Any Thoughts on Training?

[whatugawkinat]

I've been wanting to get my CCW permit for a while now and as soon as I get the time and money I will. As a firearm owner and lover I feel it should be a requirement for anyone wanting a CCW permit to be able to handle not only their firearm, but any situation that happens to come about. Point in question:

Is there any civilian training program that specializes in CQC, situational awareness, tactics and the overall mental aspects of dealing with a potential threat?

In other words, as a handgun owner and soon to be CCW permit holder I feel I have a duty to be able to protect myself, my family and my fellow citizens correctly without doing more harm than good. If people feel safe knowing a law enforcement officer carrying a handgun can can handle their situations professionally, then maybe more people would support more firearm owners and permit carriers if they could all do the same.

Any thoughts, input and guidance will be appreciated.

[jack404]

Well i'd say you have the right idea , training cant be beaten except for practice practice practice , but you'd need someone a bit more local to advise who

good luck !

[whatugawkinat]

Any idea on who to contact? Local law enforcement, NRA...I have no clue.

[jack404]

NRA would be a good start

Pat Goodale if you can find him

he's in Alderson, WV or was , its been a while

he ran a school that had the FBI visit regular

smart man good instructor ,

[jack404]

just done a search and up he popped straight away

http://www.pgpft.com/Instructors/

and if you do attend tell him the Jack the Aussie said G'day

[Iron Eagle]

What, frontsight in Nevada trains people to do what you are wondering about. Since I have worked in armed security at a nuclear plant- and we ran scenarios with metro police- maybe I can help you. You should be just as good shooting with your weak hand as your strong hand. When you can score well shooting right/left/both hands, you are pretty well set.
Jack is right- the NRA is a great place to start. Anywhere that you can receive training is good. Do you know any police, especially swat members? What about older vets?

[Hammerslagger]

Relative to post #1, there are a number of private training schools that can be located by typing in interrogatory phrases like "defensive firearms training" from any major search engine like Google or Yahoo.

Here is a direct link to one of the larger, better known schools; http://www.frontsight.com/
If you give them your email addresss you will be deluged with offers and free videos.

None of the foregoing is any kind of recommendation to spend any money with any school. I have never had any association with any of them. I do opine that some of FrontSight's free material is worth watching and reading, and some of it is not well advised or realistic.

If you search the Internet (including YouTube) you can find lots of information about the things that you inquired about. Again, some of what you will find is accurate and useful, and some of it will be useless, wishful thinking, Bull Excrement that has been written by persons who have no actual experiences relative to conducting oneself in emergency situations that fall into the violent attack categories.

Hope this sets your feet on the winding path to the knowledge that you seek.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by whatugawkinat

I've been wanting to get my CCW permit for a while now and as soon as I get the time and money I will. As a firearm owner and lover I feel it should be a requirement for anyone wanting a CCW permit to be able to handle not only their firearm, but any situation that happens to come about. Point in question:

Is there any civilian training program that specializes in CQC, situational awareness, tactics and the overall mental aspects of dealing with a potential threat?

In other words, as a handgun owner and soon to be CCW permit holder I feel I have a duty to be able to protect myself, my family and my fellow citizens correctly without doing more harm than good. If people feel safe knowing a law enforcement officer carrying a handgun can can handle their situations professionally, then maybe more people would support more firearm owners and permit carriers if they could all do the same.

Any thoughts, input and guidance will be appreciated.

Take a class at Gunsite or Travis Hayley's school. I would avoid James Yeager.

[Country101]

Iron Eagle, you work down at Waterford, or a differant nuclear plant? I'm in Arkansas at ANO.

[wv hillbilly]

here we have a sheriff deputy and a conservation officer that teaches classes

[Appliancedude]

Id recommend calling your favorite local gun shop and asking them if there is something local

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by whatugawkinat

I feel it should be a requirement

Someone else who wants MORE rules, MORE laws?

What happened to
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
?

[Blackshirts]

Originally Posted by whatugawkinat

I've been wanting to get my CCW permit for a while now and as soon as I get the time and money I will.

AZ is great. I just took the 1 hour classroom only class. Class plus the cost of the permit, $108. Since concealed carry was made legal without a permit the CCW classes have issued shorter classroom only classes for those who already know what they are doing with a firearm. They just cover the laws and you are good to go. They even have a 30 minute conference call "class" that a lot of out of staters take. The permit is valid in 36 other states but FL, SC, OH, MI, CO require you to be a resident of AZ. West Virginia honors it.

