Disturbing

[dcd_enterprises]

The Jihad Candidate
by Rich Carroll



Conspiracy theories make for interesting novels when the storyline is not so absurd that it can grasp our attention. 'The Manchurian Candidate' and 'Seven Days in May' are examples of plausible chains of events that captures the reader's imagination at best-seller level. 'What if' has always been the solid grist of fiction.
Get yourself something cool to drink, find a relaxing position, but before you continue, visualize the television photos of two jet airliners smashing into the Twin Towers in lower Manhattan and remind yourself this cowardly act of Muslim terror was planned for eight years.

How long did it take Islam and their oil money to find a candidate for President of the United States? As long as it took them to place a Senator from Illinois and Minnesota? The same amount of time to create a large Muslim enclave in Detroit? The time it took them to build over 2,000 mosques in America? The same amount of time required to place radical wahabbist clerics in our military and prisons as 'chaplains'?
Find a candidate who can get away with lying about their father being a 'freedom fighter' when he was actually part of the most corrupt and violent government in Kenya's history. Find a candidate with close ties to The Nation of Islam and the violent Muslim overthrow in Africa, a candidate who is educated among white infidel Americans but hides his bitterness and anger behind a superficial toothy smile. Find a candidate who changes his American name of Barry to the Muslim name of Barak Hussein Obama, and dares anyone to question his true ties under the banner of 'racism'. Nurture this candidate in an atmosphere of anti-white American teaching and surround him with Islamic teachers. Provide him with a bitter, racist, anti-white, anti-American wife, and supply him with Muslim middle east connections and Islamic monies. Allow him to be clever enough to get away with his anti-white rhetoric and proclaim he will give $834 billion taxpayer dollars to the Muslim controlled United Nations for use in Africa.

Install your candidate in an atmosphere of deception because questioning him on any issue involving Africa or Islam would be seen as 'bigoted racism'; two words too powerful to allow the citizenry to be informed of facts. Allow your candidate to employ several black racist Nation of Islam Louis Farrakhan followers as members of his Illinois Senatorial and campaign staffs.

Where is the bloodhound American 'free press' who doggedly overturned every stone in the Watergate case? Where are our nation's reporters that have placed every Presidential candidate under the microscope of detailed scrutiny; the same press who pursue Bush's 'Skull and Bones' club or ran other candidates off with persistent detective and research work? Why haven't 'newsmen' pursued the 65 blatant lies told by this candidate during the Presidential primaries? Where are the stories about this candidate's cousin and the Muslim butchery in Africa? Since when did our national press corps become weak, timid, and silent? Why haven't they regaled us with the long list of socialists and communists who have surrounded this 'out of nowhere' Democrat candidate or that his church re-printed the Hamas Manifesto in their bulletin, and that his 'close pastor friend and mentor' met with Middle East terrorist Moammar Gaddafi, (Guide of the First of September Great Revolution of the Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya)? Why isn't the American press telling us this candidate is supported by every Muslim organization in the world?

As an ultimate slap in the face, be blatant in the fact your candidate has ZERO interest in traditional American values and has the most liberal voting record in U.S. Senate history. Why has the American main stream media clammed-up on any negative reporting on Barak Hussein Obama? Why will they print Hillary Rodham Clinton's name but never write his middle name? Is it not his name? Why, suddenly, is ANY information about this candidate not coming from main stream media, but from the blogosphere by citizens seeking facts and the truth? Why isn't our media connecting the dots with Islam? Why do they focus on 'those bad American soldiers' while Islam slaughters non Muslims daily in 44 countries around the globe? Why does our media refer to Darfur as 'ethnic cleansing' instead of what it really is; Muslims killing non- Muslims! There is enough strange, anti- American activity surrounding Barak Hussein Obama to pique the curiosity of any reporter. WHERE IS OUR INVESTIGATIVE MEDIA!?

A formal plan for targeting America was devised three years after the Iranian revolution in 1982. The plan was summarized in a 1991 memorandum by Mohamed Akram, an operative of the global Muslim Brotherhood. 'The process of settlement' of Muslims in America, Akram explained, 'is a civilization jihad process.' This means that members of the Brotherhood must understand that their work in 'America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and sabotaging its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions.'

There is terrorism we can see, smell and fear, but there is a new kind of terror invading The United States in the form of Sharia law and finance. Condoning it is civilization suicide. Middle East Muslims are coming to America in record numbers and building hate infidel mosques, buying our corporations, suing us for our traditions, Where is our investigative press? Any criticism of Islam or their intentions, even though Islamic leaders state their intentions daily around the globe, brings forth a volley of 'racist' from the left-wing Democrat crowd.
Lies and deception behind a master plan - the ingredients for 'The Manchurian Candidate', or the placement of an anti-American President in our nation's White House? Is it mere coincidence that an anti-capitalist run for President at the same time Islamic sharia finance and law is trying to make advancing strides into the United States? Is it mere coincidence this same candidate wants to disarm our nuclear capability at a time when terrorist Muslim nations are expanding their nuclear weapons capability? Is it mere coincidence this candidate wants to reduce our military at a time of global jihad from Muslim nations?

Change for America?
What change?
To become another 'nation of Islam'? What the Hell is wrong with the people in this country that they would even think about voting for this guy?? Are they ostriches with their heads in the sand??

