First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed - The Firearms Forum

stev32k · 10-30-2012, 12:20 PM

Just took the first batch (250) of once fired 9mm brass out of the tumbler. The cases look like they just came from the factory inside and out. The flash pockets and primer holes are clean as new - not a speck any where.

The next step is to dry them in the oven on low temperature for an hour or two.

The next batch of 40 caliber is in the tumbler now.

Alpo · 10-30-2012, 01:03 PM

Me, personally, I like 'em dirty on the inside.

I've noticed that with NEW brass, the expander sticks. Takes a little force to remove it. Doesn't happen when I'm doing fired brass. Up and down, no pain, no fuss.

I presume that is because either residual graphite from the powder, or the burned powder residue itself, acts as a dry lubricant, and allows the expander to slide in easier.

X Ring · 10-30-2012, 02:14 PM

They look real good, you should be able to load some ammo you can be proud of. I assume you are using SS pins to tumble them.

DixieLandMan · 10-30-2012, 02:31 PM

Nice looking brass. What kind of media did you use?

stev32k · 10-30-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ring

They look real good, you should be able to load some ammo you can be proud of. I assume you are using SS pins to tumble them.

Yes, 5 lb of stainless steel pins, 1 tablespoon of cascade and 1 teaspoon of lemon cleaner. Added 1 gallon of cold water and tumbled 4 hours.

garydude · 10-30-2012, 02:37 PM

Beautiful Stev- I've been thinking of going wet instead of dry tumbling.

Alpo, any reason you couldn't resize and bell before you clean the brass?

CampingJosh · 10-30-2012, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garydude

Alpo, any reason you couldn't resize and bell before you clean the brass?

Because that defeats the purpose of cleaning the brass. The point is to protect the dies from the dirty bits on the cases. Resizing dirty cases can ruin dies.

stev32k · 10-30-2012, 04:23 PM

When I reloaded about 30 years I didn't clean brass at all except to blow the dirt out of the case. Every now and then I got a dud and twice the primer fired but the power didn't ignite and I had to dig the bullet out of the barrel. Back then I blamed the primers, but more than likely it was debris in the case or flash pocket.

I vowed this time it would not happen and spent some extra money on the tumbler to eliminate that problem. And besides I like nice shiny, new looking cartridges. Just got the second batch in the oven and they look as good as the first.

soundguy · 10-30-2012, 05:32 PM

any reason why you can't use die lube on pistol brass ( coming from a guy that does lots of bottleneck rifle brass.. etc )

312shooter · 10-30-2012, 07:28 PM

Stev,

What temp are you at with the oven? I've tried baking them at 200 and it helps. Since I live in the desert I have found cradling them in a loosely wrapped towel and tossing it from side to side, then letting them air dry overnight works just as well. That Thumlers is a great machine, brass looks great and you will rarely need to clean your dies or work area; a huge plus in my book.

soundguy · 10-30-2012, 07:56 PM

i put mine on the show rack in the clothes dryer in a reuseable turkey roaster disposable pan plus a paper towell

stev32k · 10-31-2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 312shooter

Stev,

What temp are you at with the oven? I've tried baking them at 200 and it helps. Since I live in the desert I have found cradling them in a loosely wrapped towel and tossing it from side to side, then letting them air dry overnight works just as well. That Thumlers is a great machine, brass looks great and you will rarely need to clean your dies or work area; a huge plus in my book.

I use the lowest temperature setting I can. I read that if you dry them at too high a temp it can tarnish the brass. It's about 125 deg and it takes about an hour.

LDBennett · 10-31-2012, 09:04 AM

A couple of things:

The residue inside the cases is mostly carbon and it acts as a lubricant when you size and bell the cases and seat the bullets. If you remove it all then you may have to resort to NECO internal neck lube graphite to size the cases without too much force and to avoid the bullets collapsing the wall of the case as the bullets are seated.

