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Straight Walled Rifle for Deer Hunting

10K views 31 replies 13 participants last post by  zkovach 
#1 ·
I hope I am posting in the right section. If not, feel free to move....

I am looking at rifles for my son to deer hunt with in Ohio, which allows some straight-walled cartridges. I was initially looking at Henry 44 mag but someone suggested a 45-70. I am honestly not very knowledgeable when it comes to rifles and was looking for some feedback. Right now, he uses a 12 ga shotgun for deer hunting. My thought is that unless a rifle, with a good scope, allows him to shoot at a greater distance, there really isn't an advantage to using a rifle.
So, my questions are....
1. Would a 45-70 reach out farther, compared to a 44 mag?
2. Any other suggestions in straight-walled cartridges. Legal cartridges are the following (Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith& Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.)
3. Other than Henry, any suggestions on other makes and types (i.e. bolt action vs. lever vs. single shot)?

I am looking to stay around $650-$750 for the gun and then add a scope.

Thanks for any input you can provide!!!
 
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#2 ·
I don't know what the terrain in Ohio is like, but I would think that it is similar to Georgia so it is probably thick woods. I have never had a shot much over a 100 yards here in Georgia so any of the calibers you mention would probably handle 100 to 150 yards. The last deer I killed was with a single shot, H&R Handi Rifle in 45/70. It was only a 35-40 yard shot but it stopped dead in its tracks.
 
#24 ·
The terrain in Ohio varies from being almost table top flat to VERY hilly and rugged. My brother told me that Paulding County was supposed to be the flattest county in the continental U.S. He could be right, following US 30 west toward Indiana through Van Wert County, it skims the southern edge of Paulding County. You can see to the north for miles on that table top flat ground. The south/eastern corner of the state is just the opposite.
 
#3 ·
Are you handloading or buying ammo over the counter? If handloading any of the cartridges mentioned would be fine with the exceptions of, in my opinion; 38 Spl., 41 Colt, 45 ACP and I'm not certain what a 45 S&W is unless it's the old Schofield cartridge and I wonder your differentiation between 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt? A 45 Colt in a rifle is potent deer medicine. It's pretty darn good in a strong revolver.

If buying over the counter frankly I'd stick with the more common cartridges. 44 Mag, 444 Marlin, 357 Mag., maybe 38-55 and the 45-70 is never wrong. Choosing one of the old, bigger BP cartridges I believe you will be getting into something you never planned on. First off you won't find much of a rifle, if any, for them in the price you mentioned. Secondly, ammo cost will choke a mule unless you hand load, cast your own bullets and develop your own.

Rifles, that really is a personal preference. In a lever action I prefer the old Marlin's and Winchester's to the Henry. This is purely my opinion, an older Marlin 1895 in 45-70 sounds about right up your alley. Among bolt rifles I'm not certain of what is available today in a rimmed, straight/straight taper cartridge. I'm aware of some older rifles so chambered but better put a 2 or 3 as a minimum in front of your $650-$750. I don't know of any single shots in that price range I'd consider unless a fella got lucky and came across a Ruger #1 or #3 in 45-70 at that price. Lots of folks like the....is it called a "Handy Rifle"(?) on the old single shot shotgun style frame and evidently they shoot quite well. Those have zero appeal to me but that's a matter of taste and I admit my tastes are unconventional at best. Some have another word for them...lol!

Will a 45-70 reach farther than a 44 Mag.? Ahhh....yes sir, significantly...but ranges would need to be accurately known as well as the trajectory of the load in the rifle.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Are you handloading or buying ammo over the counter? If handloading any of the cartridges mentioned would be fine with the exceptions of, in my opinion; 38 Spl., 41 Colt, 45 ACP and I'm not certain what a 45 S&W is unless it's the old Schofield cartridge and I wonder your differentiation between 45 Colt and 45 Long Colt? A 45 Colt in a rifle is potent deer medicine. It's pretty darn good in a strong revolver.

If buying over the counter frankly I'd stick with the more common cartridges. 44 Mag, 444 Marlin, 357 Mag., maybe 38-55 and the 45-70 is never wrong. Choosing one of the old, bigger BP cartridges I believe you will be getting into something you never planned on. First off you won't find much of a rifle, if any, for them in the price you mentioned. Secondly, ammo cost will choke a mule unless you hand load, cast your own bullets and develop your own.