[CampingJosh]

I have this feeling--call it a sixth sense, if you will--that this thread will attract a troll.

[h2oking]

I don't know that you have all your facts correct meaning I really don't know. However, you articulated your position very well and it is very informative reading. In my opinion you come off with true passion of your convictions and NOT like some antagonistic fool. It is really too bad more people don't pay more attention to what is going on, instead they are like sheep. That 834 billion dollars for the UN if true should cause rioting in the streets all over America. I am going to try too substantiate that. Keep it coming.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

I have this feeling--call it a sixth sense, if you will--that this thread will attract a troll.

Come on Alva, you can do it.

What a peice DCD. Where does Mr. Carrol usually post his work at?

So where are those questions being asked at, and what are the answers? Are we ever going to find out the answers even if he doesn't get elected?

[ponycar17]

I wasn't able to read all of it because my tinfoil hat kept sliding down over my eyes...

Nah, I don't think there's a conspiracy going on. Rather, I think Obama's nomination is another instance where the power of dumb people in large numbers should not be underestimated.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by ponycar17

the power of dumb people in large numbers should not be underestimated.

Agreed

[Marlin T]

No tinfoil hat needed. The big deal is where are the answers to the very legitimate questions asked above.

I can tell you from cruising around the world reading what I do, there isn’t much that is speculation in the piece that Mr Carroll wrote.

To find out a little history about the Muslim Brotherhood and their agenda, read >>>THIS<<< If you haven’t been up on the news, the Muslim Brotherhood is making allies all the time. This includes people that are already in the United States. >>>*<<<

So in my opinion, the media is slacking to say the least, and the questions in the article above should be cleared up.

Shoot, he (Obama) still hasn’t given the proof that he is eligible to run for the office of President.

[obxned]

I'm not sure it is one big conspiracy. It seems more like an unfortunate combination of conspiracy, stupidity, and mass hysteria fostered by the press.

Either way, our country is in big trouble!

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by Marlin T

Come on Alva, you can do it.

What a peice DCD. Where does Mr. Carrol usually post his work at?

So where are those questions being asked at, and what are the answers? Are we ever going to find out the answers even if he doesn't get elected?

http://www.chronwatch-america.com/bl...Candidate.html

[Marlin T]

Thank you very much.

[dcd_enterprises]

Man,
I struck a nerve with this one.
I forwarded this to my Liberal cousin. Reply:

I have to admit the email you forwarded to my mother concerned me. Like many “blog” attacks these days, its claims seemed to contain broad strokes with few specifics based on even fewer/no/made-up “facts”. I’m critical of the messages sent from both sides of the political aisle, especially when their primary message seems to be fear and empty rhetoric. My hope is that you will continue to read and at least consider another viewpoint from the message you passed along.

The Audacity of Hope relates the advice the longest-serving Senator in Congress Robert C. Byrd (WV) gave to new Sen. Barack Obama: reread the United States Constitution. This is not a document Sen. Obama would be unfamiliar with, as he had taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago, one of the finest legal education institutions in the country. Contained in that document, even before the right to bear arms in order to maintain a well regulated militia, is this portion of Amendment 1 in The Bill of Rights: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” The author of the email you forwarded apparently has forgotten that there is a huge difference between radical, “Islamic fundamentalists” and a majority of the people adhering to the Muslim faith around the world. The words of the Organization of the Islamic Conference after the September 11 attacks were echoed by leading Islamic scholars around the world, "These terrorist acts contradict the teaching of all religions and human and moral values." According to the CIA, there are at least 2,000,000 American citizens identifying themselves as Muslims (although some estimates place the total at several times that number-suddenly 2,000 mosques aren’t suspicious-they’re places for decently sized congregations). As citizens, Muslims are allowed to worship as they see fit, and for the vast majority that means following the five pillars of Islam: belief in one God, belief in prayer, concern for the needy, self-purification, and an act of pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Like Christian Americans who believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; pray; give offerings to support their church and community; purify through sacrifice during Lent; and may journey to important Biblical sites, they have a right to pursuit their life freely as law-abiding citizens of this country.

So what does all this talk of Muslims have to do with Sen. Barack Obama? Absolutely nothing. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and never attended a radical madrassa. After he attended Harvard Law School with the help of student loans and scholarships, he worked on behalf of unemployed steel workers on the south side of Chicago. While there, he happened upon the Trinity United Church of Christ. He joined Trinity as a member, and it was at Trinity that he married his wife Michelle. The United Church of Christ is a denomination that was formed out of the Evangelical and Reformed Churches and The Congregational Christian Churches (which trace their lineage back to the Puritans); it has a rich history of social justice and its predecessor was the denomination Elsie Dickel’s husband, my grandfather Rev. Emil Burrichter served. For more information on the UCC, please go to http://www.ucc.org/about-us/short-course/.

