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Need magazine for savage model 1903

21K views 27 replies 10 participants last post by  Supascout 
#1 ·
Hello gun enthusiasts! Recently my father gave me my great grandfather's Savage model 1903. It is an early model octagonal BBL (chambered in .22 short). I have the original magazine but it is slightly damaged and doesn't work properly all the time. I am trying to find at least one more magazine so I can actually use my grandfather's gun. I have searched online and only found magazines made for the later model chambered in .22SL, .22 L and .22LR. This gun has sentimental value and I look forward to using it squirrel hunting. I've enclosed a pic of the rifle and magazine. Thank you all!
Metal
 

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#3 · (Edited)
Sure its not chambered for .22LR as well?
What does it say on the barrel?

It will be hard to find an original. Every once in a while you can find one on E-Bay or something, and they usually go for about $100. In some cases this can be more than the guns worth. I ordered a reproduction for mine from the URL below. It took over a year to get it, because they didn't have any in stock, and had to make a new production run.

The magazine will work for LR, but you will not be able to use it for shorts.

Hopefully they will have them in stock. The magazine that I ordered from them works great.

http://www.triplek.com/Products/id/38/grp/412/prd/1108/
 
#5 ·
Y

es the gun will not accept .22LR. The early models were gallery guns originally only chambered in .22short then in 1909 they began to offer it in .22LR. There is no caliber stamped on the barrel...another indicator it is a .22 short. Finally I purchased one of those replacement mags in .22LR and it does not fit.
 
#8 ·
Any of the later savage Magazines marked 22 S, L & LR should work - the magazine was redesigned and a patent was applied for in 1904, but not granted until 1908 that included changes so one magazine would handle all three sizes. The magazine you have pictured is the early style that used a formed sheet metal follower and a folded flat spring that often is found broken, later magazines used a different follower and a wire spring - maybe the original parts broke & latter, incorrect parts, were used to try and fix it, better pictures might show if it all original or not. The early magazines are easily identified by having one rib on each side that does not go all the way to the bottom.

I have found that sometimes the Triple-K magazines do not have the rear bends formed sharp enough, which leaves the magazine slightly over size and hard to fit in the gun - possibly this sometimes could be so bad they will not fit at all. Also the same basic magazine is sold for the 23-A & 1919 NRA and these will not fit correctly in a 1903 even thought they look identical at first glance.

The 1903 was offered in 22 S, L & LR from it's introduction if that were specified, several very low serial number guns have been observed chambered that way including serial number 40 (22 SHORT was the default chambering if not specified when the 1903 was introduced). 22 Short only guns are somewhat scarce but all I have seen have had the barrel stamped '22 SHORT'. The early guns in 22 S, L & LR were shipped with one magazine for 22 SHORT and one for 22 L & LR.



 
#9 ·
I posted a similar question in a different section earlier. A couple of additional questions here....

1)....My original clip doesn't want to handle shorts...it's labeled short, long and LR. Do these clips labeled for all three shell sizes really work with shorts?

2) .....Are there more than one source for replacement clips for these and / or will these handle all three shell sizes?

Thx much for any additional info!
 
#10 ·
I have found other sources for replacement magazines, but I have never found a reproduction that will handle the shorts. That doesn't mean that someone doesn't produce them though. I will see if I can find the other sources, and will post them when I do.

I can't help you on your first question. If the magazine is labeled S.L & L.R., then it should except them. I don't know why they wouldn't work.
 
#12 ·
I finally decided to do a test of some magazines with 22 Short. What I did was pull random magazines to see how well they functioned with 22 Short.

I started using a Model 1903 that was in average condition - that gave me a few issues so I then used a Model 1909 in better condition (exact same action) and found that to work much better. Even then I found if the action were worked to slowly there could be issues - I ended up working the action fairly fast and as smooth as I could. I looks like the added distance a 22 Short has to move before it starts to enter the chamber gives it more chances to move out of line if worked to slow or uneven. The magazine is not the only thing that can cause feeding issue. The ejector has an extension the swings over the magazine with the action open to hold the cartridge in feeding position - this swings back after about 3/16 travel of the bolt at which time the bolt should be against the rear of the cartridge and the rim should be caught by grooved extensions on the left side of the bolt and the hook of the extractor on the right which keeps the cartridge lined up horizontally - if your feeding issue involve the cartridge turning left or right there might be issues with these parts.

Magazines & test results -

-Triple-K 22 long rifle aftermarket - I found it would function reliably with shorts if only three rounds were loaded - load more and there was not enough pressure on the nose of the cartridges to keep the the front of the top one pointed up. To get an idea of why this is, lay 7 or 8 22 shorts out like they would set in a straight magazine and you will see the the bottom round has to be angled a lot to push the front of the top one up - the followers in the Triple-K do not seem to tilt enough to do that with more than three rounds loaded. With long rifles the Triple-K preformed well with 6 rounds or less, with the full 8 the first, if lined up in the magazine by hand, would load well but the next round occasionally caused problems.

