considering a suppressor - The Firearms Forum

jce07a · 10-02-2012, 08:02 PM

i have a couple builds planned for the future, i plan on suppressing both of the two new guns im building. I am going for a suppressed SBR (not sure if i am going for standard AR look, ACR, or SCAR) and a ruger 10/22 that i can suppress for varmint near the house (i dont wanna waste .223 or 5.56 ammo on a squirrel when a .22lr will do). my question is, if i were to buy a suppressor (say the gemtech halo), would i be able to swap it back and forth between my 10/22 and my AR? would i need to pay a certain tax for it to go on the 10/22 and a separate one for the AR?
i figure there wouldnt be much caliber issue because the two rounds are so similar in diameter or pressure because the halo is designed for 5.56 so i dont see why it shouldnt be able to work effectively with a .22lr.
basically, once i buy a suppressor (and of course the standard $200 BATF tax stamp) can i put it on whatever gun i own that i care to put it on or do i have to buy a halo and an outback IID?

soundguy · 10-02-2012, 08:09 PM

the tax stamp is for the supressor.. it's it's own NFA weapon.. it has a threaded port right? IE.. it's not married to a gun in which case it's a supressed weapon with 1 single stamp.

slug diameter for a .223 is . ( .224 )

CampingJosh · 10-02-2012, 08:51 PM

If you buy a .223/5.56 suppressor, it'll work on a .22 LR as well. The pressure generated by the .223 will destroy a silencer designed for the .22 LR, so don't try it. But the other way around is fine.

And like Soundguy said, the silencer can be mounted on whatever you want. As long as that thing is something you own legally, of course.

soundguy · 10-02-2012, 08:54 PM

might be a good area for them oil filter supressors with t he registered bbl nut..

jce07a · 10-03-2012, 10:11 AM

Are there different threads? Or are all suppressors threaded the same?

jce07a · 10-03-2012, 10:23 AM

Also, I may be fixin to get an M1A from a buddy, y'all think I'd be better off getting a suppressor for a .308 and using it for all of the above? If I did that, how much efficiency would I lose in having a 7.62 suppressor on a 5.56 or .22lr?

soundguy · 10-03-2012, 10:35 AM

if you are wanting to use different cal weapons.. i'd look into that company that sells a bbl thread nut that you then screw an oil filter can on.. shoot it up and toss the can...

CampingJosh · 10-03-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jce07a

Are there different threads? Or are all suppressors threaded the same?

You can get different threads. Of course, you can also get thread adapters to mate anything to anything else.

If you get something .22 caliber, go with 1/2-28 threads. That's the standard on AR barrels.

carver · 10-03-2012, 11:24 AM

I'm starting to consider one here too. TX has a new law this year: http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/201...ncer-in-texas/

Alpo · 10-03-2012, 11:35 AM

If you build a "suppressed short barreled rifle", there is only one 200 dollar stamp, but the silencer is PART of the rifle. It cannot be removed and put on another gun. If you wish to silence your 10/22, you gotta buy another can, and there's another 200 dollars.

Or you can paper a short barreled rifle (with a threaded muzzle) for 200 and get a 223 can with another 200 dollars, and use the can on either gun.

Either way you look at it, you will have to do two 200-dollar tax stamps. But if you paper the rifle and paper the can separately, you only have to buy one can. If you do the S-SBR, and then want to silence something else, there's another 500 or so for the second can.

Maine04657 · 10-03-2012, 11:44 AM

Ok bad information here. DO NOT use a 5.56/ 223 suppressor especially non serviceable ones in a 22lr! 22lr are VERY dirty if you put those rounds through a sealed 5.56 can your going to gunk it up.

If you want to buy a suppressor the best bang for your buck to start with is a USER SERVICEABLE ( take apart ) 22lr can. Do the research there is a difference between brands you want to get the one that does the best at what it does.

I own a outback ii mine has been jailbroke ( made user serviceable ) but it is a great suppressor though there are better choices. The more you plan on using it the more you need to clean it.