So, how could the journalist Richard Carroll get the facts wrong about Senator Obama’s past? Well, he’s not a journalist. He’s the founder of a religious right website called www.rememberthycreator.com. While different religious denominations vary in the education requirements for their clergy, Mr. Carroll has neither Rev. nor Dr. preceding his name indicating no advanced study in theology. According to the site, they are “pointing people to Christ by upholding the authority of God’s Word from the very first verse with an emphasis on Genesis Chapters 1 through 11” (you know, the magic act to start the world and the big flood with all the animals in the big boat?-that’s the focal point of his faith system). Mr. Carroll has penned such impartial articles as “Florida: Islam’s Beach-head”, “The Putrid Stench of Liberal Cowardice Will Define Our Future”, and “The World According to Convoluted Dip Wads”. This is not a person that grasps the idea of unbiased reporting, which I find odd considering people of faith are not supposed to bear false witness.

Mr. Carroll spends a lot of time focusing on Senator Obama’s name, especially his middle name Hussein. He accuses the Senator of changing his name. He didn’t. He’s named after his father, Barack Hussein Obama; it’s on his birth certificate. Apparently, the father Senator Obama remembers meeting once liked the idea of naming his son after him-like George Bush liked naming his son after himself. Of course, there are other reasons that people use to name their child. My name is Timothy; Timothy was a Biblical convert of Paul and the name means “God’s honor”. The name “Barack” means “blessed” and its western equivalents by definition are Ben, Benedict, and Asher. “Hussein” means “handsome, or good looking”; its western equivalents are Alan, Kenny, and Beau. So, a parent wanted to name a child after his father with names meaning “blessed” and “handsome”. While certain fear-mongers like to highlight Sen. Obama’s middle name trying to manufacture a connection to the Iraqi dictator, Barack was born in 1961, Sadaam didn’t participate in the coup until 1968 and didn’t lead Iraq until 1979. The only connection Senator Obama has to the Hussein name is his father, who was an absentee father.

The people of Africa are prominently featured in the crosshairs of Mr. Carroll’s attack. He is outraged about how the media has covered the genocide tragedy in Darfur, but he failed to mention that Senator Obama cosponsored the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act in May 2008. In 2007, The Genocide Intervention Network assigned Senator Obama a grade of A based on voting records, bill sponsorship and other activities related to ending the genocide in Darfur. I am outraged that Mr. Carroll, this so-called man of faith would try to link the media’s reporting “failures” to Obama’s middle name “controversy” while ignoring the work this Senator has already done on behalf of the people of Darfur! I agree with Mr. Carroll that “ethnic cleansing” is a horrible euphemism for genocide, but I find his description to be transparent and disturbing: “Muslims killing non-Muslims”. He doesn’t seem to be outraged that genocide was called ethnic cleansing when Muslims were being killed in Bosnia or Georgians in Abkhazia. As a purported man of faith, shouldn’t he be upset when any innocent people are killed?


While the atrocities in Darfur are apparent, there are even greater catastrophes that devastate the continent everyday. Every 15 seconds, a child dies from a disease connected to the lack of access to clean water. 16,000 lives are lost per day as a consequence of TB, Malaria, and HIV/AIDS. These factors combined with crushing personal and systemic poverty have created volatile conflicts within the continent. In September of 2000, The United States joined 188 countries in a commitment to the United Nations Millennium Declaration to combat the economic arm of these problems worldwide. In 2005, George W. Bush and other leaders of G8 countries (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia, The United Kingdom and The United States of America) pledged 50 billion dollars in aid. During his 2008 State of the Union Address, President Bush called for an additional 30 billion dollars in American aid over the next five years to combat the HIV/AIDS crisis in Africa. It’s not money for Muslim extremists in Africa, it’s money for people that are being ravaged by hunger, thirst, and disease. Unfortunately, as with many political promises on both sides, the follow through is missing. As of 2007, only ten percent of the relief money promised by the G8 countries had actually been released. Senator Obama’s stated commitment to African aid is an increase of funding from 25 billion to 50 billion dollars to help fulfill our commitment and achieve the goals of the Millennium Declaration. The numbers Mr. Carroll uses are astronomical even when discussing the world’s commitment to stop the devastation in Africa. To be sure, that is an astounding commitment of resources, but how does it compare to the 2 trillion dollars Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz estimates the United States will spend on the war in Iraq? While we have suffered terrible losses there, they are nowhere close to 16,000 lives lost per day in Africa to disease alone.


Even if the situation in Africa was not so dire, there is another important reason not to demonize countries that we disagree with on ideological terms. The RAND Corporation is a Washington research group that reports on issues of national and global policy. In a recent report on Terrorism and Homeland Security, they quoted al Qa’ida expert Peter Bergin, “Making a world of enemies is never a winning strategy.” The report goes on to explain that a majority of world terrorist organizations tracked since 1968 have ended by being absorbed into the political process or through the diligence of local policing efforts. Military force has not been a successful factor in either stopping a terrorist organization, or for that organization to achieve its goals. International diplomacy has a significantly better track record in achieving results for all concerned parties.



The stakes are high in this election year and so is the rhetoric. When Rich Carroll suggests that Senator Obama has “zero interest in traditional American values” that should raise some concern that this man may be prone to hyperbole. Consider these rankings for Sen. Obama by various voting groups:
2006 The Children's Defense Fund gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The American Academy of Family Physicians gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The Association of University Centers on Disabilites gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 The American Public Health Association gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 The American Academy of Emergency Medicine gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 The American Nurses Association gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 Disabled American Veterans gave Obama a rating of 80 percent.
2006 The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Obama a grade of B+.
2007 The National Education Association gave Senator Obama a grade of A.
2007 The Association For Supervision and Curriculum Development gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The National Association for College Admission Counseling gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The Alliance for Retired Americans gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 Business and Professional Women USA gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 Federally Employed Women gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The League of Women Voters's gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The Utility Workers Union of America gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2007 The AFL-CIO gave Obama a rating of 100 percent..
2008 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Senator Obama a grade of A.
2008 Environment America gave Obama a rating of 90 percent.
2006 The American Wind Energy Association gave Obama a rating of 100 percent.
2006 The League of Conservation Voters 100 percent in 2006.
2007 The Leadership Conference on Civil Rights gave Obama a rating of 85 percent.

