I have no words for this one

[jack404]

except that anyone who defends islam defends this garbage
Girls between 4 and 16 traded like cattle to settle a murder

forced marriage or sexual servitude ( forced prostitution)
all good in islam

QUETTA: As many as 13 young girls have been bartered to settle a blood feud between two tribes in Dera Bugti district of Balochistan, officials and tribal elders said on Monday.
The girls — aged between four and 16 — were given in Vani by a tribal jirga which arbitrated a five-month-old blood feud between the Baloch tribes of Masoori and Shahwani Masoori. Both are sub-clans of the Bugti tribe.
Mir Tariq Masoori Bugti, a lawmaker in the Balochistan Assembly, is said to have conducted the jirga, which was attended by tribal elders and notable locals, in the Baikar area of Phelawagh.
Due to conflicting statements, the date of the Jirga is still not clear. Two tribal elders, however, told the BBC Urdu Service that it was either convened on September 3 or 4.
According to them, Masoori tribesman Roshan Khan had murdered Mira Khan, a Shahani Masoori tribesman. The jirga declared Roshan Khan guilty and ruled that his tribe give 13 girls in Vani to the offended family besides an Rs3 million fine.
Vani is a tribal custom in which girls are forcibly married off to settle tribal feuds.
A senior official based in Dera Bugti confirmed the girls were bartered and that they were aged between four and 16.
Mir Sarfraz Khan Masoori Bugti, a cousin of Mir Tariq, also concurred that the lawmaker convened the jirga and that the girls given in Vani were less than 16 years of age.
Condemning the morbid tradition, Mir Sarfraz called upon the chief justice of Pakistan to take suo motu notice of the incident.
According to Ghulam Nabi Shahani, an elder of the Shahani Masoori Bugti tribe, several participants of the jirga have also confirmed the harrowing episode.
Mir Tariq, however, has denied conducting any jirga despite reports that the first tranche of the Rs3million fine has already been paid to the offended party.
Interestingly, Mir Tariq defended the jirga system’s reconciliatory powers. According to him, it helps resolve local feuds and maintain peace and harmony in the society.
Following media reports, Dera Bugti’s Assistant Commissioner Qasim Naveed Bugti formed an inquiry committee headed by Tehsildar Atta Muhammad to further probe the matter.
(WITH ADDITIONAL INPUT FROM AGENCIES)
Published in The Express Tribune, October 9th, 2012.

[Maine04657]

Just to play devils advocate here but people ( christians ) from here in the USA are spending time and money in Africa making homosexuality a crime and guess what they are not only endorphin JAIL time for being homosexual but also the DEATH PENALTY. I may also remind you the mass sexual abuse of young boys right here in America. While the latter was not endorsed ( publicly ) by the church it was covered up and not reported by them.

Those who seek to cry out about in this case muslims are many of the ones who where not outspoken about the abuses here or by the church here elsewhere.

I do not defend any of these actions. But ask yourself how many people no longer attend the church here in the USA after what we know for a fact they did?

[jack404]

we had a similar group here

tossed em out

toss out all evil

or sit back and just complain and do nothing then put blame there as a diversion from another evil

thats endorsement ..

you ever gone to one of these "Churches" and done anything ??

then your a part of the problem

i'm as critical of my own faith as i am at islam , but the two cant be compared

in two days islam has in the news killed kids published kiddys books on how to make molotovs and become a martyr and how to kill folks like you

show me one Christian church ever to ever do anything like that

and dont drag up cults like the peoples temples

they're the same as islam ,

just cults

[Maine04657]

Originally Posted by jack404

show me one Christian church ever to ever do anything like that

and dont drag up cults like the peoples temples

they're the same as islam ,

just cults

All religions are cults just to different degrees of severity.

As for the churches actions over the years they have done everything form kidnapping a Jewish child ( the pope raised him as his own ) to murdering those who do not take the faith or practice another faith.

