.223 rem reloading question?

[socalfamous87]

can you seat the bullet deaper if the crimp was already made?i just wanna make sure before i attempt it i will be seating it .042 deaper for my ar that shoots .223 rem. thanks

[steve4102]

What kind of crimp?

Does the bullet have a cannelure?

What bullet?

What is your OAL now and what do you want it to be?

[muddober]

To answer your question in one word; yes. In several words you only have to seat the bullet so that the finished cartridge will barely fit in the magazine, crimping somewhere on a bullet other than the cannelure (crimp grove) will not hurt a thing.

Ron

[cpttango30]

NO you can't. If you try to seat after the crimp you will do one of two thing if not both.

1. You are going to destroy the bullet jacket.
2. You will crush the neck down.

Been there done that. I wouldn't do it.

[Edward Horton]

socalfamous87

cpttango30 is 100% correct and you will take a chance of doing damage to the case neck trying to seat the bullet deeper.

I would like to add if your neck tension is adequate a crimp isn't needed, I do not crimp my .223 ammunition. Many people believe crimping your bullets degrades the accuracy of your rifle.

[socalfamous87]

what if theirs NO cannelurer? @tango30.. i had a good feeling that it would happen

[cpttango30]

Doesn't matter on cannelurer or not. Remember 99% of .224" bullets are very thin jacketed bullets that are made to fragment on hitting the target. These are not heavy large game bullets ment to take on Elk, Bear, Moose or larger critters. I have had slightly damaged bullet fly apart in mid flight on me. I was loading 55gr Nosler BT bullets in my 220 swift and I took 5 shots went down to the 100 yard target and nothing not even speck on the paper. This gun was a shooter too I am talking about .25" groups at 100 yards. So my dad started watching and noticed that about 25 to 50 yards there was a puff of smoke. It was the bullet blowing up. Only think I could figure was that in loading I was pealing some of the jacket off the bullet on seating cause I didn't chamfer the case mouth. Because I had loaded some before that didn't do that and they were fine printer excellent groups.

you might be ok with something like military bullets.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by socalfamous87

what if theirs NO cannelurer? @tango30.. i had a good feeling that it would happen

What type of crimp?

[cpttango30]

In talking to RCBS and Hornady reps. All rifle dies have a slight roll crimp built into them.

Taper crimping is only for semi-auto pistol rounds.

[muddober]

Originally Posted by muddober

To answer your question in one word; yes. In several words you only have to seat the bullet so that the finished cartridge will barely fit in the magazine, crimping somewhere on a bullet other than the cannelure (crimp grove) will not hurt a thing.

Ron

OOPS, I obviously misunderstood the question. I was NOT thinking a loaded cartridge that was already crimped, but rather can you crimp on a bullet some place other than the cannelure.

There is no way to reseat a bullet that has been crimped into place that I know of.

Ron

[Bindernut]

socal,
Refer back to your previous thread about the crunched cases that came from the mis-adjusted seater die.
If you've crimped your bullets in the neck at all, they will likely collapse the shoulder like those you pictured earlier if you try to seat the bullets further.

Are the rounds too long to cycle through your AR action/mags, or are they stuffing the bullet into the rifling?

[10 Spot Terminator]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

In talking to RCBS and Hornady reps. All rifle dies have a slight roll crimp built into them.

Taper crimping is only for semi-auto pistol rounds.

This is the first I have heard of a roll crimp in rifle dies . As it is not adjustable as in pistol dies I am not understanding how this works. A slight bevel in a pistol die has to be adjusted to contact the rim of the case during the last couple thosandths ot the total travel on the bullet seating operation to work. As rifle bullet seating is all over the place due to the bullets being seated by the ogive rather than the bullet nose in a pistol , at what point does it roll the neck ? All I have read states rifle cartridges have no crimp but tension is controlled by the inside diameter of the necks when sized and that to alter this requires changing of the expander ball diameter in the sizing die. You can add a crimp such as Lee offers in its factory crimp die but it is not a true roll crimp design either but a multi point adjustable pinch style on the case neck done in a seperate operation after bullet seating. As for taper crimp dies they are available although not common for several rifle cartriges designed to feed in semi and full auto rifles with detachable box magazines and lever guns with tube magazines as well to promote mininimal bullet runout and better ammo feeding to the firearm. If there is a resource to get info as to the rifle roll crimp I would be grateful if you would point me in the right direction as I am always looking for more food for thought when it comes to reloading. I strive to build the best loads I can with the help of those like yourselves who can teach me how .

10 Spot

[Bindernut]

Originally Posted by 10 Spot Terminator

This is the first I have heard of a roll crimp in rifle dies . As it is not adjustable as in pistol dies I am not understanding how this works. A slight bevel in a pistol die has to be adjusted to contact the rim of the case during the last couple thosandths ot the total travel on the bullet seating operation to work. As rifle bullet seating is all over the place due to the bullets being seated by the ogive rather than the bullet nose in a pistol , at what point does it roll the neck ? All I have read states rifle cartridges have no crimp but tension is controlled by the inside diameter of the necks when sized and that to alter this requires changing of the expander ball diameter in the sizing die. You can add a crimp such as Lee offers in its factory crimp die but it is not a true roll crimp design either but a multi point adjustable pinch style on the case neck done in a seperate operation after bullet seating. As for taper crimp dies they are available although not common for several rifle cartriges designed to feed in semi and full auto rifles with detachable box magazines and lever guns with tube magazines as well to promote mininimal bullet runout and better ammo feeding to the firearm. If there is a resource to get info as to the rifle roll crimp I would be grateful if you would point me in the right direction as I am always looking for more food for thought when it comes to reloading. I strive to build the best loads I can with the help of those like yourselves who can teach me how .

10 Spot

10Spot,
Pull out any of your reloading manuals and double-check the bullet seating instructions for bottleneck rifle cartridges. Or check the instruction sheets for any set of dies that you've got on the shelf.
Here's a PDF of the RCBS instructions. http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instru...structions.pdf
Every brand of bottleneck cartridge seating dies that I've dealt with have a built in roll-crimper shoulder at the top of the seater die. The adjustment procedure is basically the same as it is for a roll crimp on a straight-walled case or the taper crimp on a straight-wall case.
Basically...
If you're not crimping, you don't thread the die down fully touching the case and then adjust your bullet seating depth using the seater plug screw.
If you want a roll crimp, thread the die into the press just as you would for no crimp and seat a bullet to your desired COAL. next step, back off the seater plug a couple turns and run the cartridge back into the die and thread the die down until you feel the case mouth contacting the inside of the die. Thread the die in just a bit further and appl your crimp...adjust a bit as needed to get however heavy of a crimp that you need. Tighten the lock ring. Run the seated and crimped cartridge up into the die again and adjust your bullet seater plug down until it's touching the bullet. That is the basic setup procedure...make minor tweaks to either the die position or the seater plug position as needed to get the bullet seated and crimped in one pass.