The "oil filter" thing is a bad idea for legal reasons.

A suppressor IS a firearm according to the ATF so you buy one you get the tax stamp and you can put it on any firearm you wish to. The only exception is if you want to avoid a two stamp SBR you can permanently attach the suppressor the the short barrel making it the legal 16" or more and then it woudl not be a SBR however then you woudl be unable to move the suppressor between weapons.

You can use a suppressor on any smaller caliber as long as it is within specks for pressure. Again do NOT use any sealed large caliber suppressor on a 22lr.

As for threads 22lr and 5.56 both use 1/2x28 as the standard. The issue is with LENGTH! Most 22lr threads are .400 the AR threads are .600. If your 22lr is threaded to long you will erode the blast baffle. These a GENERAL sizes the suppressor you buy will tell you what size ( remember thread size includes LENGTH ) you need to make it work best.

Also another note on caliber swapping. Suppressors have there bore cut to the caliber they are designed to work with. Using a suppressor with a larger then needed through hole will decrease the effectiveness of it.

soundguy · 10-03-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine04657

Ok bad information here. .

You must have been refering to your own post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine04657

The "oil filter" thing is a bad idea for legal reasons.

You might want to do a lil research, and then come back and edit your post!,

this might give you more info.

i specifically said registered BBL nut ...

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=107975

so NO.. it's NOT a bad legal idea.. It's a LEGAL idea that costs you the 200$ tax stamp and a form 4.

all it takes is a lil research.......

CampingJosh · 10-03-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine04657

Ok bad information here. DO NOT use a 5.56/ 223 suppressor especially non serviceable ones in a 22lr! 22lr are VERY dirty if you put those rounds through a sealed 5.56 can your going to gunk it up.

If you want to buy a suppressor the best bang for your buck to start with is a USER SERVICEABLE ( take apart ) 22lr can. Do the research there is a difference between brands you want to get the one that does the best at what it does.

You can use a suppressor on any smaller caliber as long as it is within specks for pressure. Again do NOT use any sealed large caliber suppressor on a 22lr.

Yeah, Maine's info here is a good supplement to what I said. It's been so long since I've seen a sealed silencer that I forgot they were even still for sale. Do keep an eye out.

Realistically, just avoid sealed cans. The ones that are user serviceable are often marked working for lots of calibers. This one from the local-to-me manufacturer says you can use it with 5.56, 5.45, .22 Hornet, .22 LR, .22 WMR, .17 HMR, and .17 Mach 2.

Maine04657 · 10-03-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

You must have been refering to your own post

You might want to do a lil research, and then come back and edit your post!,

this might give you more info.

i specifically said registered BBL nut ...

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=107975

so NO.. it's NOT a bad legal idea.. It's a LEGAL idea that costs you the 200$ tax stamp and a form 4.

all it takes is a lil research.......

I know EXACTLY what you where talking about. IT IS A BAD IDEA. As per BATF regs suppressor parts ARE NOT legal for user to replace. This means that BY law if you change the filter on this your have committed a felony. This is why the majority of dealers will not touch this. So yes it is a VERY bad legal idea. The "Econo-Can" can has a ATF letter BUT HAS NOT BEEN TESTED. This means if you buy one it is likely you will not be keeping it.

soundguy · 10-03-2012, 02:09 PM

last i heard they had issued a statement about repalceable wipes.

anyone else heard about this?

Maine04657 · 10-03-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Yeah, Maine's info here is a good supplement to what I said. It's been so long since I've seen a sealed silencer that I forgot they were even still for sale. Do keep an eye out.

Realistically, just avoid sealed cans. The ones that are user serviceable are often marked working for lots of calibers. This one from the local-to-me manufacturer says you can use it with 5.56, 5.45, .22 Hornet, .22 LR, .22 WMR, .17 HMR, and .17 Mach 2.

You misunderstood me. Rimfire cans and pistol caliber cans are great user serviceable. Rifle cans not so. Rifles put out ALLOT more pressure and take apart cans in these calibers are not even made by most of the big companies for good reason. Most every quality rifle suppressor is WELDED together as threads are a weak point.