Don't over heat brass cases as you effect their temper and strength. The case head is especially important to keep from over heating as it is the strength of the case. If its strength is destroyed by the heat then so may your gun and you when you fire one of these weakened cases. I think if you insist on using a liquid media then you need to let the cases air dry after removing most of the trapped water by shaking the case. It might take a day or even two to be sure the interior of the cases are completely free of moisture. This is the main reason I do not like any cleaning process that includes water. I take my cases from the vibrational cleaner tub directly to the reloading bench. No waiting.

LDBennett

soundguy · 10-31-2012, 09:14 AM

question.

I thought anealing a brass case made it better handle stresses by preventing cracking.

also on the carbon in the cases.

I wonder how that relates to soot.

soot is abrasive. I know in the engine work i do, we look at soot as an abrasive and damaging particle in the engine. I take it soot is not abrasive and damaging to the case and die set?

just wondering.

soundguy

LDBennett · 10-31-2012, 09:26 AM

soundguy:

One correct way you anneal brass (and you only anneal the shoulder and neck) is to sit the head of the case in water to assure it is not heated at all. If any of the head is annealed, the case is useless and dangerous.

While soot may be abrasive, the residue inside fired cartridge cases aids reloading with no ill effects on the hardened tooling. Dirt on the outside of the cases scratches the sizing dies and ruins them.

LDBennett

soundguy · 10-31-2012, 09:52 AM

ok, thanks, I had wondered about some of that.

i would guess if you kept the drying heat mild. ie.. under 200 degrees, it would be no different as to what the cartridge would see in a gun chamber. i know my brass ejects hot enough to burn you.. and after prolonged fireing.. the bbl is too hot to touch. meaning the chamber must be near about 180' or so.

ozo · 10-31-2012, 10:33 AM

Mine simply get tumbled in white rice,
no additives, inspected, and on to the press.

soundguy · 10-31-2012, 11:14 AM

i use a mix.. white rice, corn cob media, and some walnut mix.

stev32k · 10-31-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

A couple of things:

The residue inside the cases is mostly carbon and it acts as a lubricant when you size and bell the cases and seat the bullets. If you remove it all then you may have to resort to NECO internal neck lube graphite to size the cases without too much force and to avoid the bullets collapsing the wall of the case as the bullets are seated.

Don't over heat brass cases as you effect their temper and strength. The case head is especially important to keep from over heating as it is the strength of the case. If its strength is destroyed by the heat then so may your gun and you when you fire one of these weakened cases. I think if you insist on using a liquid media then you need to let the cases air dry after removing most of the trapped water by shaking the case. It might take a day or even two to be sure the interior of the cases are completely free of moisture. This is the main reason I do not like any cleaning process that includes water. I take my cases from the vibrational cleaner tub directly to the reloading bench. No waiting. LDBennett

At what temperature do you start to anneal the cases?

steve2md · 11-13-2012, 10:22 PM

Wow. A little aggressive about other member's methods much?

He's loading straight walled pistol cartridges. Odds are, his dies are carbide lined. Not likely to scratch those with a little dirt on the cases if he chooses to size/deprime prior to tumbling (to get the full benefit of ss media, you should deprime prior to tumbling anyways). The carbide dies negates the need for lubricant of any sort on his non bottle necked cases, so there is no need to leave any residue in the cases. Leaving cases dirty/unpolished is a PERSONAL PREFERENCE, not some golden rule of reloading. Any process that is safe and makes an individual feel better about their reloading process, is the right thing for that person to do. Some people LIKE shiny, factory new looking brass....get over it!

OK, rant done.

Stev32K, Your brass looks great

. I personally live in AZ, so I don't use extra methods to dry my brass in the summer. it goes on a towel in the driveway for an hour and is almost too hot to touch. in the winter, I sometimes use the compressor to blow out my rifle cases, but otherwise, an hour on the towel in the driveway gets 'em bone dry. I still tend to tumble one day, and load the next, just in case. I use a small amount of dish soap (whatever the wife has on hand), a 9mm case full of lemishine, and a gallon of COLD water. it works fine for me.

