Kahr CS not very good

[larrydickman]

Just a note to anyone who is thinking about buying a Kahr. I purchased a CW9 that was made about three months ago new from buds guns. The problem is not with BGs but with Kahr.
I took the gun to the range and every other shot the mag fell out and it was not me hitting the MR. I called Kahr and they did send an all metal one to replace the plastic one. I refitted it and that seemed to take care of the problem as it did not happen again, but I then took the CW to the range a third time and the recoil spring broke. I called Kahr and was told I would have to send it back to Kahr on my dime. So to put it in simple terms I had to pay 20 dollars to send the gun back wait 6 weeks for them to look at it for a 2 dollar their cost 8 dollar my cost RS.

Now I will contrast that with two other problems I have just had this week, One of my Smith and Wesson M&P mags was not working correctly and was over stripping the round. I called Smith and they did not even want a serial number, they just said, whats your address and one is on its way. WOW thats service :shock:

The second example of great CS is Glock. I have a 19 2nd gen from about 95 that I purchased new, put it in my safe and have not even broken it in. My brother called me and said he was getting two Glocks and that he had been reading that the guide rods made of plastic seems to be a problem to some owners. I then went to the safe and checked my GR and it was missing about half the round plastic circle that holds the spring on in the rear and fits into the grove of the lug on the bbl. I called Glock and said its and old gun but I really have not shot it, they did not care it was what is the serial no, and one is on its way hope this fixes the problem.

Contrast this CS at Smith and Glock with that of Kahr. I called a third time to Kahr to see if I could get a different agent as maybe this guy with a heavy English accent was just having a bad life. I got him every time and asked why he always answered the phone. He said he was one of two techs for all of Kahr. Well that answers that question. Next I told him I was shooting RAM ammo and was told to stop right there that any reloads void Kahrs warranty. I asked him if it would work for Kahr if I bought two and used them as book ends, if that would keep the warranty alive and well. LOL.

Kahr seems to be loosing their edge as this great company that pays attention to detail and makes a great gun to one that has horrible to non existent CS and guns with problems. To give full disclosure I did have a previous problem with the CW, and Kahr did send me a replacement mag catch all metal that took care of it or at lasted seemed to as I did not get to shoot as much to test it out before the spring broke. But they also have had a lot of problems with this as far as I can read on line although they will most likely not admit it.

So if you are looking for a Kahr, you may want to consider something else. As for me I am going to replace the spring with a wolf spring from midway and then sell it and buy a M&P c or G26, which I should have done in the first place.

PS, I don't have photos of the Kahr spring. I disassembled it at the range and threw it in the garbage bbl. I know I should have kept it, but who would have though that Kahr would have reneged on their product over a 2 dollar part?

[Hammerslagger]

My experiences with Kahr Arms were initially very good; then, suddenly, turned very bad. See the link to TFF thread from 2008, below.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...+cracked+slide

Simply stated: A friend has a Kahr MK9 with an identical defect discussed in the above referenced thread; and Kahr HAS REFUSED TO CORRECT IT without being paid to do so to the tune of well over $150.00.

I am personally aware of three Kahr MK9's with the cracked slide defect. Thus, I infer that there are likely many more. I remember a conversation, more than 6 years ago, in which a very helpful Kahr customer service representative made mention of them having had problems with a contract "heat treat" shop's work.

I have personally done everything but send a certified letter to Kahr's CEO (Kook Jin "Justin" Moon) and ask if they have ever heard of the Jennings/Bryco $30 million plus lawsuit verdict for injuries caused by a firearm that a jury decided was defective in spite of credible evidence to the contrary.

By comparison, (within the last 4 years, when, now retired, Ron Borgio was head of S&W Quality Control) I witnessed S&W replace a broken but defective safety on a 30+ year old former PD M39 and change out several other parts for free. During the past few years, I have witnessed Glock, Ruger, and other US makers repair or replace firearms that were broken but not defective in design or materials, just to keep customers happy.