Rifles, that really is a personal preference. In a lever action I prefer the old Marlin's and Winchester's to the Henry. This is purely my opinion, an older Marlin 1895 in 45-70 sounds about right up your alley. Among bolt rifles I'm not certain of what is available today in a rimmed, straight/straight taper cartridge. I'm aware of some older rifles so chambered but better put a 2 or 3 as a minimum in front of your $650-$750. I don't know of any single shots in that price range I'd consider unless a fella got lucky and came across a Ruger #1 or #3 in 45-70 at that price. Lots of folks like the....is it called a "Handy Rifle"(?) on the old single shot shotgun style frame and evidently they shoot quite well. Those have zero appeal to me but that's a matter of taste and I admit my tastes are unconventional at best. Some have another word for them...lol!

Will a 45-70 reach farther than a 44 Mag.? Ahhh....yes sir, significantly...but ranges would need to be accurately known as well as the trajectory of the load in the rifle.
Thanks for both of your replies. I rarely take a shot over 50 yards anymore but my eyes aren't as good as my son's! Lol

We will be buying ammo over the counter. I do load some, but more for the AR, with the help of a friend who loads. I can't imagine shooting enough with this rifle that I would load my own ammo, or I should say my son's ammo. The cartridges I list were cut and pasted from the Ohio regs.

What do you mean by "a bigger BP cartridge"?
 
#8 ·
I have a Marlin 1894S 44mag and am going to buy something along the lines of a $300 CVA single shot 45-70 for next year's Ohio gun season. The 45-70 with my bullet of choice, will offer me less wind drift, less drop, and better terminal ballistics, (overkill.)
 
#10 ·
My Ohio deer gun is now a Marlin 375, chambered for the .375 Winchester. I didn't get out this past season (last week) but at where I used to work our former Safety Director used this caliber in PA. He said they never chased a deer very far after hitting it with this caliber. The load I use is a Hornady 220 grain soft point launched with 35.0 grains of Rx 7. The velocity is approx. 2050-2100 fps at the muzzle. Mine is about a 2 inch gun at 100 yards with this load. I bought a Lyman 264 grain gas check bullet mold, and am going to give this a try.
 
#11 ·
IMHO, any thing from .357 on up will get the job done on deer out to about 125 yards, with open sights, if your eye sight is good enough. For me the .44 mag is one of my deer hunting rifles, while my brother likes the 45-70.
 
#13 ·
What Griz said, BP=black powder, the cartridges he listed from your initial post. The 45-70, 45-90, 50-70 and sometimes the 50-90 are fairly easy to load accurate ammo for. My experience is once the powder charge goes over 80 grs. of real black powder fouling becomes an issue to contend with. Except for the 45-70, which came out in 1873, I believe you will be better served with smaller caliber, smokeless powder cartridges rather than the old BP cartridges.

I also had a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag. and it was a good, close range deer killer for me using the same bullet weight mla6021 mentioned as no doubt would be the 45 Colt at 250-255 gr weight of bullet. I had a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 also and nothing bad can be said about it. Twicepop mentioned the 375 Win. and that would be fine cartridge. It's basically a souped up 38-55 except that the two are not interchangeable.

Apparently your Ohio department knows as much about cartridges as does ours in Missouri....precious little. Writing regulations out of ignorance, typical government.
 
#14 ·
Sharps,

Sadly, I know even less than the Ohio department knows about cartridges, if that wasn't already obvious! lol

So are you saying the 45-70 is fairly easy to hand load? Also, being in my shoes, would you choose the 44 mag or 45-70? I am looking at the Henry lever actions. They are both about the same price, with the 45-70 actually being $20 cheaper through an casual friend who has his FFL.

Thanks for all of the comments from all of you. It has been very helpful.
 
#16 ·
So are you saying the 45-70 is fairly easy to hand load? Also, being in my shoes, would you choose the 44 mag or 45-70? I am looking at the Henry lever actions.
We could tell you what to get, but that may not be the best for you.
Take my situation for instance; I did all the ballistic calculations, and was confident my choice with the 44mag cartridge. I asked around the forums, and a old Marlin was the preferred manufacturer. So that is what I got a Marlin 1894S 44mag..
Later, I discover the twist rate is 1 in 38. So all my calculations went out the window, the rifle cannot stabilize the 300gr bullet I wanted to use.

So the replacement for my 357 handgun deer load, has less wind drift than the 44mag rifle load.
That had not improved my deer hunting capabilities.

