Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun - The Firearms Forum

Kranky · 12-09-2012, 12:50 AM

Greetings

Please help me identify this shotgun. I have taken a bunch of pictures.
A gun shop owner of 35 years couldn't id this gun because it was too old.
I took pictures with some glare on purpose in some cases to make the markings
stand out. The gun belongs to my neighbor who's a WWII vet. He's interested in selling it.

Here's all the markings I can make out from looking at it:

MANUFACTURED BY THE
WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS CO.
- NEW HAVEN CONN. U.S.A. -
PAT FEB. 16 & JULY 20 1886

SERIAL # 48619

One side of the gun has a design with R A 0(zero) in the middle of a circle covered by a large cursive W

You can clearly see all of this in the photos below.

If you can ID the gun and give an approximate value and
maybe a place to sell the gun in the Seattle Area you'd be helping a Vet. Thanks!

Anchor Clanker · 12-09-2012, 02:03 AM

The gun is a Winchester Model 1887 Lever Action Shotgun. It was made in 10 or 12 gauges with a four shot magazine, 30 or 32 inch full choke fluid steel barrel, plain pistol grip stock. First Browning patent shotgun manufactured by Winchester, first lever action shotgun manufactures domestically. Made 1887 to 1901. Approximately 64,855 were made. Serial number 48.619 made in 1893. Values given in the Blue Book are:
100%-$3,850, 98%-$3,300,,95%-$2,995, 90%-$2,650, 80%-$2,200, 70%-$1,875, 60%-$1,325, 50%-$1,100, 40%-$900, 30%-$775, 20%-$775 and10%-$695.
Percentage figures are for the remaining original finish on the metal and wood and assume the gun is in a safe mechanical condition for shooting. The values or for retail values.The gun was designed and made to shoot 2 1/2 inch shot shells loaded with black powder, and lead shot. It was not designed for longer, 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 inch shells loaded with smokeless powder, steel shot or slugs and certainly not 3 inch magnum shells loaded with high pressure smokeless powder. As to selling the gun, no gun dealer will pay these valued. They will pay only about 40% to 60 % of the retail value. Remember they are in business to make a profit. The photographs are not sufficient to make an evaluation of the gun. Someone well qualified will have to make a hands on evaluation. I suggest you take the gun to an Appraiser (look in the telephone yellow pages for them) but don't go to a flea market type, a gun dealer or shop or a good gunsmith for an appraisal. A good appraiser will give you a written appraisal but he may charge for the service. To sell the gun it can be consigned to a gun auction house for sale or you can place it on one of the gun auction sites (there are several on the internet) for auction.

Bert H. · 12-09-2012, 03:22 AM

Hello,

As mentioned by Anchor Clankor, it is a Model 1887. The serial number tells me that it was manufactured in November of 1892.

The pictures you posted show that it has been refinished (a long time ago). As it was originally made, the receiver frame, lever, and hammer were case color hardened (they are now blued).

Also as mentioned, the Model 1887 was made in 12 and 10 gauge (and it will be marked on the top of the barrel near the receiver frame). The 12-gauge guns were chambered for a 2-5/8" shell, and the 10-gauge guns for a 2-7/8" shell, black powder only.

The value of the gun is approximately $750 - $900.

Bert H.

Goody · 12-09-2012, 05:55 AM

Thought you might like to see one in action. They have a small following in Cowboy Action Shooting. There are some repros being made, shown here being run by one of the top proponents of their ilk. Hope you enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47nWth0kRS8

Hawg · 12-09-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kranky

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="6"]Greetings

One side of the gun has a design with R A 0(zero) in the middle of a circle covered by a large cursive W

The circle is actually the C in Co. The zero is the o in Co. Its W R A Co stacked

RJay · 12-09-2012, 10:36 AM

Just on a side note, If a gun shop owner of 35 years couldn't identify this shotgun, well, I know not what you would do, but as for me, I would never darken his door again.

Alpo · 12-09-2012, 12:00 PM

I don't know, Ron. Shop I used to live at, I was the "old gun guy". Man that owned it was up on machine guns. Knew about Glocks and other plastic-fantastic. Pretty good on Smith HEs. Knew all there was to know about EBRs. But if it was a single action, or a lever, or anything made before about the 30s, if I was there I got called over for a consultation. Because "older guns" was not his thing.

But, by the same token, if I was behind the counter and someone had a question about black guns or plastic guns, I had to call somebody else over, 'cause I don't know about them.

People can't know everything about everything.

sting75ray · 12-09-2012, 12:17 PM

The owner of the local gunshop in my hometown has one of these hanging on the wall. I have asked him several times if he would sell it. I always get the same answer.

Kranky · 12-10-2012, 07:34 PM

Thanks Much for the help. We will be taking it to an appraiser

Jim K · 12-11-2012, 02:25 AM

I don't know what the Chiappa "two shot fast load system" is, but AFAIK Winchester didn't have it.

Jim

Goody · 12-11-2012, 06:09 AM

Your right, Jim. For shooting the 87 in competition smiths will alter them somehow to allow you to take two shells and put them into the breech area, stacked. When you close the action one is inserted into the barrel, the other into the mag. Chiappa has merely done that at the factory to accomodate their main market for this replica.