[FreeSovereign]

Where is the link or source Jack? It is helpful to have a link to send to others.

[carver]

No one here will stand up for any of the human chattel, or child abuse, that goes on in the world. The difference is that in most Christain countries this is illegal. It may happen anyway, but if they can catch you, you go to jail. By muslim law, it's not illegal, but sanctioned by the muslim leaders.

[jack404]

i asked you to show me eh so no proof just more derission

Mr Maine ,

typical run to the defence of islam by blaming others but then cant show proof of the claims

theres been evil done by every church, as they are run by men and men do bad things they also do good things but you'll never see that your too busy defending pedofilew loving cults while blaming others for the worlds evils i suppose the crusade where a evil Christian thing too huh ??



Free Sovereign


for the source in english and not blotochi

try here

http://tribune.com.pk/story/448958/d...e-tribal-feud/

[Maine04657]

Originally Posted by jack404

typical run to the defence of islam by blaming others but then cant show proof of the claims

I am NOT defending anyone. I am simply pointing out that ALL religions have issues. Personally I think there shoudl be no religion. IMHO it woudl be far better for man as a race to spend more time on life itself instead of worrying about what you need to do or how you must act to get into a place of myth and then have to live there FOREVER!!! Even if you had all you ever wanted in such a place can you even imagine the suffering of having to live there FOREVER? Life is what we get use it live it enjoy it as it does not last and it has a end.

[carver]

Originally Posted by Maine04657

I am NOT defending anyone. I am simply pointing out that ALL religions have issues. Personally I think there shoudl be no religion. IMHO it woudl be far better for man as a race to spend more time on life itself instead of worrying about what you need to do or how you must act to get into a place of myth and then have to live there FOREVER!!! Even if you had all you ever wanted in such a place can you even imagine the suffering of having to live there FOREVER? Life is what we get use it live it enjoy it as it does not last and it has a end.

Aref you an atheist?

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by carver

Aref you an atheist?

Really Carver. After that statement you really had to ask?

Maine, your not gonna get much support here with that belief. I respect your right to believe what you want, but I'm warning you now, don't start pushing that crap here bud

[carver]

That was bait!

[al45lc]

Originally Posted by Maine04657

I am NOT defending anyone. I am simply pointing out that ALL religions have issues. Personally I think there shoudl be no religion. IMHO it woudl be far better for man as a race to spend more time on life itself instead of worrying about what you need to do or how you must act to get into a place of myth and then have to live there FOREVER!!! Even if you had all you ever wanted in such a place can you even imagine the suffering of having to live there FOREVER? Life is what we get use it live it enjoy it as it does not last and it has a end.

The comparison is NOT analogous, you speak of criminal and IMMORAL activity by Christians against Jack's report of similar activity SUPPORTED by the religion of Islam.
The fact that a church tries to cover it up shows directly that they knew it wouldn't be supported by the people, whereas the Islamic leaders CAME UP with this idea of bartering in female children.
Your analogy is false, and illogical.

Maine, your not gonna get much support here with that belief. I respect your right to believe what you want, but I'm warning you now, don't start pushing that crap here bud[/QUOTE]

If you "warn" him to NOT do it, you are in effect censoring him and therfore do NOT respect his beliefs.
You can't have it both ways.

[Double D]

Look, bottom line is everyone is entitled to their own belief but you do have to take into consideration that you have come to a privately owned firearms site that has its own forum pastor and I think its safe to say that the strong majority here are christian or are very tolerant of the christian belief. While there is nothing wrong with you believing the way you do, you will not get any support here and it will most likely be met with a strong opposition that will probably lead to strong disagreements which in turn normally go south in a hurry and turn ugly, forcing us to censor the threads and reprimand someone. Comparing the muslim religion to christianity is pure nonsense and anyone with half a brain knows that its not even justifiably an equal discussion. Jack has studied Islam and debated these people for many years and can give you all of the inside facts about this ruthless organization they call a religion. There is no place for comparison. Continuing to belittle the majority of the members faith here will not win you any friends anytime soon...trust me.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by al45lc

If you "warn" him to NOT do it, you are in effect censoring him and therfore do NOT respect his beliefs.
You can't have it both ways.