-Savage factory magazines - I tried several randomly picked and loaded all to the 7 round capacity with shorts. Cycling the 1909 the same speed with all of them I had no failures to feed with any of the magazines, with a couple I ran the test twice.

The factory magazines tested were -
-2 different early version marked '22 SHORT'
- an early version marked 22 L & LR (yes, it fed short just fine)
- a couple of the 2nd version without the 1908 date
- a later one marked with the 1908 patent date
- A real late factory replacement with the formed sheet-metal follower that was introduced about 1923
- a Model 1912 magazine stamped '22 AUTOMATIC LONG RIFLE ONLY' (fed the shorts just fine, the stamping is just because the gun will only cycle well with long rifle, not because the magazine can't feed them).


I also tried another after market magazine for the 1903/1909/1912 that was based on the Marlin Model 50 magazine and was never intended to handle shorts. It did not preform very well but would feed shorts if cycled carefully and slower, sometimes requiring a pause & a little reward movement before they would fully chamber - but I had some similar issues with long rifle's . The follower seemed to be hanging up so maybe it's just an issue with the magazine I tried.
 
#13 ·
Magazines & test results -

-Triple-K 22 long rifle aftermarket - I found it would function reliably with shorts if only three rounds were loaded - load more and there was not enough pressure on the nose of the cartridges to keep the the front of the top one pointed up

. . . . . . . .With long rifles the Triple-K preformed well with 6 rounds or less, with the full 8 the first, if lined up in the magazine by hand, would load well but the next round occasionally caused problems.
Thanks for the very useful information Sav22.

Next time I take my 1909 out I'll have to try the shorts with the Triple-K after market mag. I have no issues loading the TRiple-K with all 7 long rifles in my 1909. So far they feed fine every time.
 
#14 ·
SAV22----wow......thx for all the great info! I will have to rerun my experiment (similar to what you did) and pay a little more attention to exactly what's going on. I do know that what I think is the original clip does not really want to handle the shorts...at least not all 7 of them. The last 2 or 3 do not want to stay "aligned" when the clip is fully loaded. I'll have to retry it with few shells loaded.
 
#15 ·
Tried cycling both shorts and LRs thru the model 1903 I recently acquired. The more shorts I load into the clip the more likely one or two are going to tip up as shown in my attached pic. This is a no load condition......they won't feed. If the angle is lower more horizontal then they will feed ....a little reluctantly. LRs do not seem to have the "tip up" issue and I was able to feed all 7 rounds. The feeding / ejecting seems to be "notchy" as I have to play with the slide a little to eject (especially). I haven't taken the gun really apart yet for a good cleaning so don't know if that is some of the issue or if the gun is really more worn than it appears. I've also attached a top view of my clip showing the tope edges of the clip sides....don't know if these have been "massaged" by someone in the past or not. It does appear that the shells do not have a problem with the left / right alignment, just up/ down. Thx in advance for any comments-observations anyone might have.

Green Screw
 
#16 ·
Don't know if this has anything to do with a magazine but one time I put the leaf spring in backwards in my Ruger M77 and it refused to feed correctly. After looking at an exploded view I figured out the problem and upon reversing the spring everything went back to normal. Maybe someone disassembled the magazine and put things back together incorrectly?
 
#17 ·
The ejector should swing out over the cartridge & keep it from tilting up as far as your pictures show when the magazine is in the gun - but of course as the bolt moves forward it swings back and maybe the top cartridge can tilt again when that happens. You say you are having problems with it ejecting? Maybe your ejector spring is weak which might be the reason for both problems.

Thought you might be interested in seeing in seeing where my randomly picked magazines for testing came from -
 
#19 ·
Impressive display of clips and also info. Question is, when you are buying used clips for say the model 1903 how do you know they are fully functional.....especially when buying via the "net" as opposed to a gun show or whatever where you can actually handle the clip? The one that came with the model 1903 I just got doesn't handle shorts well (as I mentioned earlier) and I tried it at the range the other day w LRs. When fully loaded w 7 rounds, the second round down from fully loaded stuck in the clip. With 5 LRs loaded, I shot around 40 rounds wo a hick-up.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Question is, when you are buying used clips for say the model 1903 how do you know they are fully functional.....especially when buying via the "net" as opposed to a gun show or whatever where you can actually handle the clip?
Well, you don't. It's always a gamble, you just have to look very close at the picture to try and make sure everything looks straight & correct and the you still take a chance. When I sold some magazines I always tested them in a at least two guns to be sure they worked, I don't think there are many others that test them before selling.