[whatugawkinat]

Of all the seemingly useless laws and regulations regarding firearm ownership and usage, I agree. But adding one important and useful regulation shouldn't be an issue, and might help erase the many useless ones. Having a CCW permit means you want to carry your firearm ultimately for protection. But more so than that, carrying a firearm holds an important place in society. You wouldn't want an entry level surgeon doing a heart transplant on you would you? Anyone wanting to carry has to carry the weight of protecting those around him, and an unskilled and unprofessional gunman wouldn't set your heart at ease. All I'm saying is that the more CCW permit holders who can professionally get the job done when the time arises (hopefully it does not), the better. Sorry if I come out as an asshole, but just because we have the right to own a gun, does not mean everyone knows how to use them to their full extent and purpose.

[BETH]

you're right what in ct. u have to take classes to get a permit and i am glad i did. I also asked a million questions on this forum and everyone has helped me and i also practice a lot. when i first started shooting one day went to clean pistol and there was a round in the chamber freaked me out and it will NEVER happen again, anyone i bring to the range i tell them about that so they can be aware. Firearms are big responsibiltiy

[whatugawkinat]

100% agreed. The folks on this site are wonderful, full of knowledge , experience and guidance. Not to mention patient enough to deal with the less knowledgeable and experienced :P

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by whatugawkinat

Sorry if I come out as an asshole

I don't see where anyone said that.

I am saying that there are gun owners who actually believe in this countries Constitution and Bill of Rights, which does give us the right to keep and bear arms. Then there are other gun owners that believe in "reasonable" GUN CONTROL. You can guess which category I fall into?

Who's definition of "reasonable" are we supposed to allow to be shoved down our throats? Mine, yours, a government official? Which government official? When does it stop being "reasonable"? Who decides?

As for training, there doesn't seem to be a problem with EVERYONE who is legal to own a firearm, being allowed to carry it concealed WITHOUT ANY (government issued) PERMIT in states like Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, and now Wyoming. Or in the multitude of states that allow OPEN carry. No blood running in the streets, as predicted by some.

You are new here whatugawkinat, and I am not calling you names, and don't want to run you off. But I would hope that you would realize that when coming onto a gun forum, and shouting for MORE unconstitutional gun control. While there are those who would agree with you, there are others that will have a different opinion, based on this countries founding documents.

[Buckshot]

Though I don't support advanced training as a strict requirement for CCW permits, there is no question it can have immense benefit should you choose to seek it.

+1 for Gunsite. Also look into Clint Smith's Thunder Ranch in Oregon and Massad Ayoob's Defense Associates in Connecticut.

If you have the money and the time/means to travel, there are a lot of great schools.

[pickenup]

To make it clear where I am coming from.

I DO advocate training. I have been through multiple classes VOLUNTARILY. I believe it is a HUGH responsibility for any person who decides to carry a firearm.

Personally I shoot competition. I'm too old and slow to win much, but I want to keep myself competent enough to hit what I aim at. I think that is part of MY responsibility, because I have chosen to carry a firearm, as it should be everyone's that chooses to carry.

I have shot some courses that police are required to pass, to stay qualified to carry their sidearm. While some are GREAT, and most officers do OK, frankly it scares me to know how "some" of the police officers shoot. Shooting a firearm is NOT their forte. And this is a requirement for their continued employment???

So, like I said, I do SUPPORT training, but I can not, and will not support any further infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. No matter how "well intentioned" it is.

[carver]

You have made a really smart decision, stick with it, get that training! It just might make the difference!

http://www.pgpft.com/Firearms-Traini...ia/Directions/

http://practicalfirearmstraining.com...West-Virginia/

http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

[soundguy]

i've seen add on tv ( late night ) and in mags for civ training of self defense tactics.. even pseudo swat style training.. usually is spendy and is a multi day course with real range and live fire and building entering / egressing techniques.. etc.. bad guy take down.. stealth.. etc.. tactical equipment usage.. like baton and flashlight.. etc.. etc..

[whatugawkinat]

Originally Posted by wv hillbilly

here we have a sheriff deputy and a conservation officer that teaches classes

Where is WV are you located? I'm in North Central. Would be nice to get a recommendation for a local official.

[whatugawkinat]

@pickenup, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was trying to make a statement on the importance of more skilled and capable carriers. It seems as if that's the main reason more people don't support gun ownership and carrying. They feel that most owners are incompetent fools who brandish the power of a weapon for their own egos. Thus the reason I stressed an idea that could possibly change the mindset of a lot of those who put our right at risk. Again, I didn't mean to sort you into the "careless" category, I love to ramble and debate my opinions :P. You're input is fantastic as well as the input from countless others on this site.

[UncleFudd]

Whatugawkinat, pickenup, Jack, hammer etal,
As stated, practice, training and then more practice and more training. This or these are criteria inherent with the acceptance of the CCW permit or even just responsible gun ownership.
If I could make a mandatory requirement without adding another worthless law or rule it would have to do with training and practice and study of actual threats and attacks as well as the responses that were successful whether they were LEO or civilian. (Not wise nor effective IMHO to spend one minute studying the responses of those who perished in their attempts to fend off their attackers).

