Re: Did Some P22 Homework Finally!
Close-up photos of an original Walther extractor as compared to the new one. The difference is very obvious. I'm also throwing in a little history on the mods which led to Walther's redesign. M1911
The original Walther P22 extractor. Notice the square cut and the size of the gap as measured from the face of the breech block to the extractor face.
The "gap" that existed with the original extractor and the reason for poor ejection direction. I know the extractor spring is not installed in this photo but it makes no difference regarding the point that is illustrated.
The "new" extractor offered by Walther. The only redesign and the newest extractor offered by Walther for the P22. Notice the additional length of the tip and the undercut which allows the gap between the breech face and tip to be reduced. This concept came from some of the extractor mods I made to correct ejection direction. Walther cannot duplicate my efforts exactly as that would involve custom fitting for specific types of ammunition. They sell a pistol for world wide use but they have made a huge improvement with the new extractor.
Remember, the extractor "does not" extract a spent casing when firing. The blow back gasses do that job. The extractor is necessary for removing unfired rounds when unloading the firearm, etc. The extractor also should play a very important part in ejection direction. What happens is the spent case, flying rearward very fast due to burned powder pressure is blown from the chamber, hits the ejector on the left edge of the cartridge rim. This causes the case to bounce forward and to the right and in the process be ejected from the firearm. With a properly designed extractor the rim on the cartridges right side is held captive by the extractor causing the ejector to "pivot" the case over the extractor's tip. A large gap here keeps the extractor from being able to perform this critical role.
What my shooting has shown is the that the large gap of the original P22 extractor allowed the cartridge to float around and bounce off the ejector in any direction causing poor ejection authority and direction. If the extractor to breech face gap is reduced by peening the tip rearward, or making your own tighter tolerance extractor or installing the new Walther extractor with the reduced gap, then the extractor actually begins to play its part in causing the rim to catch on the tip and the case to "have" to pivot over the extractor tip when bouncing off the ejector. The result, consistent ejection direction and with more authority.
The new Walther extractor with a round sitting on the breech face. Notice the reduction in the "gap". Walther of course understood what I was doing here and finally got with the program. S&W was furnished the new style extractors and a number of folks requested and received them.
Above is a contraption I made where I filled the existing pivot hole in the extractor and drilled another more toward the front. This closed the gap, was ugly but worked great. Compare this prototype to the VQ model shown below. :D
Many years ago and in a distant galaxy I figured out what the problem was and posted this picture of how to peen the tip to reduce the gap thus cure ejection direction. Note: The red portion is the part of the original tip that has been peened rearward to reduce the gap. In the process it has also become very sharp. This is good. Notice also that the tip hasn't been peened, rounding it inward, but remains in a proper shape for grasping the rim of a round. NOTE: The peening mod was for the original extractor only. You cannot peen the new one. There is no supporting metal under the tip and it will break off. The new model was designed to reduce the gap.
How to peen threads were posted along with before and after photos.
A step by step thread was posted on how to file your own perfectly fitted extractor from the barrel wrench.
The fit was so good that a round would actually be held against the breech face. Ejection direction was perfect. Then: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 DogFish said, "heck there is nothing to this" and milled some absolute beauties, for free. I got two, pictured flanking an original above, and they are both in operation today. He left just enough material on the face for each owner to easily file for the right tolerance in their pistol. Oh man these were perfect. I couldn't have expected Walther to have done any better. And that is a short summary of the history of correcting ejection direction with properly fitted extractors. Walther can't install an extractor with the tight tolerances of the custom ones above because the P22 is sold world wide and must fit all ammo rim thickness. This should provide you with enough history to illustrate the problem, the solution. M1911
Pictured below is the new VQ extractor. Nick at VQ sent me one for sending them the idea. Works pretty good too.
Just doesn't quite close the gap though. If it did it would function like the 1Dogfish model and ejection would be even better.
Re: Did Some P22 Homework Finally!
Just happened to have taken my breech block out of the slide today after about 15, 000 rounds. Someone wanted measurements of the firing pin. It needed a good cleaning anyway. Below is the cleaned up VQ extractor after about 15K rounds. Looks like it is holding up fine. M1911
Was pretty dirty.
Cleaned up nicely though.
Re: P22 extractor rework by 1917-1911M
Excellent Post !!
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