Sure I can, libs do it everyday. You know, how the whale wants no guns but her kids body guard carrys one.

And your right, I DO NOT respect his belief. I respect that he has a right to believe it. But I do not respect it in itself. I respect the right of libs to tell me that guns are evil. I do not respect that belief either. But they have the right to believe it. Do you understand the difference? Or should I try to come up with another analogy?

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Double D

Look, bottom line is everyone is entitled to their own belief but you do have to take into consideration that you have come to a privately owned firearms site that has its own forum pastor and I think its safe to say that the strong majority here are christian or are very tolerant of the christian belief. While there is nothing wrong with you believing the way you do, you will not get any support here and it will most likely be met with a strong opposition that will probably lead to strong disagreements which in turn normally go south in a hurry and turn ugly, forcing us to censor the threads and reprimand someone. Comparing the muslim religion to christianity is pure nonsense and anyone with half a brain knows that its not even justifiably an equal discussion. Jack has studied Islam and debated these people for many years and can give you all of the inside facts about this ruthless organization they call a religion. There is no place for comparison. Continuing to belittle the majority of the members faith here will not win you any friends anytime soon...trust me.

DD, I tried to type just this sentiment and deleted it 4 times. You wrote it out much better than my failed attempts. All my attempts went sour. This was in effect what my "warning" about. I do no respect your belief, but I do respect that you have a right to believe it. If that makes any sense. But pushing that belief here will not make you many friends.

[76Highboy]

My belief is that it is OK to have a religion of choice as long as it does not promote murder and violence. Islam breaks both of those rules. As for religion: religion is mans sad attempt to get to Heaven. Christianity on the other hand is the belief based on the fact that Jesus Christ died for the sins of those that will accept it. And that is a guarantee.

Also I agree with DD.

[al45lc]

One can 'believe' anything they want, how could you stop them?
It's the EXPRESSION of that belief that counts. To say otherwise is hypocrisy.
If someone calls his beliefs "crap", that's not respect.
So it's ok if one is "tolerant" of the Christian belief as DD points out, but not to express otherwise nor to expect that tolerance in return?
DD, you effectively defended a tyranny of the majority.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by al45lc

One can 'believe' anything they want, how could you stop them?
It's the EXPRESSION of that belief that counts. To say otherwise is hypocrisy.
If someone calls his beliefs "crap", that's not respect.
So it's ok if one is "tolerant" of the Christian belief as DD points out, but not to express otherwise nor to expect that tolerance in return?
DD, you effectively defended a tyranny of the majority.

I dont think you understand exactly. Its fine for him to express his beliefs and say for example, I dont believe in any of the bible. I say, ok, thats all good. But bashing the very core of the faith is out of line such as calling heaven a myth, trying to get a rise out of a christian only to then point a finger at them for being human and responding to him for saying it. Next, it will be a direct personal attack on Jesus trying to say he was gay or something. I have seen this time and time again. I tolerate non believers every day right here on the forum, we have several. And they tolerate us. We are one big happy tolerant bunch.

[Maine04657]

Originally Posted by Double D

But bashing the very core of the faith is out of line such as calling heaven a myth, trying to get a rise out of a christian only to then point a finger at them for being human and responding to him for saying it. Next, it will be a direct personal attack on Jesus trying to say he was gay or something. I have seen this time and time again. I tolerate non believers every day right here on the forum, we have several. And they tolerate us. We are one big happy tolerant bunch.

I think you misunderstood my point. I am not bashing anyone. One can have a belief and express it this does not mean he is bashing something. This is simply my view. I am a firm believer in logic. Thus the views I hold.