As a young man with aspirations of becoming an LEO following in the respected, footsteps of my father who was and now a retired officer, I was encouraged and actually prodded to investigate and participate in self defense and or other means of survival training.
As a result, over the past 50 plus years I have done everything that I can or could to prepare myself to respond as necessary to specific threats directed at myself or my immediate family. Needless to say, I believe it was exciting, as well as educational and I enjoyed every minute all these years and continue even now to do so.

I believe it is a result of some or all of this awareness, training, practice and instructing that I was able to survive a violent, unsuspected, attack many years ago. I may never know, but I am still here, alive and well with the memory of that horrific event and that has always been and will continue to be further encouragement to do exactly today as you are doing now or beginning to do as of this posting.
I truly hope it will help you as it has me and many others whether or not they even recognize it, to establish your "mindset".
For me, it has been and remains steadfast and unequivocal: I will never quit, I will not fail and I will not allow you to take my life, period, ever. I will if you make me do so, fight you with every fiber of my being and you will never, ever defeat me.

So again, with that specific success, my mindset, along with the testimonies of others who have also walked away from the "elephant" there is no substitute for "quality" training and "quality" practice along with the same studies relevant to what why and how to respond when the "flag goes up" and in the face of the most terrifying event that can happen to a human being.
NOTHING else will or can possibly compare, ever. It is the ultimate terror.

Whatugawkinat, keep asking the questions, find the quality courses and instructors and learn the best subjects to study to help you to become the best that you can be as a responsible gun owner and ccw holder when the time comes.

My efforts lead me to become the best that I can be and not only for me and my family but as a result, to become the best instructor that my students such as yourself could possibly find and seek out for that same quality information whether it was basic, introduction to a firearm, (pistol, rifle or shotgun), lights, batons, pepper spray or taser, (electronic deterrent). Remember, not everyone is born with a gun in hand nor do many of them encounter a firearm in any form especially for possible use in self defense until they seek out person or persons to provide such introduction and basic training. I have personally, always felt my basic intro is or was perhaps as important as any of the more advanced training courses that I have provided to LEO or civilian over the past 35 years.
Many of my students never felt the need to go further or beyond a basic understanding or working, knowledge of the firearm in question and I made absolutely certain they had everything that I could give them at the time and with the time they afforded me to spend with them. "I have kept many critiques from my students which also helped me understand their confidence and satisfaction with my presentations at every level".

Others have given you good beginning info to find such instruction(s). Take your time and read again the good advice these guys have provided and find yourself instructor(s) and institution(s) that will provide you with nothing but the best for your level at the time. I am sure others here have had some of the same experiences that I have encountered even with the best background investigation and recommendations, when you get to class and the instructor wants to impress everyone with his/her "war stories". These have also been the ones who will be above answering or helping the beginners or new people or the timid or unsure who really want and need the help but will be terribly and unnecessarily neglected during the course in favor of his testosterone filled hangers-on. Women in particular have been the recipient of this neglect all to often in my experience and it is they who always seem to ask the best questions and try the hardest to do exactly what they are told and I have visited with countless instructors (quality) instructors who agree with that assessment.

I have had the extreme pleasure of attending courses and at one time or another co-instructing with some of the very best in our profession (gun owners, gunsmiths, instructors, institutions, and fellow CCW holders and I continue at my age to attend more courses and practice almost daily including handling of my specific CCW firearm, flashlight, baton spray and running 300 to 500 rounds per week with either or both hands, sitting, standing, falling down, laying down and getting up, night shoot, and day shoot just to stay tuned up to the best of my ability.

Some of my courses, institutions and instructors and the reason I mention them is because so many of them are still operational and are among if not the best in the country.
Thunder Ranch/ Clint Smith, Gunsite, Maas Ayoob/Lethal Force, Robbie Baarkman/Robar industries, Louie Auerback, and Dennis Tueller the originator of the "Tueller drill" or the 21 foot rule of engagement.
I believe that if you check on these as well as others mentioned by Carver, pickenup and buckshot you may find the right person and or institution to get you started depending upon your current level and the tool you would like to concentrate upon at this point.

Did not mean for this to become an epitaph or book, but I felt/feel that this level of questioning deserves the very best any of us can provide in order to help a fellow/lady CCW proponent or just a plain wrapped gun owner who wants and seeks only the best instruction.

Good luck and please keep us posted on your decision and the outcome, (hopefully satisfying and successful for you ) as you become involved.
Please feel free to PM if I can add to or help in any way with more information.

UF

[Cajun Chooter]

Check out Tactical Response - Camden, Tn - by Jim Yeager... i am going in July to take the Fighting Pistol course.. check out his video's

cosmic