Dog Soldier · 11-13-2012, 10:48 PM

I clean the ID of case necks. The neck holds the bullet. The clean neck is as important as having clean bullets. I would not want carbon covered bullets. The very fact that fouling is not laid down even in the neck is another reason to clean the neck IDs. In all cases lube should be removed from the necks with a 92% low water base alcohol. The clean surface of the neck and bullet produce positive friction.
During anealing with a torch set the cases in a pan of water. The surface of the water should contact the case not more than a 1/4" below the shoulder. The tip of the torch should turn the case neck an even cherry red. When the neck is hot tip it into the water. There are many ways to soften brass. Check hot lead aneal and oven aneal both allow for constant readable results.

10-30-2012, 12:20 PM	#1
stev32k V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 370	First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Just took the first batch (250) of once fired 9mm brass out of the tumbler. The cases look like they just came from the factory inside and out. The flash pockets and primer holes are clean as new - not a speck any where. The next step is to dry them in the oven on low temperature for an hour or two. The next batch of 40 caliber is in the tumbler now. Attached Images -->

10-30-2012, 01:03 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,661	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Me, personally, I like 'em dirty on the inside. I've noticed that with NEW brass, the expander sticks. Takes a little force to remove it. Doesn't happen when I'm doing fired brass. Up and down, no pain, no fuss. I presume that is because either residual graphite from the powder, or the burned powder residue itself, acts as a dry lubricant, and allows the expander to slide in easier. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-30-2012, 02:14 PM	#3
X Ring V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 188	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed They look real good, you should be able to load some ammo you can be proud of. I assume you are using SS pins to tumble them. __________________ Load More = Shoot More http://s1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/Wynn3/

10-30-2012, 02:31 PM	#4
DixieLandMan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 607	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Nice looking brass. What kind of media did you use?

10-30-2012, 02:37 PM	#6
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 742	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Beautiful Stev- I've been thinking of going wet instead of dry tumbling. Alpo, any reason you couldn't resize and bell before you clean the brass?

10-30-2012, 04:23 PM	#8
stev32k V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 370	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed When I reloaded about 30 years I didn't clean brass at all except to blow the dirt out of the case. Every now and then I got a dud and twice the primer fired but the power didn't ignite and I had to dig the bullet out of the barrel. Back then I blamed the primers, but more than likely it was debris in the case or flash pocket. I vowed this time it would not happen and spent some extra money on the tumbler to eliminate that problem. And besides I like nice shiny, new looking cartridges. Just got the second batch in the oven and they look as good as the first.

10-30-2012, 05:32 PM	#9
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed any reason why you can't use die lube on pistol brass ( coming from a guy that does lots of bottleneck rifle brass.. etc )

10-30-2012, 07:28 PM	#10
312shooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 1,148	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Stev, What temp are you at with the oven? I've tried baking them at 200 and it helps. Since I live in the desert I have found cradling them in a loosely wrapped towel and tossing it from side to side, then letting them air dry overnight works just as well. That Thumlers is a great machine, brass looks great and you will rarely need to clean your dies or work area; a huge plus in my book. __________________ "Democracy is based on citizenship- perhaps the greatest gift the United States has given to the world- Power is vested in the people themselves, and government flows from the people" James M Henslin

10-30-2012, 07:56 PM	#11
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed i put mine on the show rack in the clothes dryer in a reuseable turkey roaster disposable pan plus a paper towell

10-31-2012, 09:04 AM	#13
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed A couple of things: The residue inside the cases is mostly carbon and it acts as a lubricant when you size and bell the cases and seat the bullets. If you remove it all then you may have to resort to NECO internal neck lube graphite to size the cases without too much force and to avoid the bullets collapsing the wall of the case as the bullets are seated. Don't over heat brass cases as you effect their temper and strength. The case head is especially important to keep from over heating as it is the strength of the case. If its strength is destroyed by the heat then so may your gun and you when you fire one of these weakened cases. I think if you insist on using a liquid media then you need to let the cases air dry after removing most of the trapped water by shaking the case. It might take a day or even two to be sure the interior of the cases are completely free of moisture. This is the main reason I do not like any cleaning process that includes water. I take my cases from the vibrational cleaner tub directly to the reloading bench. No waiting. LDBennett

