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What the heck is going on with triggers?

5K views 18 replies 13 participants last post by  68c15 
#1 ·
First there was Glock. Had a dingus sticking out from the middle of the trigger, and when you started to pull the trigger, it cocked the gun.

Then there was Savage. They started putting some dingus in the middle of their trigger. Claimed it was something about accuracy. I've never even touched one, let alone shot one, but it sure looks stupid.

Gallery of Guns is giving away a Ruger American Rimfire, so I pull up a picture off Google, so I can see a profile view, instead of that artsy-fartsy slanted pic in the ad, and what do you know? Ruger has put a trigger with some kinda dingus sticking out of the middle of it, on their plastic rifle.

What the heck?

Is that the latest thing now? Everyone is going to that stupid-looking trigger?
 
#4 ·
I never could figger how that dingus was a safety. I mean, if you pull on it the gun goes bang. Isnt that what a trigger is supposed to do? I got rid of my wifes M&P 9 and got her a XD subcompact 9 because it has the backstrap safety along with the stupe dingus which I call a trigger.
 
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#5 ·
A little video help;

The problem here is that if your clothing gets caught inside the trigger guard, the gun, with no other safety can still fire, when holstered. Remember that the firing pin is already at half cock. With no grip safety this is a AD waiting to happen. We have seen, and read stories of just this very thing happening, even to trained LEO's.
 
#7 ·
Here's the theory:

Safety in any trigger is creep. That is, the movement of the sear before the sear releases the hammer or firing pin. The more creep, the more the engagement and the safer the the gun. Guns with good triggers have little creep, little engagement, and reduced safety (in general). So how can you have both safety and a great low creep trigger?

You block the mechanism with the blade sticking out of the trigger face. Once the blade is pulled you can have a creep minimized trigger pull. Some of these trigger blade safeties are so safe that a separate manual safety is eliminated.

This blade safety can be designed for striker fired arms or hammer fired arms.

Here is my take on triggers for handguns. The safest trigger in my book is a two stage trigger. All of the first stage is creep (that is, moving the sear to the edge of engagement shelf). At that point in the travel, a tiny bit of spring force that you can feel is added and an increase in pull force to overcome it sets the gun off.

Without this blade safety device rifle triggers with extremely light pulls are dangerous. You can practice flipping the manual safety off an instant before you pull the trigger. But any interruption in that process may leave the gun a bit low on safety.

So, What is my conclusion? All handguns need two stage triggers. All rifles need two stage triggers or this blade safety in the trigger face. That is in a perfect world. Until then we are the gun's safety in our gun handling practices.

Before the Savage safety trigger with the blade trigger, pulls on all guns were dictated by lawyers to avoid lawsuits. They were getting particularly heavy (lots of spring force also assures a level of increase gun safety) with lots of creep. Triggers in new guns are enhanced by this non-conventual approach to trigger design. Embrace it or start doing exercises for the trigger finger to be able to pull the lawyer's triggers. Savage has gone in exactly the right direction to satisfy the shooter and the lawyers. Ask Remington about lawsuits on their decidedly unsafe Model 700 trigger. There is even a book written about this superb feeling (but low in safe operation) Remington trigger (even a TV video about it).

Just my thoughts and yours may differ.

LDBennett
 
#8 ·
I agree LD, but I prefer a manual safety, and for the same reasons you've described. I can have the light trigger, and still be safe, so long as I remember the manual safety, and remember to keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to drop the hammer.
 
#9 ·
carver:

Think about it. The blade in the trigger face is a manual safety and it is at your finger tip. The amount of time the gun has the trigger mechanism "off safe" is minimized as it is milliseconds not seconds. And the trigger can be much lighter in pull.

My shooting is off a bench most of the time. I don't hunt. All my rifle triggers have been lightened. I rarely use the manual safeties and only close the bolt seconds before shooting. My habits are probably a bit less safe than yours but would be as good or better than yours with the Savage blade safety device. To me two stage triggers are better yet for both rifles and handguns but the blade safety might be easier to design and make.

