The Firearms Forum banner

SHTF ammo ponder

6K views 61 replies 24 participants last post by  soundguy 
#1 ·
Many times, on many boards, there will be a thread (or twenty - depending on how far back you go in the archives) about HOW MUCH AMMO TO STORE FOR THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.

That's not the purpose of this post. Don't really care how much.

One guy's list, that I was reading t'other day, had shotshells. First, it was for 12 gauge (because more different types of shells are made for 12 than for any other type, and anything you can do with a 20 or 410 you can do with a 12) but he said to stock X amount of buckshot and the same X amount of slugs, and a whole bunch more birdshot - like maybe 3 or 4X amount.

It just got me to thinking. Why in the hell would anyone want birdshot in an end-of-the-world situation?

You have two types of hunting. You have "sport hunting", which is what we do now. "Fair chase", and "unsportsman-like", and things like that. Then you have "I need to kill that animal". That would be "damn I'm hungry", or maybe "keep the ***** out of the corn".

Now, in "sport hunting", I will hide in the cornfield, until the flock of doves comes in, and then rise up and shoot them on the wing. Doves are small and fast, and can maneuver quickly. GOOD sport. I know people that count it a GOOD DAY if they average one dove per box of shells.

But in "I need to kill that animal" because "damn I'm hungry", I'll shoot that same dove off a tree branch, with a 22 rifle.

As an actual "game getting device", a shotgun is terribly inefficient. They are quiet heavy, the ammunition is extremely bulky, and the "component per ounce of meat" ratio is awful. Even if you got one with every shot, you know how much edible meat is on your average dove or quail? A 12-gauge shell takes, maybe, 25 grains of powder and an ounce of lead. A 22 take, maybe, 1.5 grains of powder and 1/11 of an ounce of lead.

I know that, during the Depression, my uncles helped feed my mother's family with an Iver Johnson Champion 410 shotgun. I'm pretty sure they were not shooting those pheasants on the wing, though. Not enough gun for a rising cock pheasant, at fifty feet. Plenty for a sitting one, at twenty feet, though.
 
See less See more
#30 ·
Just imagine if there was a situation like we are speaking of, how many wild or packs of dogs will be loose and running around for people to kill and eat. Folks just will not be able to feed and care for them. I have a little better menu planned than dog but would do it in a heartbeat, if need be.
 
#36 ·
You get hungry enough, and you'll be out in the yard fiddling for worms!

For those of you who never fiddled for worms:
 
#38 ·
Well, IMO if you have a shotgun, not going the route of a nomad and decide not to have a few boxes of birdshot on hand, you're short changing yourself.

Aside: I just happen to know of some (little known) nearby caves inhabited by tens of thousands of bats that could be taken if it came down to it or starve. For bat cave harvesting, birdshot and safety glasses would be my choice.
 
#40 ·
Well, IMO if you have a shotgun, not going the route of a nomad and decide not to have a few boxes of birdshot on hand, you're short changing yourself.

Aside: I just happen to know of some (little known) nearby caves inhabited by tens of thousands of bats that could be taken if it came down to it or starve. For bat cave harvesting, birdshot and safety glasses would be my choice.
Works on all them flying rats too! (pigeons)
 
#41 ·
Have you ever shot anything big with birdshot?

I used to think that birdshot was a good choice for the same reason, but then I ran into a coyote while I had a 12ga with 7.5 shot. That 'yote took the hit from a full choke at less than 10 yards, and she was still ready to fight. It took a second hit to stop her and a third (from really close) to put her out of her misery.

I won't count on birdshot for self defense ever again.
 
#44 ·
CJ: "I won't count on birdshot for self defense ever again."

It might depend on the bird and the shot.

I haven't in years but, I used to hunt geese with #2 shot and 3" 12ga mag shells. I sure as heck would NOT want to be on the receiving end of charge of that at ten yards!
 
#46 ·
I don't own a shot gun so my "end of the world" stash wouldn't have birdshot.

If I was hunting small to medium game for survival I'd use a .22, .22s are easy to pack, easy to carry a lot of ammo for and if you place your shot accurately they quite capable of taking deer sized game and won't destroy the rodent sized critters.
 
