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Tools for crimped primer pockets

4K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  stev32k 
#1 ·
Been loading lots of 223 this month which includes about 20% of crimped primer pocket brass. At one time I was not going to monkey with military brass but that has changed. I've been using the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2 tool which works fine but not great. After swagging, very few pieces of brass will take a primer with a normal amount of effort. I've adjusted the swage tool back and forth some and I'm quite confident it is adjusted correct. I see the crimps ironed out but what I see the problem to be is no taper or rounded edge at the mouth of the primer pocket.

So what I'm considering is picking up a reamer to use after I swage the primer pockets so I can slightly taper the mouth of primer pockets. Is this a typical process using a swage tool and reamer together on brass? If so, any recommendations on reaming tools?

I don't anticipate working a lot military brass so I'm looking at hand tools as opposed the more expensive RCBS or Dillon bench mount tools.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
I used the Hornady tool when I did a bunch of 7.62 NATO brass,I never swaged anything just reamed it out. You can just buy the L or S reamer or either with the handle or a combo pack containing everything, I chucked mine up in a cordless drill and made quick work of a couple hundred cases.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/481?
 
#3 ·
I've swaged over two thousand 223 brass with the RCBS primer pocket swager tool and never had a problem with hard to seat primers. Once the pockets have been swaged I can't tell the military brass from commercial brass unless I look at the headstamp.

Maybe there is a difference in the pressure required to seat the primers but I can't feel it.
 
#4 ·
Like Res45 above, I use the little $6 - $8 reamer chucked in a cordless drill and nothing else. My source of re loadable brass are the few thousand rounds of GECO 223 ammo I have and even being .223 brass they still have crimped primer pockets si I crimp every once fired case I have.

To sidetrack the thread slightly........... I'm tiring of hand holding the brass for all the steps necessary to get it ready to load so after Jan 01 I am ordering the Hornady Case Prep Center. ( http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Power-Case-Prep-Center )

I have seen them priced around $350 and they are eligible for the 2015 500 free bullet rebate which brings the after rebate price to around $200 +/_.

I'm pleased with my current setup using my RCBS Trim Pro-2 Kit but hand cranking the handle to trim several hundred cases at a time is quickly becoming the most boring part of reloading. After knocking out the primers and using the new case prep center above, I will trim the brass, ream the pockets if necessary, wire brush the pockets, de-burr the insides and outsides of the case necks then brush the case necks all in one fell swoop, handling the case one time rather than half a dozen individual steps.

Jeez, next thing you know I'll be looking at one of those fancy schmancy Lock-N-Load AP presses, then the Lock-N-Load Ammo plant. Where does the insanity stop? :)
 
#6 ·
When you swage you don't remove any metal...you just push it back from where it originally came when they did the crimp. When you ream you remove metal and leave a depressed area where the crimp was made adjacent to the primer pocket. So it theoretically is better to swage rather than ream.

But my experience with a bunch of Lake City 7.62 cases was that my expensive bench mounted Dillon primer pocket swage tool failed. In fact, the instruction with it warn of the failure. It seems the case head thickness lot to lot and year stamp to year stamp varies all over the place and the way the Dillon swage works requires the head thickness to be consistent. The swage tool that fits in the press where the case is held by the shell holder on the top of the press and the swage is on the ram does not have that problem.

I next tried the hand reamer in a drill motor but it made the entrance of the primer pocket smaller than the inside diameter of the primer pocket making seating primers hard. Finally I chucked up a chamfering tool in a drill motor and removed the edge enough so that the pocket walls were the same diameter top to bottom. I did not have the press mounted swaging tool described above and I think that would have been a much better choice if it removed all of the crimp. But I have not tested that yet. The chamfering worked fine but of course the primer pocket walls are a bit shorter now. That has not yet presented a problem.

Thought I would provide my experience and warn against the Dillon primer pocket swaging tool on Military cases, especially Lake City ones of various lots and head stamp dates.

LDBennett
 
#11 ·
I also have one of the Dillon primer pocket swage tools, and in my estimation it belongs on the same list as sliced bread and canned beer. Any problems I've encountered with it were because of a mal-adjustment (my fault) or an excessive burr in the flash hole on the brass I'm swaging. Like you said about the Lake City brass, some of them have exhibited more difficulty in the swaging than other brands of brass. I've attributed this more to the burr on the inside of the flash hole rather than web thickness. This burr is the result of the flash hole on American manufactured brass being punched through the primer pocket, as I'm sure you already know. A sharper punch results in a cleaner flash hole. A quick check, and the use of a flash hole de-burrer where needed eliminates just about all the aforementioned problems associated with the Dillon.
 
#26 ·
If you're talking about the Dillon Super Swager 600 you would be the first person I ever heard of that had one fail on them. And I'm not shilling for Dillon because I own one, I have the RCBS kit.
I re-read what I posted, I don't see anything that would suggest that my Dillon swage has failed. I've had this for 20+ years and it still works as good as the day I got it. The cases I ruined were because I got in a hurry and had the primer pocket off-center from the swage punch.
 
#8 ·
Thanks guys, all your comments were very helpful!!

Steve32k:
Your reply tells me that either I've got a defective tool (which I really doubt) or I do not have it set up correctly. I just got done adjusting the tool until I was able to get what feels like a normal amount of pressure to seat a primer.. Of course this required a great deal more exertion on the ram up stroke to swage and down stroke to strip the case free. Initially I felt like this was too much stress on my press. After that adjustment, I seated primers in 10 cases without any addition effort over a non-crimped case. I think I'm good now, I'll re-swage then prime the balance of my brass this weekend, just don't like the extra exertion on the press.

res45:
I'm going to add that tool to my next order just to have, just in case. I read several online reviews and it is a highly favored hand tool.

