting ammo, because the surrounding area is hunted by others as well.

In the end I am not depending on any of that for long term survival anyway, just long enough, whatever that might be, is still unknown, but really fun to ponder.
 
#17 ·
I'm guessing that you are one of us that laughs when the media shows an "arsenal" of a few guns and boxes of ammo. It does seem like in a SHTF situation that pistol ammo is secondary and not likely to get used a lot as rifles would become the primary defensive weapon.
 
#18 ·
Any ammo would be useful. The real question is how much. I would say figure out an amount you think would be enough and then multiply times 10 if you're lucky enough to survive the first few years.
 
#20 ·
It really depends on whether you are going to stay put, or BUG out. If you have 400 lbs. of guns, and ammo, and you are going to BUG out, how will you get it to your BUG out area? What about water, food, clothing, medical, and all the other things you will need to have at your BUG out location. Is there shelter there? A wood burning stove, water on site? A lot to consider, and plan for. Not to mention how you intend to get there!
 
#24 ·
Why do you think those hulls are scattered all over the forest?
 
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