Huntertown makes good cans. I have a Kestrel myself great can.

Maine04657 · 10-03-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

last i heard they had issued a statement about repalceable wipes.

anyone else heard about this?

ALL suppressor parts with the exception of a few TYPES of wipes are illegal for any person NOT a maker ( form 1 makers EXCLUDED ) or SOT 2 to replace. Even brillo pads are on the verboten list. This includes endcaps, pistons, baffles and tubes.

CampingJosh · 10-03-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maine04657

You misunderstood me. Rimfire cans and pistol caliber cans are great user serviceable. Rifle cans not so. Rifles put out ALLOT more pressure and take apart cans in these calibers are not even made by most of the big companies for good reason. Most every quality rifle suppressor is WELDED together as threads are a weak point.

Huntertown makes good cans. I have a Kestrel myself great can.

No, we're on the same page. You made an important point that I forgot. All the shops around here carry Huntertown because they're local. Even at the huge gun show at the state fair grounds (1500+ tables), I only saw Huntertown and Thompson Machine, both of which make user serviceable centerfire rifle cans. I genuinely forgot that sealed cans are still out there, because I haven't had any interaction with one for several years.

Huntertown guarantees their suppressors against everything except stupid, and they'll even clean it for you at no charge if you can't get it clean. I don't have a suppressor for anything centerfire yet, but I would definitely get one that is user serviceable over a sealed one. Maybe that opinion will change as I get more experience, but that's where I stand for now.

Maine04657 · 10-03-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

I don't have a suppressor for anything centerfire yet, but I would definitely get one that is user serviceable over a sealed one. Maybe that opinion will change as I get more experience, but that's where I stand for now.

I have a few and have had for many years. I myself would not buy a serviceable rifle caliber can. First you would have to put super round count through it to worry about build up as centerfire rounds are much cleaner then say rimfire. Second a sealed can has almost no chance of coming apart. AAC has a great test they love to show off at demo's where they take a 5.56 suppressor and put it on a .308 rifle and fire 30 rounds into it the rounds jam up in the can but the can stays in one piece. This would not be the case with a serviceable can. A rimfire can can be seized up with 4 bricks ( serviceable cans need to have all mating surfaces coated with anti seize and shoudl be loosened up after every use while warm to prevent locking up) My Outback 2 was packed after 1 year of use before I jailbroke it. On the other hand my .308 suppresses has had around 6 thousand rounds through it and it weighs 3 grams more then it did new. Now my heavy 5.56 can that I use on my m16 using cheap ammo and allot of it over 5 cases ( 1000 rounds each ) this summer alone got a bit dirty but a quick bath in "the dip" and all is well. I clean all my serviceable cans with a soda blaster it takes all the gunk off and will not harm the metal it is made of. Like new in a 10 min.

Maine04657 · 10-04-2012, 12:57 PM

I have chatted with two different SOT's about this. The "Econo-Can" is a odd bird. It comes with a oil filter INSTALLED on it already. YOU the owner are NOT legally allowed to change it ( though I suspect many do ). By law you have to send it back to them OR a SOT2 to have the filter replaced. If you do it yourself you have made a suppressor ( suppressor parts ) that is violating federal law with up to a 250,000.00$ fine and up to 10 years in jail. Also as the ATF says OWNING spare parts for a suppressor is illegal then if you where to have one of these and a spare filter for your car in the garage you are also violating the law.

For the price spend another 125 will get a cheap real suppressor and 225 will get you a outback ii.

CampingJosh · 10-04-2012, 01:15 PM

Maine;

Have you ever used your rifle suppressor on an SBR? If so, does that seem to gunk it up any quicker?

carver · 10-04-2012, 02:54 PM

Maine; if I decide to get a suppressor, it will be for a .308 rifle, and I don't want something that I have to fool with very much. Any recomendaions?