These ratings were based on voting records of Senator Obama tracked by the nonpartisan group votesmart.org if you click on the groups above, you should be able to see their rankings for all Senators in Congress. Certainly these groups have agendas, just like all people have things they want from their government, but surely some of the views of all Americans can be found somewhere in the organizations listed above. It is tough, maybe impossible, to find sources that are unbiased these days. It is our duty as Americans to be an educated electorate and to be critical when a sweeping claim like “he’s the most liberal member of Congress” is levied against a candidate by people like longtime Republican stalwarts Karl Rove and Pat Buchanan. One of the outlets distributing that “information” is the National Journal Group, an organization that claims on its website that it “is uniquely positioned to help corporations, trade associations, and advocacy groups reach Washington's decision makers.” I don’t know about you, but I think corporations, special interest groups, and their money have been reaching the candidates far too long. If we don’t stop listening to and repeating mindless attacks, we will continue to be a hopelessly divided nation focusing on our differences instead of concentrating on our common strengths with a will to move forward.

I thank you for your time.

I don't even know where to start

[Marlin T]

five pillars of Islam? He talks like that is a good thing, ha!

Make sure to read the Koran and what it says about it’s “pillars” (Make to read the footnote at the bottom of the page)
Maybe you could send him this, Jihad, Islamism, and the Challenge of Anti-Freedom Ideologies

Constitutional lawyer he said? It seems to me that he must have bribed his teachers to give him a passing grade, because his actions show that he knows very little about the Constitution.

He has never been a Muslim, was not raised as a Muslim, and

This is just plain false as proved by the simplest of facts, his name change from Barry to Barak. Not to mention other documents that have stated that he IS muslim, at least at the time the documents were written.

While there, he happened upon the Trinity United Church of Christ.

Happened upon? No, his involvement with those of the radical view points are just now coming to light. If you could get this guy to listen to this one hour interview with Mr. Kurtz he might raise an eyebrow. The interview can he heard >>>here<<<.
I also heard Bill O Reilly say that he was going to do a 25 part (or something like that.) investigative series on the same thing Kurtz is doing. Obama IS a radical but has not had his beliefs exposed, YET.

DCD, if somebody doesn’t say that the RAND organization is a liberal think tank, they are either so liberal that they can’t see it, or just as dishonest as the RAND org, or ignorant. And this guy doesn’t seem like a stupid man.

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by Marlin T

five pillars of Islam? He talks like that is a good thing, ha!

Make sure to read the Koran and what it says about it’s “pillars” (Make to read the footnote at the bottom of the page)
Maybe you could send him this, Jihad, Islamism, and the Challenge of Anti-Freedom Ideologies

Constitutional lawyer he said? It seems to me that he must have bribed his teachers to give him a passing grade, because his actions show that he knows very little about the Constitution.



This is just plain false as proved by the simplest of facts, his name change from Barry to Barak. Not to mention other documents that have stated that he IS muslim, at least at the time the documents were written.



Happened upon? No, his involvement with those of the radical view points are just now coming to light. If you could get this guy to listen to this one hour interview with Mr. Kurtz he might raise an eyebrow. The interview can he heard >>>here<<<.
I also heard Bill O Reilly say that he was going to do a 25 part (or something like that.) investigative series on the same thing Kurtz is doing. Obama IS a radical but has not had his beliefs exposed, YET.

DCD, if somebody doesn’t say that the RAND organization is a liberal think tank, they are either so liberal that they can’t see it, or just as dishonest as the RAND org, or ignorant. And this guy doesn’t seem like a stupid man.

Marlin T,

I sent him most of your reply there. His response:

Daniel,

Thank you for at least suggesting that I'm not stupid. I do take issue with being labeled as dishonest. The point of my email was to try to get past the labels and ill-conceived attacks by misinformed agenda-driven bloggers. All viewpoints are biased by definition, but there is a difference between the commentary of Keith Olberman (Liberal)/Bill O'Reilly (Conservative) and news.

Thirty contributors to The RAND Corporation have been awarded a Nobel Prize over the course of their careers, including Henry Kissinger, the 56th Secretary of State. Say what you will about their policies, but you should not discount the intelligence and the hard work of the people who contribute their energy to giving their best advice to the country's future. The contributors to the counter terrorism blog you reference do have some impressive credentials, but I have to say author Jeffrey Imm's reference of Wikipedia as a source for his Islam definition left me disappointed.

Many denominations of religions refer to their way as the one true path, condemning others to a horrible fate. Many of these faiths have been used to justify horrible things: crusades, inquisitions, slavery, appeasement, and genocide. Christians are certainly not excluded from this tragic history. As you correctly clarified, we can not blame all Muslims for the work of extremists.