Show Low:
Don't tempt with my more toys and free bullets :). Right now the only rifle round I load in large qty is .223. Maybe if/when I get a .308, I can justify more automation. But you do need a progressive press for your pistol loads whether that be the LNL AP or a Dillon. I predict that will be your 2015 purchase ;).

Soundguy:
Thanks for the confirmation. I didn't think it was necessary for both tools but wanted to see if that was part of someone's workflow.

LD:
Always appreciate your input. Since I am 'pushing metal back" I should have expected more effort on press operation.
 
#10 ·
RCC:

Glad to hear you got the adjustment right and are now successful. The tool you are using in my opinion is the right tool IF it indeed removes all of the crimp. If all the Military brass with crimps have variations in head thickness as I found and Dillon instruction indicate then the Dillon tool is the wrong tool for the job unless ALL the cases are from the same lot. You'll never know that when you buy a bunch of un-process Military cases.

LDBennett
 
#12 ·
Twicepop:

If what you say is true why has Dillon pointed out the head thickness variations as a potential problem?

I have limited experience with one batch of 1000 Once Fired Lake City 7.62 brass. The head stamp dates varied all over the place so the possibility I got the same lot number is next to impossible. Could it be that you ended up with the same lot number?

If I get the opportunity to check out your solution I will.

LDBennett
 
#13 ·
I've used a countersink bit available from any tool supply store, I've used the chamfering/deburring tool but now I use the Lyman primer pocket uniformer in my prep station. It's a one time deal and I don't worry about the loss of that little bit of brass. I've seen pictures of brass that have been decrimped with a countersink or deburring tool and they took it all the way out to the nato stamp. That to me is a bit excessive.
 
#14 ·
I have been a machinist/mechanic for most of my life. When I first encountered primer crimps my solution went immediately to a chamfer tool. I have been using a 60 degree countersink to remove primer crimps for my 9mm, 45 ACP, 5.56, and 30-06 brass for mebbe 20 years and have found/seen no need for "reforming"/swaging a primer pocket. Nope, no sloppy loose or too tight pockets, no "danger" of removing "too much" metal from the case head, and from a machinist's standpoint, the best/easiest method...
 
#16 ·
I just have the Lyman hand reamer that also puts a bit of a taper on the pocket. I don't load for speed, so a few evenings spent completing that process on my brass is just more time spent "meditating". I separate the cases out that need this done as I can vouch that they are once-fired in this way and use these for my loads where I'm looking for the greatest accuracy versus just plinking rounds.
 
#19 ·
gandog56:

I was the one that had the problem. If I am the first person then why is it in the Dillon instructions say that the head thickness impacts the adjustment. If every lot of LAKE CITY brass has a different head thickness it is hard to get uniform result. That is exactly what I found on 7.62 brass of various head stamp dates and even within the same head stamp date (obviously different lots). I abandon using the Dillon swager for that brass. It may work fine on other brass (???).

If you still have your instructions you might read them to verify what I said is true.

LDBennett
 
#22 ·
I picked up the RCBS press swag kit a couple days ago and have processed 70 LC 5.56 cases with it. All had a crimp that made a complete circle around the primer hole rather than at just 3 or 4 locations. I find this very obnoxious as it created a fine ring of brass that tended to break off and foul the primer pocket or priming tool.

What ended up working the best for me was to tighten down the swag till the press linkages made a loud "clunk" when it cammed over and took a very strong forward stroke of the press arm to dislodge it from the tool. This was what it took to create the bevel around the primer pocket. I'd not recommend a Hornady press for this process as the harsh mechanical banging about caused the die to unlock and pop out. I'm also not sure how it will hold up to hundreds of swag operations as it is cast aluminum.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I have started using the Lyman chamfer tool in my cordless drill. Eliminates the crimp completely and quickly. Have loaded 100 of the military brass that I have done this way and the primers seated good. Takes very little effort to ream the crimp out of the primer pocket with the chamfer tool chucked up in the cordless drill. Then chamfer the case mouth while you are at it.
 
#28 ·
I use the RCBS swedge tool on a Lee Classic press. It is the solid cast iron press that is big enough and strong enough to reload 50 BMG. After getting the swedge tool I had to call RCBS and get them to send me a larger stripper cup. The one in kit is for a .75" ram and the Lee press has a 1.125" ram. It does take some pressure to inset the swedge into the primer pocket and even more force to get the case off the swedge (don't ever forget to put the stripper cup over the ram!). I keep a Q-tip moistened with rem oil and wipe the swedge about every ten rounds that helps a lot.

I just finished processing 3,000 lake city 5.56 brass and everyone of them was swedged and the primers went in with very little effort - just a firm push seated them perfectly.
 
#29 ·
I'll back up LD on the Dillon being finicky with case head variances. Even more so than the Rcbs kit. I borrowed the Dillon from Time2Shoot last year and got frustrated after a couple dozen cases. Then I used a 60 degree countersink in my drill press. Last month I bought a used Rcbs kit and did 1000 with no problem. About 80 of them were a different headstamp but I could tell the difference and tossed them in a bowl for later staging with a readjust of die.

Steve, did they charge you much for the extra large stripper cup? That would be nice then I could use it in my Herters press
 
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