Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

My brother has a Springfield 1911 Night 45 and I love his gun. I really love the fact that it isn't a polymer framed gun and you can put real grips on it rather than some slip on version of a grip.

I want to start at around $400-$500 and do modifications a little at a time.

I have been looking at the Rock Island Armory guns. I have been reading reviews and looking at guns online the past few days. Most everyone has been agreeing that the RIA guns are good starter 1911s that modifications can be done to, but most are saying to go ahead and buy one of the tactical versions because it already comes with a few modifications without going through the money or time of doing it yourself. My problem is that I like hi-capacity guns so i am running into one very small snag (I was looking to get a FNP-45 but I didn't like the way the gun felt or looked...it took me months to find one in a gunstore, its impossible to really tell online).

First.. do I really need to be concerned about getting a hi-cap 1911 or do you expert 1911 guys think I don't need to worry about it.

Next.. there aren't too many comments on the hi-cap version and as far as I can tell it is a basic RIA 1911 just hi-cap.

Main thing.... I am not familiar with the 1911 platform so, I am not sure if buying the hi-cap version will limit my choices of modifications (grip size must be larger does that change any of the internals?) or am I still going to be able to choose from all the 1911 modifications? (which brings me to my biggest concern...can the front blade sight on the basic model be changed out easily or is it something that cannot be altered without major gunsmith work?)

Help me please focus my search a little better guys. As always thanks.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Your first 1911 should be a regular single-stack in my opinion. As for as that goes, I personally think hi-cap 1911s or 2011s are best used in the competition area. There will be a lot of parts for regular 1911s that will not work on a hi-cap.

As for your front sight, odds are that it's something that a gunsmith will need to address.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

most of the time you need to do some smith work on the sights, novak's are great and of course are everywhere.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

You can't go wrong with Springfield's' Mil Spec. It's got a few "upgrades" to JMBs' original GI version, but I think he'd approve. Better sights (he was pretty skimpy with his sights), opened and flared ejection port and a stainless barrel and barrel bushing. It's forged steel, made in the US, whereas the RIA is cast and made in the Philippines. Lifetime guarantee, excellent customer service and, most importantly, reliable. I prefer the military version of the 1911. I don't go for the skeletal triggers and hammers, and really don't care for beaver tails. They are a solution to a non problem. I want the pistol that fought in the trenches, hit the beaches, worked in the frozen wastes of Korea and the jungles of Viet Nam. It was good enough for our armed forces for 70 years. I put my life on it. Great gun as is and they have more fancy models if you're into that. Buy US. TJ

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I would suggest the Rock Island Armory guns, Citadel, the Springfield Mil-Spec...

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

The armscorp guns (rock island, STI spartan, etc...) are great starters. I also agree you would be best served by a single stack. It is the way JMB intended it and is the way it functions best. I used to have a HI CAP springfield and it felt like holding the wrong end of a baseball bat, not to mention it held 5 pounds of ammo, which makes one hell of a cumbersome carry gun.

Go single stack Rock island mil spec if you plan on doing all mods yourself, if you desire good sights right off the bat, get a rock island with a set of 3 dot dovetail sights. either of these pistols will run you about 5 bills. For a couple of hundred extra bucks though, you could get a springfield loaded and be hard pressed to find a part that needs upgrading, or an STI spartan and have a IPSC ready gun right out fo the box 'hot sights' and all, in 9mm or .45ACP...

Thats what I love about 1911s, the choices are endless...

I have a 1st run Taurus pt1911 that has over $500 worth of parts I have fitted to it. BTW, the Taurus PT1911s are great starters of the series 80 design. And I have a full custom built on an essex frame and slide from the ground up that I have over $1000 bucks in, I hand fit and finished the pistol myself, and it shoots the mighty .460 rowland.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I have a Rock Island 1911 that is listed as a Hi-cap. I think what they consider high capacity is a 10 round magazine sticking out of the grip. It came with the wrap around grips and that long magazine on the left, that is their Hi-Cap magazine. :D :D

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Don't get too cheap. You will only end up frustrated with something lacking reliability. You want reliability first and foremost followed by accuracy and the ability to fire all types of rounds, FMJ, SWC, etc. You want something that does this right out of the box without having to break it in by buying and shooting a case of expensive .45 ammo, or paying an expensive gunsmith to do all the things the factory should have done before they shipped the firearm to the dealer. My feeling is that after say 25,000 rounds you might want to have the gunsmith do a checkup and oil change, the easy stuff like routine cleaning you can do.