Kahr also owns (or leases from Gun Parts Corp.) the "Auto Ordinance" name. I have seen several of their 1911 A1 pistols that were not right.

I try to speak well of all in the "gun business". I even point out that George Jennings was such a good gun designer that Uziel "Uzi" Gal purchased a "Raven" to study its design. Kahr is capable of making good products, and many Kahr products that I have tested, performed well. In my opinion, it is unfortunate that Kahr chooses not to stand behind their admittedly defective products as other manufacturers do.

[larrydickman]

Hammer, this is exactly what I feel. I would have given them the bennifit of the doubt if they would have said just give us your address and a 2 dollar spring is on its way. But no they had to make me jump through hoops to get a repair done on a two month old gun. Then tell me that RAM ammo voids the warrentee. I have a replacment spring and put it in the gun today from a local shop. Its up for sale and I have a call on it for this week end. If it goes I am getting a Glock 26 and will not look back. Kahr has its head where its shorts should be on CS. Posts like this do stop others from purchasing a Kahr. Glock has exclent CS as does Smith. I even had a problem with a colt mag and although CS did nothing a rep on a forum saw my post and sent me 4 yes four 1911 ss mags to fix the one I had a problem with and a 100 years of service pin. I can not get past this one guy of two who handle CS for Kahr. Its a joke of company and I will not be crossing their palms with any of my green from here on out. They are dead to me and I will tell anyone who will listen.

[Hammerslagger]

I do not doubt any of the claims that you make. Did they tell you why shooting RAM brand of re-manufactured ammo voided their warranty?

Many firearms manufacturer's warn against shooting "reloaded" ammo for good reasons. There are legal differences between home or hobby "reloaded" ammo, and "re-manufactured" ammo done by a FFL ammo manufacturer. As one such re-manufacturer, once pointed out. the only difference between ammo loaded in virgin brass and that loaded in once fired brass is that the once fired brass has been proof tested, and proven defect free, by firing. Such re-manufacturered ammo is, therefore, slightly safer than ammo loaded in virgin brass. The U S Army's Frankford Arsenal re-manufactured millions of round of ammo prior to WW II.

Hopefully, others with bad Kahr experiences will add to this thread. I am more interested in getting Kahr to act in a businesslike and responsible manner that to just criticize them.

[larrydickman]

Believe me I tried to get them to just send a spring and be done with it. Called three times and was shot down each time. As far as the reloads go they did not go into detail, the rep just said that if I shoot reloads of any kind they would not take care of any problems with the gun. Now that said I can understand if I reload and made a mistake and the gun ruptured due to excessive pressure and they did not want to back it up, but when the gun has a problem not related to ammo and they void the warranty they just plain and simple do not want to cover the gun.

When I called Glock and asked them about the guid rod, and what they thought of a lone wolf ss replacment, they just said that the only thing was if the replacment part did any damage and it was not a glock part that did the damage they would not cover it. Thats totaly fair. But to say if you replace a guide rod and your mag fails we wont cover it would be much like what Kahr is saying.

[Helix_FR]

Something is wrong with their hardness of their steels they use and harden. Their parts are brittle. Broken trigger bars, broken triggers and broken slide stops are common. Not something that is usually a problem with other manufactures. I did a stress test on a broken trigger bar. It didnt bend at all, it snapped.

[larrydickman]

The thing that really makes me want to sell is that the CS rep said my warranty was void because I shot a few RAM loads, Factory reloads. I have never had a company go to this length to try to not service a product. They go from lifetime to five years and now put in disqualifies to get out of servicing their product. Its crazy. I called them three times and got the same rear end CS rep with a heavy British accent that seemed to live to not help.

I would stay away from Kahr in future as you can not depend on them to do what is right.

[JLA]

No problem here. I thought they looked like pieces of crap from the get go.. So i never bothered with them.

I do like thier magazine adds tho. especially the one with the asian chick.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by JLA

No problem here. I thought they looked like pieces of crap from the get go.. So i never bothered with them.

I do like thier magazine adds tho. especially the one with the asian chick.