The footnote you presented about jihad does use the word pillar, but it is not one of the pillars of Islam, the basic beliefs. If you read book 2, verse 190 it states, "fight in the Way of Allah [God] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits". That is the translated Quran text and an overwhelming number of Islamic scholars stated that the acts of 9/11 were an abomination of the Islamic faith. The taking of innocent lives is forbidden. As far as the footnote is concerned, footnotes are interpretations and clarifications provided by editors. Depending on the denomination, you will find markedly different interpretations of sections of the Biblical texts. I can not identify which Quran text that site is using, but I can say jihad is not a term solely reserved for external conflicts, but for battling inner turmoil also. If people are are using their faith to help themselves and their community/world, I applaud it; if people are are using their faith to cause fear and destroy others, I renounce it. I don't care what symbol is in the doorway.

Sen. Obama academically earned his way into the Princeton undergraduate program, then the Harvard Law Program. He went through these programs with the help of student loans and scholarships. Princeton and Harvard are among the finest academic institutions in the country, educating eight presidents in their history. Sen. Obama taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago. University of Chicago graduates have earned 26 Nobel Prizes, and served in numerous government positions. It does not distribute it's teaching positions lightly. Intelligently disagreeing with someone's political position and making libelous claims are extremely different things. I would hope for more of the former in this election season.

As a teacher, I have seen many students "change their names" with no nefarious plots behind the switch: Esteban becomes "Steve", Jastrzebski becomes "Jub", Wojciechowski becomes "Woj". Sometimes it's because it's easier for others to say, sometimes it's because it's easier for others to spell, sometimes students tire of explaining it, sometimes students get a nickname that sticks, and sometimes students get picked on because their names are different from what their classmates are used to hearing. I don't pretend to know what generated the name Barry in Barack's youth, but I do know the name on his birth certificate is Barack Hussein Obama, after his father. Here's a link to a copy of it: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ama-birth.html. Some people called me "Timmy" when I was little. When I correspond with people now, I use my legal name Timothy. I have had at least a dozen nicknames in my life, but I have always been Tim at my core. It's one thing to disagree with a candidate's stances, but conflating a nickname with a terror plot seems to stretch the bounds of decency.

It was my mistake to use the casual phrase, "happened upon" in describing Sen. Obama's decision to join Trinity United Church of Christ. Through the connections he made with the economically devastated families on the south side of Chicago, he found out about, visited and decided to join Trinity UCC. While I was concerned with the comments now-retired minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright made and were later renounced by Senator Obama; I applaud that churches overall work in serving a community with diverse challenges especially is the outreach areas of education, counseling, career development, medical access, human rights, and legal assistance; services that are frequently scare or out of reach of the less fortunate members of our society. While the member congregations of the United Church of Christ may vary in their leanings, the church's historic commitment to social justice is the thing of which I am most proud. Highlights include:

Human Rights for Women:

In 1853, Antoinette Brown was the first woman since New Testament times to be ordained as a Christian minister, and elected to serve a Christian congregation as pastor.
In 1889, Hartford Seminary in Connecticut is the first in the nation to admit women into regular classes, training them for work in education and missions. http://www.hartsem.edu/about/history.htm
In 1995, The New Century Hymnal, the only hymnal released by a Christian church that honors in equal measure both male and female images of God; is published by The United Church of Christ.
Human Rights for Americans with Disabilities:
In 1817, Rev. Thomas Gallaudet opened the Connecticut Asylum for the Education of Deaf and Dumb Persons. In 1856, a national school for the deaf, later bearing Gallaudet’s name, opened in Washington, D.C. 1977: Born without arms, Harold H. Wilke became the first leader of national UCC disabilities ministries. He served as pastor, author, denominational executive, activist, and advocate for persons with disabilities. Wilke was present when President George H.W. Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act, and accepted a signing pen with his left foot.
Human Rights for African Americans:

By 1700, Congregationalist Samuel Sewell had already written the groundbreaking anti-slavery pamphlet, “The Selling of Joseph.”

In 1773, Phillis Wheatley, a member of the Old South congregation publishes “Poems on Various Subjects”; and becomes the first published African American author.
In 1785, Lemuel Haynes starts his career as the first African American ordained by a Protestant denomination.
In 1839, forefathers of the United Church of Christ were among those who organized to free the passengers of the slave ship Amistad. Eventually, The Supreme Court ruled the captives were not property, and the Africans regained their freedom.
“In 1846 Lewis Tappan, one of the Amistad organizers, organizes the American Missionary Association—the first anti-slavery society in the U.S. with multiracial leadership. It unites Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Methodists and other Christians.”
In 1858, twenty residents of the Oberlin, Ohio community including members of the First Congregational Church and students from the (Congregationalist founded) Oberlin College are jailed for violating the Fugitive Slave Law.
In 1959, Martin Luther King Jr. asked the United Church of Christ to intercede on behalf of the growing civil rights movement as southern television stations denied news broadcasts of protests. Legal action organized by the UCC lead to a Federal ruling declaring that the airwaves were public property.
In 1960; Albert Lutuli, a leader of United Congregational Church of South Africa; was honored by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee for his non-violent protest campaign. He opposed the apartheid policies until his death in 1967.
In 1976, Rev. Joseph H. Evans was elected president of the United Church of Christ, the first African American leader of a large, racially-integrated denomination in the United States.