Maine04657 · 10-04-2012, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Maine;

Have you ever used your rifle suppressor on an SBR? If so, does that seem to gunk it up any quicker?

Like this? Though not a SBR it is a machine gun and there fore length is irrelevant. And no I put 6 plus cases ( 1000 rounds a case ) of dirty nasty Wolf ( cause it is cheap ) this summer and have zero issues. Even on a semi a SBR will make no noticeable difference in build up. Unless it is a rimefire of course.

http://youtu.be/lAPDLp9rxDo

Maine04657 · 10-04-2012, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

Maine; if I decide to get a suppressor, it will be for a .308 rifle, and I don't want something that I have to fool with very much. Any recomendaions?

What are you going to shoot?
Semi or bolt?
How much are you going to shoot? IE mag dumps out of the ar10 or 10 shots out of the bolt rifle every 3rd weekend?
And the BIG question how much do you wanna spend?

jce07a · 11-04-2012, 11:33 PM

talked to the guys from gem-tech, they told me their sealed cans for 5.56 were perfectly fine shooting .22lr. the guy i spoke with told me his personal can had over 10,000 rounds of .22lr and 5,000 rounds of 5.56 through it and hasnt had any sort of significant decrease in performance. i was also informed that you can soak a sealed can in cleaner designed for suppressors and it works just as well as cleaning a servicable one.

10-02-2012, 08:02 PM	#1
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	considering a suppressor i have a couple builds planned for the future, i plan on suppressing both of the two new guns im building. I am going for a suppressed SBR (not sure if i am going for standard AR look, ACR, or SCAR) and a ruger 10/22 that i can suppress for varmint near the house (i dont wanna waste .223 or 5.56 ammo on a squirrel when a .22lr will do). my question is, if i were to buy a suppressor (say the gemtech halo), would i be able to swap it back and forth between my 10/22 and my AR? would i need to pay a certain tax for it to go on the 10/22 and a separate one for the AR? i figure there wouldnt be much caliber issue because the two rounds are so similar in diameter or pressure because the halo is designed for 5.56 so i dont see why it shouldnt be able to work effectively with a .22lr. basically, once i buy a suppressor (and of course the standard $200 BATF tax stamp) can i put it on whatever gun i own that i care to put it on or do i have to buy a halo and an outback IID? -->

10-02-2012, 08:09 PM	#2
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: considering a suppressor the tax stamp is for the supressor.. it's it's own NFA weapon.. it has a threaded port right? IE.. it's not married to a gun in which case it's a supressed weapon with 1 single stamp. slug diameter for a .223 is . ( .224 )

10-02-2012, 08:51 PM	#3
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,788	Re: considering a suppressor If you buy a .223/5.56 suppressor, it'll work on a .22 LR as well. The pressure generated by the .223 will destroy a silencer designed for the .22 LR, so don't try it. But the other way around is fine. And like Soundguy said, the silencer can be mounted on whatever you want. As long as that thing is something you own legally, of course. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

10-02-2012, 08:54 PM	#4
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: considering a suppressor might be a good area for them oil filter supressors with t he registered bbl nut..

10-03-2012, 10:11 AM	#5
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: considering a suppressor Are there different threads? Or are all suppressors threaded the same?

10-03-2012, 10:23 AM	#6
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: considering a suppressor Also, I may be fixin to get an M1A from a buddy, y'all think I'd be better off getting a suppressor for a .308 and using it for all of the above? If I did that, how much efficiency would I lose in having a 7.62 suppressor on a 5.56 or .22lr?

10-03-2012, 10:35 AM	#7
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: considering a suppressor if you are wanting to use different cal weapons.. i'd look into that company that sells a bbl thread nut that you then screw an oil filter can on.. shoot it up and toss the can...