My recommendation is to get the "improved" Browning designed 1911 that the pros use.

The price is not that far out of line. It comes in various trigger styles, SA, DA, DA/SA, etc. It comes in different sizes if you want to carry it. It has a recoil reducing system that makes it very smooth to shoot. You can load 11 or 13 rounds using 10 and 12 round magazines.

It is an improved version of the original Browning 1911 linking system.

Because it is usually distributed only to the higher end high volume gunstores, and to various law enforcement departments and military agencies, it isn't as well known to many in the general public which is sad, IMHO. This pistol is very easy to field strip and clean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_USP

I like the fact that right out of the box mine went boom every time I pulled the trigger for as long as there were rounds in the magazine, and shooting all types of ammo. How many other 1911's can say that?



http://policelink.monster.com/produc.../232-hk-usp-45

But, what do I know?

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

" I like the fact that right out of the box mine went boom every time I pulled the trigger for as long as there were rounds in the magazine, and shooting all types of ammo. How many other 1911's can say that? "

I'll answer your question as to how many 1911's can go bang when you pull the trigger. All of mine do and always have. I don't know how anyone who completely understands the 1911 could have a problem with them. Most 1911 problems are mag related. Some lower priced 1911's come with cheap mags to save costs. I usually dump them for good mags, so, no problems.

If the OP wants a 1911, why would you suggest an H&K USP .45 as it's a completely different animal ?? :confused: :)

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I would recommend the American Classic models. The ones I have seen have a superior fit and finish compared to the Armscor guns I've owned in the past. The American
Classic guns are imported by the same company that imports Bersa guns, so they use any warranty centers that the Bersa guns use. Gives you more choices compared to having to send an Armscor gun back to only one place and have to worry about the language barrier involved. And I'm seeing more and more customer service complaints with Armscor. It seems that their infrastructure hasn't kept up with the sales of their guns and things are starting to fall through the cracks. Granted there are plenty of people who have been happy with their guns and the service, but my experience is that I will never own another Armscor 1911. Especially given the multiple other comparable choices in the same price range.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Olympus,
This is going to be my first handgun, and I want american made. Many of my friends, including a few ex-military ones, have said that the RIA Single Stack 45 ACP would be a good gun for me. You're the first person I've seen who had something derogatory to say about the Armscor 1911. I can't afford to spend alot of money on my first gun; so, if you don't like the Armscor 1911 which one do you suggest?

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Obviously I know the Armscor is made in the Philippines; so what's a good, inexpensive, starter 1911?

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Don't let the Philippines scare ya off the US has had a relationship with them for a long time. The Rock Island guns are well thought of I would get Tactical model but good luck seems like every one is out of them. I got lucky I got one coming should be here early next week. I went with the Tactical for the sights and the extended beaver tail and the skeletal trigger and hammer. Upgrades for only a few more bucks over the standard Gov model. Lots of folks like the Rock Island guns which is why I bought one good price and a lot of satisfied customers and good reviews.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Olympus I have done a thorough search and I find very few complaints on Rock Island guns and they have a life time warranty if something does go wrong. Which is why I just bought one. I am sure they have places in the US to send them to with out going to the factory for repair. Furthermore it is a 1911 just about anyone can strip them and put in aftermarket parts if you so desire.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Nothing at all wrong with the PI built 1911s. I've owned a number of them and they all ran well. There are differences in the fit & finish but for the most part they are all solid well built guns. The only PI gun I have at the moment is an American Classic Commander and it is put together extremely well and it looks & shoots great. I have Colts, Kimbers, and Springers also - I like 1911s regardless of who makes them...

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j.../IMG_ACC-X.jpg

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I've got a RIA tactical and it feeds everything. Fit on everything is great, I'm not too fond of the matte finish but after oiling it down a few times it lost that chalky look. Has a nice trigger pull too.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I know my Remington R1 is totally American made, here in Ilion, NY.

Great first 1911 (my first too).

I put some new grips on it from Woodnut.