My point as to this thread was one of one religion being bashed for what all the others have done at one point or another in time. Right now in Africa the "Christians" are in fact supporting he genocide of homosexuals. People from the church right here in the USA have pumped allot of money onto African countries supporting and enforcing LAWS that make homosexuality not only punishable by prison time but DEATH.

Now not every person of this faith think that all homosexuals should be killed right? Well the same goes for Muslims not every one thinks all non believers shoudl be killed. I lived in Turkey for three years when I was younger ( dad was Navy) and I spent allot of time in public with 99 percent of those around being Muslim and they where great people. Never a hateful word or action taken.

I was simply pointing out that religion ( all of them ) have issues with people they do not like or do not share there views. I on the other hand think you shoudl be able to have whatever views you want. Given of course you do not harm anyone as part of those views. This I would hope all people here could agree on. Keep this in mind I have NEVER told anybody that if they do not think just like me they will spend eternity ( Ie after they die ) in a place where all kind of horrible thing will happen to then forever. So who is bashing whom?

[jack404]

My point as to this thread was one of one religion being bashed for what all the others have done at one point or another in time.

when has the christian church ever done crap like islam

name one time , go on, name one

Lords army in nigeria and Uganda the Christians you talk about


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army

read who they be sonshine

yes Christians are dying in nigeria every day killed for jihad killed for allah

as for the gays , Lords resistance army is behind it and their media machine run out of the new age faith centre ( run by atheists , cause they advocate science instead of God ) and the lords army makes em a good buck eh ..

The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), also known as the Lord's Resistance Movement, is a militant group/cult operating in northern Uganda, South Sudan, the Democratic Republic of Congo, and the Central African Republic.[6] It has been accused of widespread human rights violations, including murder, abduction, mutilation, child-sex slavery and forcing children to participate in hostilities.

The group is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium. Since 1987, Kony is believed to have recruited between 60,000 and 100,000 child soldiers and displaced around 2 million people throughout central Africa.[23] The LRA is one of the foreign organizations designated as terrorist by the United States,[24] and its leadership is wanted by the International Criminal Court for war crimes and crimes against humanity.[7]


For a decade starting in the mid-1990s, the LRA was strengthened by military support from the government of Sudan,[36] which was retaliating against Ugandan government support for rebels in what would become South Sudan

Though the group Claims Christian powers is sole prayer system is Islamic


Active 1987–present
Ideology Mysticism
Acholi nationalism
parts of Christian fundamentalism
Islam
Leaders Joseph Kony (believed hiding in CAR)
Vincent Otti
Raska Lukwiya
Okot Odhiambo
Dominic Ongwen
Odong Latek



so we have a group that uses a mix of islam for slave trading and praying , christian crosses to protect themselves and black majik when they want it too and you call these guys Christian

hahahahahahaha

are you really wanting to argue this ??

come now surely you can admit your defending the islamic path because thats way more prefeerable to you , unlimited young kids you can force to do what ever you want and God says its ok , unlike them bloddy Christians who hunt and persecute people like that

you forget Christians made that crap illegal

while islam made it a business

and the new age no faithers are backing kony as he;'s good for business and keeps them rare minerals flowing with his slave workers

how that all you Ipod owners and iphone users , perveyers of slave made goods and butchery on a scale that no church has ever achieved unless you beleive islam is a real faith and not just another death cult like the so called XChristians you claim are doing our work

sonny they be your folks you defend em as they pray to allah

they only wear crosses to stop bullets , they also eat the hearts of young virgins to do the same thing

how christian is that ??

you dont care

what ever suits your defence of the pedofile cult

here your child abusers

what chance has this kid of growing up to be a human being ??

or will he be another to start crap he cant finish and be removed from the gene pool ??

[jack404]

Mali Islamists 'buying child soldiers, imposing Sharia'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19905905

Christians imposing sharia law ??