I got a Kahr CW 45 awhile back. So far it functions fine. No FTF or FTE's ..45 ACP in a gun that light naturally kicks a bit more. We'll see how long it lasts.

You're right though, they do look like cheap air pistols..the sights are plastic..eek.

[Inthewind1976]

I am very thankful that I read this thread - I have considered the Kahrs for a while and now I will steer clear, but.........ALSO...........I have an Auto Ord 1911 from WAY back and would have purchased another if the opportunity should arise - now I will make sure that if I DO, its and OLD one, like my current one, and not one that came from Kahr manufacturing.

[Hammerslagger]

The Gun Parts Corp (Numrich) Auto Ordinance 1911 A1's were nothing to brag about quality wise; but they work, are not horrible quality, and can be made to shoot as well as guns costing more than twice as much with a Wilson "drop in" semi-match bushing and a Wilson marketed "Dwyer Group Gripper" for the rear of the barrel. These parts are usually under a $100.00.

[Jayhawk9x19]

I am in the process of going through Kahr CS now. I have a PM40 and have been having follower issues. The follower on my 6 round magazine broke, and it is the mag I hardly use. I sent an e-mail to Kahr with some pictures and the representative, Ian I believe, sent me out a replacement follower. Great, got it quickly and at no cost. So I replace it and took it out shooting yesterday. Within 60 rounds, the new follower has broken.

I had read that some people were having similar issues with the PM40, I believe it has something to do with the follower smacking the feed ramp. Unfortunately, that seems to be my problem. It is very upsetting that a gun I spent so much money on suffers from a problem like this.

I sent back an e-mail to Ian asking what the next step is to fix the problem, since the new follower seems like a band-aid fix. Just waiting to hear back from him. So I will try to update how that experience went.

I can tell you, in hindsight, I wish I had just gone with the Glock 26, would have saved $300 and know I would be able to trust it.

[Redbeard]

Interesting info. I will keep closer eye on it for any issues.

I just picked up a CW45 because of the price and shootability. I was waffling between a Glock 36 or the Kahr. I've got about 250 rounds through it. I had one FTF in the first 12 rounds. Been rock solid since. Shoots well. I can hold 3-4 inch groups at 10 yards with it. More than adequate for a carry piece.

[Bigbill]

I purchased a CZ85DB a few years back and its been flawless.

[larrydickman]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk9x19

I am in the process of going through Kahr CS now. I have a PM40 and have been having follower issues. The follower on my 6 round magazine broke, and it is the mag I hardly use. I sent an e-mail to Kahr with some pictures and the representative, Ian I believe, sent me out a replacement follower. Great, got it quickly and at no cost. So I replace it and took it out shooting yesterday. Within 60 rounds, the new follower has broken.

I had read that some people were having similar issues with the PM40, I believe it has something to do with the follower smacking the feed ramp. Unfortunately, that seems to be my problem. It is very upsetting that a gun I spent so much money on suffers from a problem like this.

I sent back an e-mail to Ian asking what the next step is to fix the problem, since the new follower seems like a band-aid fix. Just waiting to hear back from him. So I will try to update how that experience went.

I can tell you, in hindsight, I wish I had just gone with the Glock 26, would have saved $300 and know I would be able to trust it.

After selling my POS Kahr I bought a G26. I actually made 50 dollars on the Kahr because of the difference buds guns is and how much dealers ask around here. It cost me about 65 dollars more for the Glock and I have not had any problems with it. The problems with FT feeds were all because I was useing my hand loads I dropped a grain off of. The Glock is a short stout action and it takes just a bit more to operate than my M&P. When I upped the grain back into the load it works just fine. I have since put front and rear hi viz sights, I love those things, and I ordered the Ghost trigger for it. The trigger is already fine but this should drop it a half a pound or so and make it that much nicer. The Glock is a bit thicker than the Kahr but I put the pinkie extension on the Glock and it now holds 12 rounds and fits my hand like a glove. The Kahr had very sharp serrations and I had to use a Houge sleeve to stop from digging into my hand. Over all I was not very impressed with the quality of the Kahr, but if it worked like I hoped it would, It would have been fine.