Older guns use to have excellent triggers then the lawsuits forced the manufacturer's to change that to avoid lawsuits. With the blade safety Savage system you can have both safety and excellent trigger pulls at reduced trigger pull levels. I'd vote for that! So what that it looks different!

LDBennett
 
#10 ·
The manual safety, say on a 1911, is dropped as the pistol comes up in line, and is no slower than any other method. And with it in the safe position, the pistol simply can not be fired accidently like a Glock can. You will not see any videos, or hear stories of the 1911 style pistols being discharged when reholstering, if the safety is set. This is not the case with striker fired pistols like the Glock, and other models. http://gunssavelives.net/blog/video...jacket-drawstring-causes-negligent-discharge/
 
#11 ·
I don't mind a stupid dingus being on a trigger if it means lighter let off and a safer trigger, but I'd want a manual safety as well as a stupid dingus, if I'm out in the brush hunting with a rifle equipped with a dingus only and a piece of brush snagged the dingus it would go off just like a glock could go off if your clothes happen to snag the dingus when holstering it, something that a manual safety would prevent.
 
#12 ·
Thank you LDBennet for that nice summary. I thought I knew how the trigger "blades" worked, but I certainly couldn't have articulated it anywhere close to as well as you did!
To each his own when it comes to a mechanical safety. I suppose I understand that I could get my shirt caught in say, a P226's, trigger guard when re-holstering. If the gun had a safety, if I remembered to put it on, then that couldn't happen.
Or, I could remember to make sure my shirt didn't get stuck in my trigger.
It still comes down to me, and being careful and sure of my actions. I prefer semi-autos without mechanical safeties. Anybody uncomfortable with theirs, can send it to me ;)
 
#13 ·
I am comfortable either way. When I have my 1911 in my grip I use the thumb safety as properly needed. When I hold my Glock or Springfield XD45 I operate it as properly needed. It's not like when I am getting ready to pull the trigger on my 1911 I begin to engage the trigger as if it were a two stage. And visa-versa for my Glock and Springfield XD45.

It comes down to learning each firearm through repetitious use.

I can appreciate the little dingy thingy hanging on the savage. They have a great trigger. Purdy is what purdy does.
 
#14 ·
I have 2 Savage MarkIIf's in .22lr. One with the "dingus" and one without. I can tell you with the utmost confidence it makes a big difference having the "Accutrigger". Both were cleaned at same time using same method. Shot at same time using same ammo and same target/distance. The "dignus" equipped one had 1/4 the group size.
 
#15 ·
My son has the Savage with this trigger. Very accurate. On my semi auto handguns I want a safety. I don't consider that trigger safety much of a safety. My sons freind is a deputy for the county sheriff. He told me all the deputies carry their Glocks with no bullet in the chamber. When they draw their gun they are trained to pull the slide charging the gun. I would rather have a safety.
 
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#16 ·
For carry I would think that a double action trigger would be the best. When it takes nearly or more than 10 lbs of pull I highly doubt that anything other than a direct pull of the trigger will set the gun off. The best example I can think of is the all metal SIG's with the hammer drop safety. The P225 comes to mind as an excellent compact 9mm carry gun and it is all metal, NO plastic anything or weird trigger and no manual safety (hammer drop safety). There are other SIG's including the old P220 (45ACP) and some of the high capacity 9's (is it the P229??). I don't carry so what do I know???

LDBennett
 
#17 ·
If I were a gambling man, I would bet money that no striker fired gun will have as light a pull as well tuned 1911. If you believe that a light trigger is synonymous with tight groups, then give a well tuned 1911 a try. For those of you who believe a manual safety is slower to fire, or get into action, than a striker fired gun, well, you got another think coming!:D
 
#19 ·
Draw and rack slide at same time? Kind of hard while off hand is holding flash light or donut

That does explain why the cop got a bit uneasy a while back. I was pulled over for missing plate and when I told him about my side arm being loaded and chambered he asked me to put it in glove box and step out of car
 
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