It is a shame that after being browbeaten by the media and his opponents, that Sen. Obama felt compelled to leave his congregation based on what somebody else said. Based on a few sound bytes looped and played ad nauseam, the good works of a congregation, denomination, and all their members were maligned.

It is obvious that we gravitate to different regions of the political sphere, and it's perfectly acceptable to disagree. This is America, and a right to hold our beliefs is sacred. Informed debate makes the country strong; but if we perpetuate an atmosphere of attack politics based on conspiracy, speculation, and slanders, how can we come together as a nation and work on the problems that effect us? Is the system so irrevocably broken that we are reduced to taking pot shots at each side?

In this case, I would like to agree to disagree with positions you have forwarded, and thank you for at least reading my responses.

Peace,

Tim

[dcd_enterprises]

I separated it, point by point, and here's what I sent him back.

Daniel,
>
> Thank you for at least suggesting that I'm not stupid. I do take issue with being labeled as dishonest.

I don't think you are being intentionally dishonest, I simply think you are following someone so blindly that you are lying to yourself to see the "Messiah" Obama elected. After all he's for change. What change? Joe Bieden for VP?! 'I'm for change and outside the beltway politics, so I'll pick for my running-mate one of the few men who has been in the senate longer than McCain. After all, he has foreign policy experience that I lack, never mind that he is consistently wrong on foreign policy, he has experience.

I have never been a supporter of McCain. He was almost the worst candidate running that the Repblicans could have chosen, and this was the first Presidential election since I as of voting age I intended to not vote for President. His choice of Sarah Palin for a VP nominee has secured my vote. This woman truly does define outside the beltway politics, and what she lacks in experience is made up for in Character. She is a lifetime NRA member, Mother of 5, consistently and fervently Pro-Life, and a devout Christian.

The point of my email was to try to get past the labels and ill-conceived attacks by misinformed agenda-driven bloggers.

You say agenda driven as though it is a bad thing. Everybody is agenda driven. The drive-by main-stream media is so in the tank for Obama that it is nauseating. Openly giving standing ovation at his convention, and then purporting to be objective. I would much prefer to receive the news from a Keith Olberman or a Bill O'Reilly. I know where their biases are. They are open about them. FoxNews at least presents both sides. Admittedly, I want to choke Alan Combs nearly every time he opens his mouth, but both sides are there.

All viewpoints are biased by definition, but there is a difference between the commentary of Keith Olberman (Liberal)/Bill O'Reilly (Conservative) and news.
>
> Thirty contributors to The RAND Corporation have been awarded a Nobel Prize over the course of their careers, including Henry Kissinger, the 56th Secretary of State.

And this discounts them from being liberal? The Nobel Prize Foundation is NOT Conservative by any stretch, and any organization that does not maintain Conservative values will ultimately become liberal. They just gave a Nobel Prize to Al Gore. Man Made Global Warming is the biggest farce to be foisted upon the American People, Ever. The entire desert SW used to be an Ocean. There are fossils of tropical plants and wildlife here in Iowa. I guess man brought about the ice ages and global warming then, too. Please. The home of the communists since the fall of the USSR has been the Environmental Movement. They seek to limit the advancement of our way of life, limitations on our standard of living in the interests of fairness. This country is affluent, and as a result we are clean. We clean up our messes. We clean up other countries messes. Third world countries pollute without regard, they can't afford to do it cleaner. The environmentalist have been asking for $5.00 gas for a long time. Now that it is here they villianize the Oil companies. like they have nothing to do with it. Oil companies are hamstrung. Every time they try to sink a new well they are in Litigation with an environmentalist commie group for years to get permission, meanwhile the Environmentlist screams because the oil company makes a profit and doesn't explore for more oil. B. Hussein had picked up a line that 'Exxon/Mobil is making $1400 a minute in profit' Like that's a bad thing. Last time I checked, we are a capitalist country, as much as Obama would like to change that. what he leaves out is that Exxon pays $4000. a minute in taxes, and pays $15,000 a minute in expenses. That gives them $20,400 a minute in revenue netting them $1400 a minute in profit. That is a 6.9% profit margin. I guess that's too much, that's why Exxon/Mobil is the only American oil company we have left. Obama wishes to punish the oil companies with a "windfall Profits Tax" the last president stupid enough to do this was the great peanut farmer, carter, and that led to rationing and gas shortages. Add another tax and the oil companies will sell it elsewhere. it is a world market, after all. At least now when we go into a station there is gas there to be had. Christi and I have a full size van, a 4x4 pickup and a 4x4 Suburban. I won't buy anything smaller, period.

Say what you will about their policies,

Thank you, I have.

but you should not discount the intelligence and the hard work of the people who contribute their energy to giving their best advice to the country's future.

Sure they work hard, and they are wrong. Consistently.

The contributors to the counter terrorism blog you reference do have some impressive credentials, but I have to say author Jeffrey Imm's reference of Wikipedia as a source for his Islam definition left me disappointed.
>
> Many denominations of religions refer to their way as the one true path, condemning others to a horrible fate. Many of these faiths have been used to justify horrible things: crusades, inquisitions, slavery, appeasement, and genocide. Christians are certainly not excluded from this tragic history.