UN Official: Islamists in Mali Are Targeting Women

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/o...6#.UHdTT2_A-8C


or

http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk...ail/story.html

A MUSLIM leader has successfully appealed against a potentially life-long jail term he was handed for raping a boy and sexually abusing another.

Mohammed Hanif Khan, pictured, was an imam at Tunstall Mosque when allegations came to light that he had carried out sex attacks on the two boys, aged 12 and 15.

Khan, who moved to Bardsley Close, Ellesmere Port, was jailed indefinitely for public protection – which is almost identical to a life term – at Nottingham Crown Court on March 18 last year, after being convicted of two counts of rape and one of sexual activity with a child.

Yesterday, Lord Justice Aikens, Mr Justice Holroyde and Judge Peter Rook QC, sitting at London's Criminal Appeal Court, quashed that sentence, replacing it with a 16-year jail term, plus a five-year extended period of licence.

The ruling means that Khan will serve eight years behind bars, followed by another 13 years on licence in the community. During that time, he will be closely supervised and could be recalled to prison if he commits another offence.

Tunisian Children Recite Al-Qaeda Song Extolling 9/11: 'Our Terror Is Blessed'

Following are excerpts from footage of Tunisian children reciting an Al-Qaeda song, which was posted on the Internet on June 28, 2012.


do we remember the previous version where the boy got the words wrong and was beaten to death on video ??

this is islam

show me one Christian church that says anything like this is ok

i'll show you where in islam it is commanded

[jack404]

2012.10.10 (Riyom, Nigeria) - Three children and their mother are among over a dozen Christians are slaughtered during a Muslim raid on their village.
2012.10.10 (Dallyam, Nigeria) - Muslim terrorists shoot four members of a Christian family at close range.
2012.10.09 (Harasta, Syria) - At least forty people are killed in two massive al-Nusra suicide blasts.
2012.10.09 (Kano, Nigeria) - Devout Muslims kill two cops guarding health workers administering polio immunizations to children following a rumor at their mosque.
2012.10.09 (Tarin Kot, Afghanistan) - A cleric is assassinated by Religion of Peace rivals.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by Maine04657

I think you misunderstood my point. I am not bashing anyone. One can have a belief and express it this does not mean he is bashing something. This is simply my view. I am a firm believer in logic. Thus the views I hold.

My point as to this thread was one of one religion being bashed for what all the others have done at one point or another in time. Right now in Africa the "Christians" are in fact supporting he genocide of homosexuals. People from the church right here in the USA have pumped allot of money onto African countries supporting and enforcing LAWS that make homosexuality not only punishable by prison time but DEATH.

Now not every person of this faith think that all homosexuals should be killed right? Well the same goes for Muslims not every one thinks all non believers shoudl be killed. I lived in Turkey for three years when I was younger ( dad was Navy) and I spent allot of time in public with 99 percent of those around being Muslim and they where great people. Never a hateful word or action taken.

I was simply pointing out that religion ( all of them ) have issues with people they do not like or do not share there views. I on the other hand think you shoudl be able to have whatever views you want. Given of course you do not harm anyone as part of those views. This I would hope all people here could agree on. Keep this in mind I have NEVER told anybody that if they do not think just like me they will spend eternity ( Ie after they die ) in a place where all kind of horrible thing will happen to then forever. So who is bashing whom?

Keep in mind that not one christian has ever said that about eternity. Not one. They didnt make it up. They only repeated what the living God said. Its not up to us. One thing is for certain....Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is lord. Not everyone knows or realizes that yet. That too is not any of our doing so dont blame us. We are only sharing the word as we know it. That is in no way bashing anyone. Its ok if you dont believe it. Its only out of love that we would want you to know. Sure would hate for you to not know.

[TheGunClinger]

This thread has de-evolved into a "Religious Discussions" thread. Perhaps it should be moved there. JMHO.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by TheGunClinger

This thread has de-evolved into a "Religious Discussions" thread. Perhaps it should be moved there. JMHO.

I don't think so. This needs to be here for all to see