cointoss2

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1754
(2/2/02 5:05:32 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del All Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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OK - twice now I have had a long dialog typed on this subject, and my computer has frozen and dumped it. I will need to type shorter segments, and save it as I go.

The Eibar region had numerous small firearms firms prior to WWI. They had developed the Eibar pattern semi-auto in 32ACP (often identified as the 1914, 1915 or 1916 model) and pattented in Europe the Browning design. As WWI approached, the French government saw a need for more small arms, and contracted with Gabilondo y Cia to supply their "Ruby" pistol. As the need increased, the French government increased their order, and Gabilondo y Cia started subbing work to other manufacturers in the region.

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Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1755
(2/2/02 5:12:42 pm)
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Gabilondo y Cia (later to become Llama) subbed work to four other firms, including Esperanza y Unceta (later to become Astra). The French arsenals saw a need to differentiate the pistols, so letter coded the pistols on the left side of the slides (e.g., "EU" for Esperanza y Unceta). They also marked magazines on the base with these letter codes to match the pistols as there was enough variance that they were not all interchangeable. The French also proofed the pistols on the base of the grip with a star on each side of the mag well. Also, some of the pistols had knobs welded on the left side of the frame so the holster was pushed out away from contact to the safety lever when the pistol was holstered. It seems that numerous Frenchies shot themselves in the leg because they had their finger on the trigger when they holstered them, and the safety lever was brushed over to "fire".

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Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Edited by: Bob In St Louis at: 2/2/02 5:38:45 pm

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1756
(2/2/02 5:20:00 pm)
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As WWI progressed, the French government rapidly increased their orders for pistols. Before long, approximately 28 firms in the Eibar region were producing the pistols, and approximately 15 other firms were producing limited numbers or supplying parts and slides for the pistols. The quality of these pistols ranged from excellent (such as the "EU" pistols) to poorly made.

After WWI, the French surplused out a lot of these pistols. A lot of them were pakerized at this point, and a large number were sent to the Finns (dang Finns bought guns from nearly every other country in Europe!). Many of the Eibar region firms converted production over to copies of S&W and Colt revolvers for sale to the South and North American markets. Some firms continued to make the Eibar pattern pistol for commercial sales - such as Royal, Paramount, and some that were not marked as to manufacturer. Some firms just closed their doors, and others went to making bicycles or typewriters.

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Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1757
(2/2/02 5:26:17 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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Some of the Eibar pattern pistols in my collection:

Royal
Ruby (4)
Alkartasuna (6)
Liberty
Reistola Hermanos
Garate Anitua
Victor Berne
Eibar pattern, not marked to manuf. (2)
Paramount (4)
Stosel
Beistegui Hermanos (2)
M. Zulaica y Cia
Azanza y Arrizabalaga
Hijos de C. Arrizabalaga
Heco Arrizabalaga
Princeps
Esperanza y Unceta (3)

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Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

jeeper1
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 115
(2/2/02 5:27:49 pm)
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You can also add to your posting by using the edit function as well as the way you have been doing.
The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1758
(2/2/02 5:30:37 pm)
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I would have liked to go into a lot more deatil, but I was typing fast and furious, and saving quick as possible to avoid the dreaded freeze and computer dump. If you have any questions on markings, history, etc. - please ask. These are robust little pistols, and good shooters. Most of the poorer quality ones never made it into modern times, so most of the ones you find are still good shooters. I am always looking for other markings or manufacturers of these pistols, if anyone runs across them.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Boogalou
Member
Posts: 5
(2/2/02 7:14:04 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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Thanks for the info Bob. From what I understand, the reason Spanish pistols have gotten a bad rap over the years is because of the cheap Ruby's that were made for the French by those smalltime manufacturers that thought they could make a quick buck.

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1759
(2/2/02 7:39:31 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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Another factor that gave the Spanish made firearms a bad name was the revolvers made between WWI and WWII. The majority of the Spanish market was South America. The militaries and police forces in South America specified black powder load revolvers to be compatible with their older inventories - even though smokeless powder had been around for awhile. So, a lot of these revolvers were made for 32-20 and 38 S&W in blackpowder loadings. The manufacturing process allowed the usage of softer steels for the lighter loadings - why upgrade to new machining for old style production? In later years, as these Orbeas and other revolvers trickeled into the US, people fired them with modern loadings. After a short while, they quickly wore out and shook apart. Ipso facto - crappy Spanish stuff.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

walter in florida
Member
Posts: 1
(2/3/02 10:17:45 pm)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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To Bob in St Louis: I have a Le Basque Ruby pistol made by Eulogio Arestegui of Eibar. I plan to hold on to it because it only cost me 60.00. Also have a 32 20 revolver with GH trade make on the frame near the release could GH stand forGuisasola Hermanos? ( cost 50.00)

procrastinator
V.I.P. Member
Posts: 154
(2/3/02 10:46:05 pm)
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Welcome Walter. Where at in Florida?
Bob is the man when it comes to Spanish Steel!!
The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1769
(2/4/02 8:00:39 am)
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I am at work right now, and don't have my references handy. I will try to look it up tonight and get back to you. Most of the time when you have an "H" as the second letter, it is a Hermanos - lots of firms started by brothers.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

Bob In St Louis
Senior Chief Moderator Staff
Posts: 1772
(2/4/02 11:06:00 pm)
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The 32-20 revolver was likely made by Garate Hermanos in Ermua Spain - next door neighbor to Eibar region. Garate Hermanos was a major revolver producer in that region prior to WWI, particularly in the Velo Dog pattern. During WWI, they joined the rest of the firms of that region producing the Ruby style semi-auto. Subsequent to WWI, they returned to the revolver manufacture, particularly the S&W patterns in 32-20 and 38 S&W. They seem to fade into obscurity in the late 1920s. It would be a safe bet your revolver was made shortly after WWI, as the revolvers produced in the 1920s normally had "Garate Hermanos" in the legend on the top of the barrel, or on the left side of the frame. The revolvers manufactured right after WWI carried over the two letter coding practice (GH) up until 1920 or 1921.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

walter in florida
Member
Posts: 2
(2/5/02 12:35:35 am)
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Thank you Bob: The right side of the barrol says ano l924 Made in Spain. To those, what part of Florida do I live? I live about 20 miles northeast of Orlando in Seminole County. I do not have a FFL or C&R, so my collection is not too great. I was planning to sell off some of long guns but my daughter said don't. She hates guns, but she said that I enjoy them too much. Again thank Bob for the info.

gun runner john
Moderator
Posts: 442
(2/5/02 9:32:46 am)
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If you're going to collect more than a couple gun in a three year period, the C&R is a great investment! You also get trade discounts at a number of the large suppliers, Brownells and Midway to name two that you should recognize.


velvetnsteel
Member
Posts: 22
(2/7/02 10:01:40 pm)
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Bob, would the Star Model B like SOG has this month be an acceptable place for me to start my collection of these Spanish pistols? Thanks.

Bob In St Louis
*TFF Senior Staff*
Posts: 1804
(2/8/02 7:55:24 am)
Reply | Edit | Del Re: Spanish Ruby pattern semi-autos
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Yes, I noticed they have them on sale this month - I was thinking of ordering a couple of them myself if I can swing the cash.
Crusty Cruffler of Fine Spanish Pistols - Eibar Rules!

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