I could have just kept the gun after replacing the spring, but my thoughts are if they will not stand behind the gun when its a 4 dollar spring, then what chance do I have it the frame cracks? And when they jump at any chance to tell you your warranty is void, I am done with that company. No more Kahrs for me, from now on its Cars and CandyO

[Jayhawk9x19]

PM40 has been sent to Kahr, free of charge for me. They estimated 2-3 weeks turnover time, we'll see how long it actually takes, it arrived at their factory today.

[larrydickman]

UPDATE. I just received a call from the former head of CS at Kahr, He now is a consultant to Kahr. After telling him the situation, he said it should have never happened and that Kahr wanted to make it right. I said I sold my Kahr and bought a Glock. I told him that it was not that the problems I had with the gun itself was not my worry but that Kahr would not stand behind the gun if I had some real issue. That a 2 dollar spring that they would not take care of made me very nervous and that I was told my warranty was void for using reloads. He told me this was unacceptable and wanted to know if they gave me a very good deal on a new CW9 would I come back to Kahr.

I said I would and Kahr is supposed to call me tomorrow with the price and set up the purchase. We will see what a "good price" is. I hope its a deal I can't turn down as I really did like the gun. I will keep you all posted and also on the other forums I posted on to let everyone know how Kahr handled this situation.

I had the extra mag and a Houge sleeve with it as the only gripe I really had with the gun itself was the sharp ridges on the front and back strap. The Houge took care of this. I am posting here because I got an email update that a new post had come thorugh and thought I would write a quick update.

I will up date what happens in the next week or so when it all settles out. I really hope this is a situation where it was a rogue CS rep who was not taking care of customers. I have nothing personal against Kahr and bought the CW because of the good things I had heard.

[Hammerslagger]

I wonder if someone at Kahr is reading posts at TFF?

[larrydickman]

Not sure, but I did complain to the BBB and that may have made my complaint go past Eian the CS rep to someone who is more in tune to how to take care of their customer base. Its not done yet, but from the phone conversation it seems to be heading in the right direction.

[Hammerslagger]

I wish you the best of luck.

[larrydickman]

UPDATE, I talked with the head of CS at Kahr today and the "great" price I was offered was 359. I told him that was a bit shocking since I can buy it from Buds Guns for 369 and free shipping and I paid 359 for the one I sold. He offered to throw in nights sights and I said if they can go 325 and the NS I may do it. We will see. I am still not very impressed with all the trouble that Kahr has caused me.

[Hammerslagger]

Wrong me once, shame on you.
You will not likely get a chance to wrong me twice.

The G26 is a good pistol. Its a little thicker than the Kahr, but that really is not significant.

Glock's customer service is almost unbelievably good. I have seen them take care of problems that were definitely not related to a product defect, just to help maintain their well earned reputation for exceptional customer service.

[Helix_FR]

That unbelievable price from Kahr is not that unbelieveable and their recent attitude does not suprise me either. Their taking that road that sig took with the big ego and are starting to tick off a lot of people. 359 for a polymer gun and a simple action such as theirs is a rip IMO.

[larrydickman]

I got the last call today from Kahr, 284 shipped to my FFl so all in 305. I don't think thats a give away but its not a bad price for the CW9. They sell for 369 from Buds and after transfer its about 400 or more and if you buy one locally its more with tax. If it does not stand up I can sell it and make a couple of dollars for my trouble.

[RunningOnMT]

That's a fair deal Larry and probably as good as you could expect from a gun maker. It's not likely to bankrupt Kahr and is justified compensation for your trouble.

I would suggest you don't even shoot it..keep it unfired and maybe even see if your dealer might take it in trade for something you'd really like to own. I know I'm unloading my CW45 at the first opportunity. As I said before, so far it's been ok, but as Helix has aptly pointed out, Kahr has an exagerated opinion of the value of their products.