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Help with Iver Johnson Safety Automatic ID

3K views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  Mikes4re 
#1 · (Edited)
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Hello,

I'm new to this forum so hope that I'm posting in correctly. I'd like help in identifying Grandpa's IJ safety auto. For description it's a dual post break top, external hammer, auto eject, no safety lever, flat main spring, plastic owl grips w/beak facing barrell. No pat. stamp. Cylinder spins free when closed. Appears to be (by my measure) .38 Reg. Barrell is currently about 2 3/8" however Grandpa was an active gunsmith so it is possible that he shortened and recrownded it as the front sight bland looks different than othe IJ's I've seen. Grips are plastic. Serial number under left grip is 13625 and matches the number on bottom of the trigger guard. No other markings anywhere. Other clues are that Grandpa carried this as his concealed into the 1980's and as a gunsmith and expert marksman I'm doubtful that he would carry a black power gun but it is possible as I'm sure here thought of it as "disposable". Any help in figuring out what it really is would be great. I have photos and with luck will include them here.
 

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#3 ·
Hey There, Bruce. First I want to thank you for taking the time to help me. I just got her and pulled the cylinder apart again to check. No spring (#7) there. Is it possible that I have a "transition" year revolver? It sort of has Mod 2 and Mod 3 characteristics??
 
#5 ·
You have a 2nd Model Safety Hammer Automatic revolver that was made between 1895-1908. I cant tell if the prefix is a T or I. Can you take a picture if the top strap and butt. There should be some patent dates that will help identify the year of manufacture.

It is a black powder frame, and is not safe for modern smokeless ammunition.
 
#6 ·
Thank you too Shrek. Not sure how people got by before the inter web for access to experts such as yourselves. As an update, there are no markings on top rail or butt at all (will attach photos) but I pulled the grips off and looked again using a loop and, what do you know?, there is a very faint and off spaces "M" in front of the 5 digit serial number. Does this help?
 

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#8 ·
Welcome to TFF.
The "M" prefix would make it 1904 and yes, it appears to have a "grandpa custom" front sight. Might it just be that when the custom barrel work was done, the stampings on top of the barrel were eliminated?

The .38 S&W round was indeed a large frame round.
 
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#10 ·
Thanx Bob,

Appreciate the help. I recognize the style of that front sight blade as one Grandpa used often on such repairs so suspected this lil' bastard had his custom touch to it. Entirely possible that markings on the top strap got lost in the doing of it. So that would make it a Mod 2? Assuming then black powder rounds only? Not that I would fire this thing much but I would like to see it fire now and again. Sentimental value. While Grandpa carried this concealed into his 80's, when he hit his 90's he took to carrying a Ruger Blackhawk flat top in .357 mag inside a brown paper lunch sack where ever he went. When I suggested that he may be on the wrong side of the law his response was, "what are they gonna do, put me in jail for life? I'm 90 years old"
 
#13 ·
2nd Model 8th Variation Safety Hammer Automatic is the proper name for your revolver.

Lot of gunsmithing done on this little gun. The barrel was shortened and the stamping would have been around the area where he added the front sight. There should be a stamping on the butt with the patent dates, and was removed if its no longer there. Someone also cut a notch on the inside of the backstrap to accommodate a larger mainspring.

The spring Bruce is referring to creates friction on the cylinder to slow it down while cycling the action, and it can be fired without it.
 
#11 ·
Yes, it's a Model 2 in the eighth variation made in 1904 as indicated by the "M" prefix serial number. The placement of the serial number on the trigger guard of your piece also indicates it being an 8th variation as well but, as on the top of the barrel, you mention no patent dates on the bottom of the butt strap which would normally be there were it not for grandpa's custom work.

While no exact date has been nailed down, the cylinder hand tension spring was changed from a flat leaf type to a round piano wire type sometime before 1903 and during manufacture of the 2nd model. There were however, some carry-over between the two variations of springs used and JFYI, there were 10 variations of the 2nd model. Perhaps your spring has been lost? And as you've been informed, this is a black powder handgun.
 
#12 ·
Both black powder and smokeless 38 S&W will fit in this gun. I have read that some folks do shoot low load smokeless in these. I would not, but your GF may have. Black Powder cartridges are commercially available, but not inexpensive. https://www.buffaloarms.com/38_Smith_Wesson_Ammo_it-831095.aspx

I fired about 15 rounds of BP ammo through my IJ after a gun smith went over it and felt it was ok to fire.

Here is a dealer where you can get the cylinder spring from and any other parts you might need.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufa...odelSafetyHammerAutoRevolver-38246.htm?page=5
 
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