One simple thing you can do that sometimes helps function is to clean the inside rear of the magazine really well & make sure it's smooth - the top of the cartridge rim slides up the rear of the magazine and any rust or dirt might cause them to move unevenly, or possibly hold them slightly out of position. You can do this without taking the magazine apart by holding the follower down and out of the way with something. Just make sure you push it down evenly so it doesn't tilt & you get what ever you are pushing it with stuck between the follower & the case. I usually use a 22 caliber bronze bore brush for cleaning if there is a lot of roughness - you don't really need to get into the corners, just mainly the center.
 
#21 ·
I see one of these Model 1903 clips was at approx. $117 w a few minutes to go on e-bay. Really????? I didn't think these guns were worth all that much....only paid $150 for mine and that was because I was feeling a little guilty as it was a relatives. No way I would gamble that much on one of these or pay that much period. Rather buy a repro one and gamble on that.
 
#22 ·
I see one of these Model 1903 clips was at approx. $117 w a few minutes to go on e-bay. Really????? I didn't think these guns were worth all that much....only paid $150 for mine and that was because I was feeling a little guilty as it was a relatives. No way I would gamble that much on one of these or pay that much period. Rather buy a repro one and gamble on that.
Yeap, like I said in post #3 sometimes they cost more than the guns worth. Twenty years ago they went for around $35 and I thought that was high. $117 is about the highest I have seen. You usually see them for around $60 to $70. The model 1909 that I have was my dads, and it had a mag for the Sporter 23A, which was the wrong mag. It worked, but not very well.They seem to be a little harder to find, and cost a little more. If I find a buyer for that mag, I figure I could use that money to buy the right mag for my 1909. But... like you I would like to see what I'm buying, and I haven't found one locally yet.
 
#24 ·
I tried cleaning my existing clip as suggested by SAV22. It doesn't seem to make much difference. I notice that when I load 7 LRs the last couple have a pretty high spring load behind them, and when I attempt to cycle the gun thru all seven rounds that the first one chambers but when I eject it that round and the next one below eject at the same time. Seems to be too much spring load when all 7 LRs are loaded. I notice that the bottom of the clip can be removed (I think) and the guts of the clip will drop out. I may do that just to see if I can learn anything additional.

As a secondary topic, anyone ever tried to remove the stock on one of these? Looks like you only have to remove 1 screw, but the fit of the stock to the receiver looks extremely good and I'm wondering if there could be a problem due to the tight fit....wouldn't want to screw anything up. No lectures please about redoing the stock. Not a big fan of "patina" especially for low end guns that don't have much collector value.

Thx in advance for any info / feedback.
 
#25 ·
Well it seems like 1909 and other Savage models have clip related problems galore.
Just spent a day working on a 1909 for a friend that would not feed LR shells at all.
There was something missing from the bolt that held the firing pin up and the firing pin would drop down behind the clip and not let it cycle a round.
I would greatly appreciate it if I could find out what has gone missing off this rifle that held the firing pin in place.
I made an 1/8 inch square block and pinned it to the bolt under the firing pin to hold it up where it should be,.
Now it cycles bullets fine, but I don't know what has gone missing from the factory made assembly.
I can't see where anything has broken off the bottom of the bolt.
If you would take a look at the 1909 you have and see if the firing pin falls down when it is removed from the rifle.
If it doesn't, take a picture of it and send it to my email address if you have time.
I will give you my email address so you can possible send me a photo of the bottom of the bolt on your rifle.
Email address is :
lookoutmntrr@wildblue.net
The name is Greg
Thank you in advance.
 
#26 ·
IF you have an original bolt it will have a firing pin like the one shown in this link - http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Products/725860.htm That firing pin is held in place by two pins, one about .062" in the upper front and a much larger one in the lower rear. It sounds like your front pin is broken or missing.

Often you will find these with later replacement bolts, if that's the case then you will probably have a firing pin that has a 'L' shape part on top that hooks in a slot in the top of the bolt, if so, that piece is probably broken off. Part #35 pictured upside down this schematic, far right in the middle - http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufac...pringfieldFox-33479/Rifles-40502/14-39685.htm
 
#27 ·
You are spot on with your answer.
The firing pin I have has only the pin at the rear and a block of steel riding on a shelf on the front /top of the block.
The piece that rides in the slot on the shelf had broken off.
It took me awhile to figure out but once I noticed the remaining silver solder on the top of the firing pin, I had it.
I shaped a new piece of steel and silver soldered it onto the top of the firing pin. I've attached a photo.
My guess is the firing pin was bottoming out on the shoulder of the broken off piece.
I reworked the slot on the front end so that the pin on the back end receives most of the bottoming out force from the hammer striking the back of the firing pin.
Dry firing this rifle will definitely be a bad idea.
If it ever breaks again I will make a whole new firing pin and use Casenite to harden it.
Thanks for the come back, unfortunately I didn't see it until after I had figured out the problem myself.
 

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