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Hollow Points and Denim

4K views 15 replies 12 participants last post by  CCHolderinMaine 
#1 · (Edited)
So, I have watched several video tests for 9mm HP ammo. They are using blocks of gel or jugs of water with 4 layers of denim. From what I've seen most HP's get clogged with denim and do not expand. The one brand of ammo that seems the most reliable is Hornady Critical Defense. Do you agree with this? I would appreciate you input.
 
#2 ·
I have to say that there is a LOT of snake oil in the marketing of modern defensive ammo.

Just because someone makes a block of gel does not mean it is made to FBI standards

But as far as the denim bit goes, it is possible entirely that layered clothing could impede the expansion of a hollow point projectile. But the most important part of a defensive gunshot is shot placement, the second most important is penetration. Hitting CNS, lung or heart with good penetration, negates the need for the projectile to expand and dump its energy

There have been some studies that say cheap FMJ is just as effective as doller a round defensive loads as far as being able to stop a threat, although thats probably more of that snake oil that I mentioned.

Still, "stopping power" isn't supported by the numbers until you get into magnum and rifle rounds, you never really know what a bullet will do once it is shot, and how an attacker will respond to being hit and where.

Whether hollow point or ball, .45 or 9mm, its WHERE you hit thats going to matter most, and possibly where you hit several times
 
#4 ·
No such thing as a bullet that will perform to it's max capability every time. They will all fail at some point. So the answer lies in multiple hits to center mass, with enough penetration to get to the vitals, even if the bullet expands. If it doesn't expand, then you will most probably get over penetration, and possible hits to targets that you might not want to hit! While I do use Critical Defense in some of my CCW pistols, I mostly use Hornady XTP's. They are usually heavier in any given caliber, and are about as reliable as any other HP bullet out there.

Example: Hornady Critical Defense .380 gets about 10" of penetration in ballistic jell, when it expands as it should. Ball ammo in .380 will get you about 14" of penetration.

You might want to check out the difference between Hornady Critical Defense, and Hornady Critical Duty. http://www.hornady.com/support/critical-duty-and-critical-defense
 
#6 ·
I agree. I would like to add Hydro Shocks to your list. They don't always open up, but they do more times than not.
 
#7 ·
I watched a video (link below) the other day where a guy was shooting into the ballistic gel with denim and other things in front. The video was a test for .380 ammo using about twenty or so different types of commercial defensive ammo. The guy doing these tests came to the conclusion that any brand of ammo using an XTP bullet were the best to use. His final conclusion was that a brand called Precision One XTP was the absolute best. I shoot 9mm and have decided that I am going to buy some of that ammo to use in my P938, I just hope the results are the same for 9mm as it is for .380.

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/final-results-of-the-380-acp-ammo-quest/
 
#12 ·
Four layers of denim? Who the heck wears that?
A person wearing a denim jacket with an arm that gets in the way will have 3 layers. My understanding is that it is easy to reproduce from one test to another and represents a worst case scenario.

If they would bring back firing squads as a form of capital punishment we might learn a lot more about terminal ballistics in humans.
 
#9 ·
CampingJosh said:
Four layers of denim? Who the heck wears that?
Now that's a good point.

Living in the Central Plateau, people do bundle up in the winter. (Right now, it's exactly freezing and snowing lightly outside.) However, a full flat meplat of .357 caliber and up moving at 850 + fps doesn't clog up with denim, cotton, polyester, goose down or dry wall. The flat front and sharp corners tend not to 'slide' while penetrating, either.

CampingJosh said:
As said above, expansion is third. Placement and penetration are both more important. A .22LR through the eye beats a .454 through the arm.
I must agree with that. But I would say that a .38 or .45 nearly anything though the eye beats a .22LR through the eye.
 
#10 ·
A maxim I agree with is-Keep shooting until they think they're dead,not when you think they're dead.Shot placement is everything,I love talking to young kids that think a particular hollowpoint or brand is the best in the world.10s of millions have been killed by pure lead balls in history.But GoldDots rule:)
 
#11 ·
Anybody try these? They are poly filled 45 hollow points pushing 1250 fps.
Bullet
 
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