Yes, History. When were the last Crusades?! Good grief, these islamo-fascists are still doing it now! This is the same mindset we fought and defeated in WWII. I just hope we have the will to do what is necessary now.

As you correctly clarified, we can not blame all Muslims for the work of extremists.

You couldn't blame all the Germans for the work of the Nazis, either, but we bombed them all into surrender. Their will to fight must be utterly and completely broken. until then the fight will drag on, and on, and on, bloody year after bloody year. This is why the Israeli/Palestinian issue will never be resolved on the current terms. There is no victor. The Palestinians and every other Arab country in the region believe that Israel has no right to exist. Israel, surprisingly, believes it has a right to exist. Those two divergent points of view don't square, and so they have fought for 61 years. The left protests because we support Israel. I say turn Israel loose, let them finish the job. No opposing military in the region has been able to hold a candle to the Israelis, but it is not for lack of trying. Only then will there be Peace.

>
> The footnote you presented about jihad does use the word pillar, but it is not one of the pillars of Islam, the basic beliefs. If you read book 2, verse 190 it states, "fight in the Way of Allah [God] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits". That is the translated Quran text and an overwhelming number of Islamic scholars stated that the acts of 9/11 were an abomination of the Islamic faith. The taking of innocent lives is forbidden. As far as the footnote is concerned, footnotes are interpretations and clarifications provided by editors. Depending on the denomination, you will find markedly different interpretations of sections of the Biblical texts. I can not identify which Quran text that site is using, but I can say jihad is not a term solely reserved for external conflicts, but for battling inner turmoil also. If people are are using their faith to help themselves and their community/world, I applaud it; if people are are using their faith to cause fear and destroy others, I renounce it. I don't care what symbol is in the doorway.

Yes, but those people who believe in Peace amongst the Islamists do nothing to stop those who wish to kill us.
>

> Sen. Obama academically earned his way into the Princeton undergraduate program, then the Harvard Law Program. He went through these programs with the help of student loans and scholarships. Princeton and Harvard are among the finest academic institutions in the country, educating eight presidents in their history. Sen. Obama taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago. University of Chicago graduates have earned 26 Nobel Prizes, and served in numerous government positions. It does not distribute it's teaching positions lightly. Intelligently disagreeing with someone's political position and making libelous claims are extremely different things. I would hope for more of the former in this election season.

"I would hope for more of the former in this election season."

Yea, good luck with that. President Bush went to Yale, and for 8 years we have had to endure him being called an idiot or worse, now we are supposed to respect Obama's credentials
Don't be mean to Barack Obama he, and his party have it coming, and will get it in spades.

>
> As a teacher, I have seen many students "change their names" with no nefarious plots behind the switch: Esteban becomes "Steve", Jastrzebski becomes "Jub", Wojciechowski becomes "Woj". Sometimes it's because it's easier for others to say, sometimes it's because it's easier for others to spell, sometimes students tire of explaining it, sometimes students get a nickname that sticks, and sometimes students get picked on because their names are different from what their classmates are used to hearing. I don't pretend to know what generated the name Barry in Barack's youth, but I do know the name on his birth certificate is Barack Hussein Obama, after his father. Here's a link to a copy of it: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ama-birth.html. Some people called me "Timmy" when I was little. When I correspond with people now, I use my legal name Timothy. I have had at least a dozen nicknames in my life, but I have always been Tim at my core. It's one thing to disagree with a candidate's stances, but conflating a nickname with a terror plot seems to stretch the bounds of decency.
>
> It was my mistake to use the casual phrase, "happened upon" in describing Sen. Obama's decision to join Trinity United Church of Christ. Through the connections he made with the economically devastated families on the south side of Chicago, he found out about, visited and decided to join Trinity UCC. While I was concerned with the comments now-retired minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright made and were later renounced by Senator Obama;

You don't attend a church for 20 years, and then just suddenly figure out who the minster is and renounce him. That was one of the most Political expedient moves I've seen since the Clinton Administration. This is a prime example of why we cannot believe Obama. You do not get married in, have your children Christened in, attend services in a church that consistently pontificates this kind of message, unless you agree with it. The Rev. Laird Keever has taken over the pulpit at St. Pauls UCC in Wheatland. He interjects stabs at our current President regularly and gives political speak from the pulpit. We quit attending, and will not be back until he is gone. Otherwise we are members, as our family has been for 5 Generations in Wheatland. I don't go to church to hear Politics from either side of the spectrum. Rev. Wright should be stood up against a wall and shot. I have a rather dim view of seditious speak.

