[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by belercous

The reason the Supreme Court has not given the right to own guns to the people is that, to date, the 2nd Amen. has always been held by the court to be a collective right of the people, a right given to each state. Like the 3rd Amen. Admittedly, the wording of the 2nd. Amen. could be clearer. If it were this would have been hashed out a long time ago. It seems the trouble with interpreting the 2nd Amen. as an individual right has to do with its preamble "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state.." Militias are not the same as me or you owning guns. Militias back then required certain responsibilities of their members, such as attendance at "musters." We have nothing like this in America today, but the Swiss model of militias are close to what our founders understanding of "militia" meant. The "security of a free state" part gives problems because it implies the right to own guns is granted for the benefit of the state, not individuals. The argument goes that if the Founding Fathers intended for individuals to own guns, they would have said so, but they didn't. They knew how to use words, they were the best, brightest and most edcuated people in America at that time.
"Bearing" arms meant, in 1789, carrying arms, as one would do at a militia muster. "Keeping" arms meant just that, keeping or owning them. The 2 words are not synonomous. The Founders (or so the prevailing wisdom of constituional scholars holds) did not put extraneous verbiage in the Constitution, every word has a meaning and no word is unneeded.

Maybe you need to do some more research about SCOTUS and the 2nd Amendment.

"Indeed, is not this so of acts done in the execution of any crime? Discharging a loaded pistol at a target is an innocent pastime; discharging a loaded pistol at a human being, with felonious intent, takes a quality from such intent and may constitute murder."

- Mr. Justice McKenna, Delivering the opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court, [HYDE v. U S, 225 U.S. 347 (1912), Page 225 U.S. 347, 360]

"If the Fifth Amendment confers its rights on all the world except Americans engaged in defending it, the same must be true of the companion civil-rights Amendments, for none of them is limited by its express terms, territorially or as to persons. Such a construction would mean that during military occupation irreconcilable enemy elements, guerrilla fighters, and "werewolves" could require the American Judiciary to assure them freedoms of speech, press, and assembly as in the First Amendment, right to bear arms as in the Second, security against "unreasonable" searches and seizures as in the Fourth, as well as rights to jury trial as in the Fifth and Sixth Amendments."

- MR. JUSTICE JACKSON, U.S. Supreme Court, [JOHNSON v. EISENTRAGER, 339 U.S. 763 (1950). Decided June 5, 1950. Page 339 U.S. 763, 784]

"The question, whether a law be void for its repugnancy to the constitution, is, at all times, a question of much delicacy, which ought seldom, if ever, to be decided in the affirmative in a doubtful case. The court, when impelled by duty to render such a judgment, would be unworthy of its station, could it be unmindful of the solemn obligations which that station imposes. But it is not on slight implication and vague conjecture that the legislature is to be pronounced to have transcended its powers, and its acts to be considered as void. The opposition between the constitution and the law should be such that the judge feels a clear and strong conviction of their incompatibility with each other.

- Chief Justice John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court, Fletcher V. Peck, [6 Cranch, 87.] 1810.

"Also, the conditions and circumstances of the period require a finding that while the stated purpose of the right to arms was to secure a well-regulated militia, the right to self-defense was assumed by the Framers."

- John Marshall, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice. [As quoted in Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243, 251 (1846); State v. Dawson, 272 N.C. 535, 159 S.E.2d 1, 9 (1968).]

"The Constitution and laws of the United States "are the supreme law of the land," anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary, notwithstanding." Their supremacy is thus declared in express terms: "Whatever conflicts therewith has no operative or obligatory force. Allegiance to the United States, and loyalty to the United States Constitution and laws, are the paramount duty of every citizen. Within their legitimate sphere, they command the obedience of all, and no State Constitution or statute can absolve any one therefrom....As it is both the right and duty of every citizen to become fully informed upon all governmental affairs, so as to discharge his many political obligations intelligently at the ballot-box, and in other legitimate ways; and the freedom of the press and of speech are guaranteed to him for that as well as other essential purposes; and as the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition for the redress of grievances, and to keep and bear arms, cannot be lawfully abridged or infringed...”

- CHARGE TO THE GRAND JURY BY THE COURT, United States Circuit Court, DISTRICT OF MISSOURI, SPECIAL JULY TERM, PRESENT: HON. JOHN CATRON, An Associate Justice of Supreme Court of United States. 1861. JULY 10, 1861.

Man, it looks like your "legal education" was spotty, at best.