We don't know the particulars, so we can't give you definate answers; but we can give you our experiances, along with assorted facts.
 
#17 ·
We could tell you what to get, but that may not be the best for you.
Take my situation for instance; I did all the ballistic calculations, and was confident my choice with the 44mag cartridge. I asked around the forums, and a old Marlin was the preferred manufacturer. So that is what I got a Marlin 1894S 44mag..
Later, I discover the twist rate is 1 in 38. So all my calculations went out the window, the rifle cannot stabilize the 300gr bullet I wanted to use.

So the replacement for my 357 handgun deer load, has less wind drift than the 44mag rifle load.
That had not improved my deer hunting capabilities.

We don't know the particulars, so we can't give you definate answers; but we can give you our experiances, along with assorted facts.
Thanks Rifleman. I understand what you are saying. I'm just not knowledgeable when it comes to the rifles. I have no idea how to do any calculations or where to even begin. I am learning a great deal through all the comments.
 
#15 ·
45-70 would be my choice, and you could buy commercial loads safe for lever actions. Can take just about anything in America with it, if your range is correct.

Dont get me wrong, I love pistol cartridge carbines too, the 45-70 just gives you more margin for error.
 
#19 ·
What Rifleman offered is certainly good grist for the mill and soundguy gave a fair description of the difference...and a picture!

As far as handloading and any level of difficulty I don't believe there's any difference between the 45-70 and the 44 Mag. Both are pretty much a slam dunk to reload and there's skads of data and components out there for either. The 45-70 will cost more to reload but not a lot. Which one is the most fun depends on the person pulling the trigger. Either will kill a deer grave yard dead within their range limitations. The 45-70 is more versatile if bigger game than deer might be in the future. For deer and smaller game the advantage goes to the 44 Mag. Thinking of it in those terms a good case could be made for having one of each. If none of your family or hunting buddies are much into shooting and handloading and are used to modern cartridges there's a bit of a "cool factor" with the hoary 45-70. It has a long and illustrious history also, 143 years. It is a pretty cool looking cartridge.
 
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#20 ·
Thanks! All of this information has been helpful. I am kind of leaning toward the 45-70 because we have talked about going on a bear hunt when he is out of high school. I do like the idea of buying both a 44 mag & a 45-70 but not sure how my wife will feel about that! I think she is catching on to my line about guns being an "investment"! lol
 
#21 ·
Bear? Bigger is better for bear :)

While I'd consider 44mag wheel gun good emergency " Repellant" for bear if one decided he couldn't live without me... I probably wouldn't purposefully go stalk one with that as my main/only gun.

Sure, 45-70 is a bazooka for a deer..so choose your shot to minimize meat loss. Lil squirrel hunting with a 22lr, etc.

As sharps said.. A great compromise is getting both!

Each has their own benefit. A 44mag on deer will prevent overkill ;)
 
#30 ·
I'll point out something here , while both of the cartridges under discussion are quite novice handloader friendly , the .45-70 will prove to be a bit more versatile in the long run. It will need to be handloaded for to get the most out of it however. And one will have to live with the recoil.

Examples , a 300 grain Gameking over 60 grains of 4198 renders 2300 plus a little out of a 20 inch , 2100 plus out of my 18.5 Guide guns , 2550 plus out of a 24 inch tube. *NOTE* this load is only safe in Marlin '95s , Handi Rifles the Ruger No. 1 and 3 and other modern rifles......again NOT Springfield safe.

I've taken more hogs with the above than I can count , quite a few black bear , deer of course and a few moose and elk.

Want a stopping load for the big bears? Try a 550 grain Jae Bak Young Crater over over 45 grains of 4895 , or a 525 grain Beartooth wide over 52 of the same propellant.

These are proven emergency Bear stoppers that are running just under the 4 thousand foot lb mark with a slug that's heavier than most shotgun slugs.

Plinking rounds? Cast up a buncha 250s from wheel weights build some mild loads and have fun , even try some blackpowder loads.

All this is not to say that I don't like the .44 mag in a lever gun , I've got a couple and enjoy them immensely , good deer ,hog ,black bear , cat rifles.
 
#31 ·
I'm in Michigan and the round everyone loves is the 450 bushmaster, it's amazingly accurate and it's 300 yard gun. Ruger is making a bolt gun now around 550 bucks retail or you can put it on an AR platform. I would highly suggest this round and is gaining a lot of steam!
 
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