My R1 cost me about $670. You can probably do better through DoubleD here on TFF.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

One of the most popular Rock Islands today is the Tactical models. You not gonna touch any other maker for the price that RIA are selling these for.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

But he wants an American made gun. And those ain't.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

American Made is a joke these days since there is a Global Market. Nice Sentimental Idea but many products that are made in the USA have parts made elsewhere so are they truly USA made not really. Buy the Union Label is a joke these days paying three times more that what a product is worth. I prefer to do my research and then buy getting the best product for the money. It is his choice to make just making the observation the RIA are good guns and they cannot keep them on the shelves that says something. I had to search all over to find one.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

I'm far from an expert but for four or five hundred you can find a used Springfield Mil Spec....or 575 from BUDS and that's for a new one. For the money you spend on a Springfield the frame and slide is forged and that alone is a plus in my book. Hi capacity 1911? I never heard of a 1911 with ten round magazine being referred to as a hi capacity 1911. Things companies will use as a selling point these days I guess.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Nowhere did he state he wanted American made. He specifically said he was looking at Rock Island.

jlloyd73, the front sight on the RIA G.I. model is staked and the tactical is dovetailed but it's not a standard dovetail. From what I understand Novak sights will fit with a little filing.

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Hawg he did say American Made up in his post at 9:22 but then he confused the issue and mentioned the RIA. So I can see where you might have missed that. My opinion you cannot go wrong with the RIA for the money for you guys that say Forged against Cast well remember Kimber which is a twice the money hand gun uses Aluminum in some of their frames. Now I am not knocking that either I have a Taurus 38 Model 85 that is a aluminum frame and it is a great CC gun.

I see nothing wrong with this:

. Armscor is a ISO 9001 certified-compliant company which manufactures Rock Island pistols using CNC (Computer Numerical Control) equipment.[5] RIA 1911 series pistols are constructed of 4140 chromoly steel with a cast frame, and are available in .45 ACP, .38 Super, 9mm Luger, and .22 TCM chamberings.

General specifications

The general specifications for Rock Island Armory 1911 pistols are:

Ordnance grade 4140 steel construction
100% part compatibility with US G.I.
Flat grooved steel mainspring housing
Calibers: .45 ACP, .38 Super, 9 mm Luger
Finishes: blued, Parkerized, nickel
Grooved trigger
Approx. 5¼ lbf (23 N) trigger pull
Non-checkered smooth wooden grips
Hard plastic clamshell storage case

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

The big difference between Rock Islands and other makes (such as Springer), is that the RIA uses cast frames & slides and some other makes are forged. Does this make a difference? Sure, but it depends on how you want to use the gun. If you intend to shoot it a lot or use it in competition, I'd probably go with a forged frame & slide. For the average user, the RIA (or other PI built gun) will be just fine...

Re: Starter 1911 at a reasonable price, RIA hi-cap?
 

Just my two cents here and I hope I do not offend anyone... I researched and researched and oh, did some more research before buying my 1911. The one thing you need to accept is that quality and reliability cost money. If you opt for a lower quality firearm, whatever you save on the front end, you will most definitely incur on the back. With that said, you must also accept the fact that 1911s can be somewhat finicky. Not finicky in the sense it doesn't want to work finicky but finicky in the sense of each 1911 will have its own personality.

I have read several posts and seen many youtube videos where people buy the less expensive, Asian manufactured 1911s and have then spent twice what they paid getting the gun to function how they want it to. It makes no sense to me to purchase a $400 Asian made Rock Island Armory or Norinco and then replace items like hammers and triggers with Ed Brown parts. It also makes very little sense to purchase that $400 standard 1911 and then go pay a gunsmith to throat the barrel, polish the feed ramp, and lower and flare the ejection port. My point is, you're paying premium prices to add items to a firearm that may or may not be made from quality parts or to exacting tolerances. It's like putting a $5,000 stereo system in a $1,000 beater of a car.

Instead of doing all of these after market upgrades, simply save your money a little longer and get it done professionally by the manufacturer. That way you have a single person (entity) to deal with should you have any issues. There are no warranty items to accidentally void.

Springfield Armory's pistols start around $600 if you can find a GI model which is like a standard 1911 as it would been issued. Stepping up to the "Mil-Spec" model will give you most of the custom items added for enhanced reliability. The Mil Spec goes for around $700. I am recommending Springfield Armory because I own two of their firearms and each has performed flawlessly. I have an XD and a "Loaded" 1911.

Other 1911s to consider may include those by Remington, Ruger, and S&W. Be patient with your purchase. Remember, half the fun of getting any new toy is the "wanting" and anticipation of getting it.