#48 ·
Not slamming you Grizz, but it would take a whole lot of .22 bullets to put any meat at all on your plate, unless you are a great shot! I've hunted squirrels, and other small game, all my life. If I have to put meat on the table, I'll go with the shot gun. If I'm out there shooting small game just to supplement my diet, then the .22 would be a fun choice, and it wouldn't matter if I had to shot 15 shots just to get one squirrel!
 
#50 ·
I've killed (and eaten) a squirrel with a pellet gun. The only issue there is getting close enough for an accurate shot with enough power left to do the job. A 22LR is even better and would be my first choice if my life depended on it. Clearly we will all stock pile what works well for us, and for me this has been very educational as I had no idea that a shotgun with bird shot was an effective means of small game hunting.
 
#51 · (Edited)
Depends on what the game is as to what size shot to choose. Bird shot obviously works well on small birds, but it's not good on ducks, and geese! The most commonly used shot sizes for waterfowl include (from smallest to largest) No. 4, 3, 2, 1, BB, BBB, and T. the smaller shot sizes are recommended for ducks, while the larger ones are used for geese. I like #4 shot for squirrels, but I have also shot, and killed, ducks with #9 (up close). If #7 1/2 shot is good for small birds, and #4 shot is best for squirrels, and ducks, what do you think the best sized shot would be for something that weighs close to, or more than, 200 lbs.?
 

Attachments

#53 ·
I know a few deer poachers that would disagree with you Carver, hell, I'm related to a few of them.

It only takes one well placed shot with a .22 to take down a deer and it's quiet, that's why they like using them.

I'm a decent shot with a .22, when I was growing up I had an old model 33 Remington bolt action single shot and all my friends had semi autos, they used the pray and spray method, I had to learn to make every shot count because I only had one chance at it and squirrels are mighty tasty. ;)

Every one has their own idea of what would work for them and for some a shotgun is the right weapon, for others it might be something else, even if I needed 15 rounds of .22 ammo to get a deer or a squirrel they would take up less room and weigh less than one shotgun shell and you wouldn't hear me shooting it from the next county.
 
#54 ·
.

It only takes one well placed shot with a .22 to take down a deer and it's quiet, that's why they like using them.

.
just like real estate

location, location, location.

My stepdad used to hunt deer on the way to (skipping) school with a single shot 22LONG. Mind you florida deer can be found at 125# etc... but he and his buddies took plenty of deer while missing high school, and did it with those anemic rimfires.. but then.. they were doing excelent placements AND at that age, 3-4 boys tracking a blood trail for 2 hours in a 10 acre back lot was much more fun than schoolbooks.. :) Besdides, like my stepdad used to tell me, school was easier back then. History was only a phamphlet, not a book. :)
 
#55 ·
I've heard it said that more deer have been taken with .22 long than any other cartridge except for maybe the 30-30 Winchester.

And I've helped eat one or two of them back when my cousins and I were still young enough to be out skipping school........ some of them squirrels were big ones.

;)
 
#56 ·
When I lived in the PSMaine,I knew many "jackers"that used .22 for deer.Maine only allows 1 deer per person.People were dirt poor(they hate any kind of industry in Maine,strange)and fed their families that way.I myself never "jacked" deer but I nailed a few with my plow truck:)
 
#60 ·
I'll be eating the Liberals if it comes down to it.... I reload for every caliber I own, including 12 gauge. I have powder and primers to last to my grandkids time.. I have molds and cast my own with the ton of lead alloy I have collected. I can pan lube, tumble lube, press lube or powder coat.

I really cant see humans being able to wipe out the pig population in the US. They breed faster then we can kill them off now and if people are smart in a SHTF they will catch a male and female pig and breed them so they will always have meat.

I would use a 22 or even a pellet gun over a 12 gauge to take squirrels, rabbits and such but the 12 is best for ducks, geese and with slugs will take any large game animal

In SHTF you will come across small game more often then anything else so the pellet or 22 will be the best investment in a firearm you can do...
 
#61 ·
If SHTF happened tommorow I'd go with my 10/22 or 16 ga with 4, 7.5 or 8 shot for the small critters, #1 buck for bigger critters either of the 2 or 4 legged variety.. I'd prefer my M-1, AR 15 or Remington 742 30-06 for deer , bear boar or two legged critters. Then there's .357 ,38 spec. or good old 45 acp just in case... I hand load everything except rimfire & shotshells... Hopefully Maverick 88's in 20 & 12 gauge will be joining the family SOON, the way I see it ,those would make good HD pieces stoked with buckshot..
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top