10-31-2012, 09:14 AM	#14
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed question. I thought anealing a brass case made it better handle stresses by preventing cracking. also on the carbon in the cases. I wonder how that relates to soot. soot is abrasive. I know in the engine work i do, we look at soot as an abrasive and damaging particle in the engine. I take it soot is not abrasive and damaging to the case and die set? just wondering. soundguy

10-31-2012, 09:26 AM	#15
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,714	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed soundguy: One correct way you anneal brass (and you only anneal the shoulder and neck) is to sit the head of the case in water to assure it is not heated at all. If any of the head is annealed, the case is useless and dangerous. While soot may be abrasive, the residue inside fired cartridge cases aids reloading with no ill effects on the hardened tooling. Dirt on the outside of the cases scratches the sizing dies and ruins them. LDBennett

10-31-2012, 09:52 AM	#16
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed ok, thanks, I had wondered about some of that. i would guess if you kept the drying heat mild. ie.. under 200 degrees, it would be no different as to what the cartridge would see in a gun chamber. i know my brass ejects hot enough to burn you.. and after prolonged fireing.. the bbl is too hot to touch. meaning the chamber must be near about 180' or so.

10-31-2012, 10:33 AM	#17
ozo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 2,770	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Mine simply get tumbled in white rice, no additives, inspected, and on to the press. __________________ http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews, "ozo. you're off your rocker sir." -johnlives4christ http://www.prisonplanet.com/ -America,Bless GOD-

10-31-2012, 11:14 AM	#18
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,441	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed i use a mix.. white rice, corn cob media, and some walnut mix.

11-13-2012, 10:22 PM	#20
steve2md Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed Wow. A little aggressive about other member's methods much? He's loading straight walled pistol cartridges. Odds are, his dies are carbide lined. Not likely to scratch those with a little dirt on the cases if he chooses to size/deprime prior to tumbling (to get the full benefit of ss media, you should deprime prior to tumbling anyways). The carbide dies negates the need for lubricant of any sort on his non bottle necked cases, so there is no need to leave any residue in the cases. Leaving cases dirty/unpolished is a PERSONAL PREFERENCE, not some golden rule of reloading. Any process that is safe and makes an individual feel better about their reloading process, is the right thing for that person to do. Some people LIKE shiny, factory new looking brass....get over it! OK, rant done. Stev32K, Your brass looks great. I personally live in AZ, so I don't use extra methods to dry my brass in the summer. it goes on a towel in the driveway for an hour and is almost too hot to touch. in the winter, I sometimes use the compressor to blow out my rifle cases, but otherwise, an hour on the towel in the driveway gets 'em bone dry. I still tend to tumble one day, and load the next, just in case. I use a small amount of dish soap (whatever the wife has on hand), a 9mm case full of lemishine, and a gallon of COLD water. it works fine for me.

11-13-2012, 10:48 PM	#21
Dog Soldier V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Great Desert Posts: 154	Re: First batch of clean brass - I'm impressed I clean the ID of case necks. The neck holds the bullet. The clean neck is as important as having clean bullets. I would not want carbon covered bullets. The very fact that fouling is not laid down even in the neck is another reason to clean the neck IDs. In all cases lube should be removed from the necks with a 92% low water base alcohol. The clean surface of the neck and bullet produce positive friction. During anealing with a torch set the cases in a pan of water. The surface of the water should contact the case not more than a 1/4" below the shoulder. The tip of the torch should turn the case neck an even cherry red. When the neck is hot tip it into the water. There are many ways to soften brass. Check hot lead aneal and oven aneal both allow for constant readable results.