12-09-2012, 12:50 AM	#1
Kranky Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2	Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Greetings Please help me identify this shotgun. I have taken a bunch of pictures. A gun shop owner of 35 years couldn't id this gun because it was too old. I took pictures with some glare on purpose in some cases to make the markings stand out. The gun belongs to my neighbor who's a WWII vet. He's interested in selling it. Here's all the markings I can make out from looking at it: MANUFACTURED BY THE WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS CO. - NEW HAVEN CONN. U.S.A. - PAT FEB. 16 & JULY 20 1886 SERIAL # 48619 One side of the gun has a design with R A 0(zero) in the middle of a circle covered by a large cursive W You can clearly see all of this in the photos below. If you can ID the gun and give an approximate value and maybe a place to sell the gun in the Seattle Area you'd be helping a Vet. Thanks! -->

12-09-2012, 02:03 AM	#2
Anchor Clanker V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vacaville,California Posts: 197	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun The gun is a Winchester Model 1887 Lever Action Shotgun. It was made in 10 or 12 gauges with a four shot magazine, 30 or 32 inch full choke fluid steel barrel, plain pistol grip stock. First Browning patent shotgun manufactured by Winchester, first lever action shotgun manufactures domestically. Made 1887 to 1901. Approximately 64,855 were made. Serial number 48.619 made in 1893. Values given in the Blue Book are: 100%-$3,850, 98%-$3,300,,95%-$2,995, 90%-$2,650, 80%-$2,200, 70%-$1,875, 60%-$1,325, 50%-$1,100, 40%-$900, 30%-$775, 20%-$775 and10%-$695. Percentage figures are for the remaining original finish on the metal and wood and assume the gun is in a safe mechanical condition for shooting. The values or for retail values.The gun was designed and made to shoot 2 1/2 inch shot shells loaded with black powder, and lead shot. It was not designed for longer, 2 9/16 or 2 3/4 inch shells loaded with smokeless powder, steel shot or slugs and certainly not 3 inch magnum shells loaded with high pressure smokeless powder. As to selling the gun, no gun dealer will pay these valued. They will pay only about 40% to 60 % of the retail value. Remember they are in business to make a profit. The photographs are not sufficient to make an evaluation of the gun. Someone well qualified will have to make a hands on evaluation. I suggest you take the gun to an Appraiser (look in the telephone yellow pages for them) but don't go to a flea market type, a gun dealer or shop or a good gunsmith for an appraisal. A good appraiser will give you a written appraisal but he may charge for the service. To sell the gun it can be consigned to a gun auction house for sale or you can place it on one of the gun auction sites (there are several on the internet) for auction.

12-09-2012, 03:22 AM	#3
Bert H. V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington State (Puget Sound Region) Posts: 418	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Hello, As mentioned by Anchor Clankor, it is a Model 1887. The serial number tells me that it was manufactured in November of 1892. The pictures you posted show that it has been refinished (a long time ago). As it was originally made, the receiver frame, lever, and hammer were case color hardened (they are now blued). Also as mentioned, the Model 1887 was made in 12 and 10 gauge (and it will be marked on the top of the barrel near the receiver frame). The 12-gauge guns were chambered for a 2-5/8" shell, and the 10-gauge guns for a 2-7/8" shell, black powder only. The value of the gun is approximately $750 - $900. Bert H. __________________ Real Men own and shoot a Winchester SINGLE-SHOT!

12-09-2012, 05:55 AM	#4
Goody V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 333	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Thought you might like to see one in action. They have a small following in Cowboy Action Shooting. There are some repros being made, shown here being run by one of the top proponents of their ilk. Hope you enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47nWth0kRS8

12-09-2012, 10:36 AM	#6
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,504	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Just on a side note, If a gun shop owner of 35 years couldn't identify this shotgun, well, I know not what you would do, but as for me, I would never darken his door again. __________________ RonJames

12-09-2012, 12:00 PM	#7
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,772	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun I don't know, Ron. Shop I used to live at, I was the "old gun guy". Man that owned it was up on machine guns. Knew about Glocks and other plastic-fantastic. Pretty good on Smith HEs. Knew all there was to know about EBRs. But if it was a single action, or a lever, or anything made before about the 30s, if I was there I got called over for a consultation. Because "older guns" was not his thing. But, by the same token, if I was behind the counter and someone had a question about black guns or plastic guns, I had to call somebody else over, 'cause I don't know about them. People can't know everything about everything. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-09-2012, 12:17 PM	#8
sting75ray Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,093	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun The owner of the local gunshop in my hometown has one of these hanging on the wall. I have asked him several times if he would sell it. I always get the same answer. __________________ [IMG][/IMG]

12-10-2012, 07:34 PM	#9
Kranky Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Thanks Much for the help. We will be taking it to an appraiser

12-11-2012, 02:25 AM	#10
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun I don't know what the Chiappa "two shot fast load system" is, but AFAIK Winchester didn't have it. Jim

12-11-2012, 06:09 AM	#11
Goody V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 333	Re: Help ID this old WRAC Shotgun Your right, Jim. For shooting the 87 in competition smiths will alter them somehow to allow you to take two shells and put them into the breech area, stacked. When you close the action one is inserted into the barrel, the other into the mag. Chiappa has merely done that at the factory to accomodate their main market for this replica.