10-03-2012, 11:24 AM	#9
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,254	Re: considering a suppressor I'm starting to consider one here too. TX has a new law this year: http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/201...ncer-in-texas/ __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

10-03-2012, 11:35 AM	#10
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,661	Re: considering a suppressor If you build a "suppressed short barreled rifle", there is only one 200 dollar stamp, but the silencer is PART of the rifle. It cannot be removed and put on another gun. If you wish to silence your 10/22, you gotta buy another can, and there's another 200 dollars. Or you can paper a short barreled rifle (with a threaded muzzle) for 200 and get a 223 can with another 200 dollars, and use the can on either gun. Either way you look at it, you will have to do two 200-dollar tax stamps. But if you paper the rifle and paper the can separately, you only have to buy one can. If you do the S-SBR, and then want to silence something else, there's another 500 or so for the second can. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-03-2012, 11:44 AM	#11
Maine04657 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Maine Posts: 329	Re: considering a suppressor Ok bad information here. DO NOT use a 5.56/ 223 suppressor especially non serviceable ones in a 22lr! 22lr are VERY dirty if you put those rounds through a sealed 5.56 can your going to gunk it up. If you want to buy a suppressor the best bang for your buck to start with is a USER SERVICEABLE ( take apart ) 22lr can. Do the research there is a difference between brands you want to get the one that does the best at what it does. I own a outback ii mine has been jailbroke ( made user serviceable ) but it is a great suppressor though there are better choices. The more you plan on using it the more you need to clean it. The "oil filter" thing is a bad idea for legal reasons. A suppressor IS a firearm according to the ATF so you buy one you get the tax stamp and you can put it on any firearm you wish to. The only exception is if you want to avoid a two stamp SBR you can permanently attach the suppressor the the short barrel making it the legal 16" or more and then it woudl not be a SBR however then you woudl be unable to move the suppressor between weapons. You can use a suppressor on any smaller caliber as long as it is within specks for pressure. Again do NOT use any sealed large caliber suppressor on a 22lr. As for threads 22lr and 5.56 both use 1/2x28 as the standard. The issue is with LENGTH! Most 22lr threads are .400 the AR threads are .600. If your 22lr is threaded to long you will erode the blast baffle. These a GENERAL sizes the suppressor you buy will tell you what size ( remember thread size includes LENGTH ) you need to make it work best. Also another note on caliber swapping. Suppressors have there bore cut to the caliber they are designed to work with. Using a suppressor with a larger then needed through hole will decrease the effectiveness of it.

10-03-2012, 02:09 PM	#15
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: considering a suppressor last i heard they had issued a statement about repalceable wipes. anyone else heard about this?

10-04-2012, 12:57 PM	#20
Maine04657 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Maine Posts: 329	Re: considering a suppressor I have chatted with two different SOT's about this. The "Econo-Can" is a odd bird. It comes with a oil filter INSTALLED on it already. YOU the owner are NOT legally allowed to change it ( though I suspect many do ). By law you have to send it back to them OR a SOT2 to have the filter replaced. If you do it yourself you have made a suppressor ( suppressor parts ) that is violating federal law with up to a 250,000.00$ fine and up to 10 years in jail. Also as the ATF says OWNING spare parts for a suppressor is illegal then if you where to have one of these and a spare filter for your car in the garage you are also violating the law. For the price spend another 125 will get a cheap real suppressor and 225 will get you a outback ii.

10-04-2012, 01:15 PM	#21
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,788	Re: considering a suppressor Maine; Have you ever used your rifle suppressor on an SBR? If so, does that seem to gunk it up any quicker? __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

10-04-2012, 02:54 PM	#22
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,254	Re: considering a suppressor Maine; if I decide to get a suppressor, it will be for a .308 rifle, and I don't want something that I have to fool with very much. Any recomendaions? __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

11-04-2012, 11:33 PM	#25
jce07a V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 216	Re: considering a suppressor talked to the guys from gem-tech, they told me their sealed cans for 5.56 were perfectly fine shooting .22lr. the guy i spoke with told me his personal can had over 10,000 rounds of .22lr and 5,000 rounds of 5.56 through it and hasnt had any sort of significant decrease in performance. i was also informed that you can soak a sealed can in cleaner designed for suppressors and it works just as well as cleaning a servicable one.