I applaud that churches overall work in serving a community with diverse challenges especially is the outreach areas of education, counseling, career development, medical access, human rights, and legal assistance; services that are frequently scare or out of reach of the less fortunate members of our society. While the member congregations of the United Church of Christ may vary in their leanings, the church's historic commitment to social justice is the thing of which I am most proud. Highlights include:
>
>
> Human Rights for Women:
>
> In 1853, Antoinette Brown was the first woman since New Testament times to be ordained as a Christian minister, and elected to serve a Christian congregation as pastor.
> In 1889, Hartford Seminary in Connecticut is the first in the nation to admit women into regular classes, training them for work in education and missions. http://www.hartsem.edu/about/history.htm
> In 1995, The New Century Hymnal, the only hymnal released by a Christian church that honors in equal measure both male and female images of God; is published by The United Church of Christ.
> Human Rights for Americans with Disabilities:
> In 1817, Rev. Thomas Gallaudet opened the Connecticut Asylum for the Education of Deaf and Dumb Persons. In 1856, a national school for the deaf, later bearing Gallaudet’s name, opened in Washington, D.C. 1977: Born without arms, Harold H. Wilke became the first leader of national UCC disabilities ministries. He served as pastor, author, denominational executive, activist, and advocate for persons with disabilities. Wilke was present when President George H.W. Bush signed the Americans with Disabilities Act, and accepted a signing pen with his left foot.
> Human Rights for African Americans:
> By 1700, Congregationalist Samuel Sewell had already written the groundbreaking anti-slavery pamphlet, “The Selling of Joseph.”
> In 1773, Phillis Wheatley, a member of the Old South congregation publishes “Poems on Various Subjects”; and becomes the first published African American author.
> In 1785, Lemuel Haynes starts his career as the first African American ordained by a Protestant denomination.
> In 1839, forefathers of the United Church of Christ were among those who organized to free the passengers of the slave ship Amistad. Eventually, The Supreme Court ruled the captives were not property, and the Africans regained their freedom.
> “In 1846 Lewis Tappan, one of the Amistad organizers, organizes the American Missionary Association—the first anti-slavery society in the U.S. with multiracial leadership. It unites Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Methodists and other Christians.”
> In 1858, twenty residents of the Oberlin, Ohio community including members of the First Congregational Church and students from the (Congregationalist founded) Oberlin College are jailed for violating the Fugitive Slave Law.
> In 1959, Martin Luther King Jr. asked the United Church of Christ to intercede on behalf of the growing civil rights movement as southern television stations denied news broadcasts of protests. Legal action organized by the UCC lead to a Federal ruling declaring that the airwaves were public property.
> In 1960; Albert Lutuli, a leader of United Congregational Church of South Africa; was honored by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee for his non-violent protest campaign. He opposed the apartheid policies until his death in 1967.
> In 1976, Rev. Joseph H. Evans was elected president of the United Church of Christ, the first African American leader of a large, racially-integrated denomination in the United States.
>
> It is a shame that after being browbeaten by the media and his opponents, that Sen. Obama felt compelled to leave his congregation based on what somebody else said.

He didn't have to, but it was Politically expedient. Rather than believe and stand up for it, he sees what way the political wind is blowing and puts up a sail and heads that way. That is a complete absence of leadership. The same absence exhibited by William Jefferson Blythe Clinton. He was no leader, either.

Based on a few sound bytes looped and played ad nauseam,

There were more than a few, and over many years, consistently. From Trinity's own tapes.

the good works of a congregation, denomination, and all their members were maligned.
>
> It is obvious that we gravitate to different regions of the political sphere, and it's perfectly acceptable to disagree. This is America, and a right to hold our beliefs is sacred. Informed debate makes the country strong; but if we perpetuate an atmosphere of attack politics based on conspiracy, speculation, and slanders, how can we come together as a nation and work on the problems that effect us? Is the system so irrevocably broken that we are reduced to taking pot shots at each side?

Obviously so. Politics used to 'end at the waters edge' but the Democrats have seen an end to that with this President trying to conduct foreign affairs. everytime Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Richard Durbin, Ted Kennedy, Robert C(lan) Byrd go on TV and apologize because 'we are in this war because Bush lied' they give fodder to our enemies, and the will to keep fighting. Obama deserves no less from the Republicans if elected. You can't have it both ways.

>
> In this case, I would like to agree to disagree with positions you have forwarded, and thank you for at least reading my responses.

ditto. >

> Peace,
>
> Timothy
>

I'm enjoying the debate,


Daniel

[Vladimir]

Originally Posted by Marlin T

five pillars of Islam? He talks like that is a good thing, ha!

Make sure to read the Koran and what it says about it’s “pillars” (Make to read the footnote at the bottom of the page)
Maybe you could send him this, Jihad, Islamism, and the Challenge of Anti-Freedom Ideologies

Islam is going through the same thing Christianity did, which time-wise might actually be almost identical.

Remember when the Pope authorized killing any infidel during the Crusades? My point isn't to defend the radicals in any way, but to point out that you can take the Bible and totally make it sound evil as well. I mean how many offenses are people supposed to be stoned for?

The fact is very few Christians follow that idea, and relatively few Muslims follow the similar passages of the Koran.

Again, not defending the extremists in any way. But whether we like it or not, at some point we are going to have to live peacefully with these people. Not to mention it is hardly in our interest to make more enemies. We need to be careful (we as in everyone, our country, the world, our politicians, us, etc.) in our attacks. There are more than a few extremists these days who turned against us because they were convinced our war is against Islam- of course it isn't, but for a region that lacks complete and free media, good government, and instead has poverty, and men who are willing to feed you (and then tell you how evil the US is)... well it's a recipe for disaster. When a soldier shoots up the Koran, it hardly means the US is going to war against Islam... but with a little spin how is that going to look to a young Muslim who hasn't had a hot meal in a week (when someone is offering him a hot meal, who happens to provide a lecture on how evil we are)?

What we need to do is turn Muslims against the extremists, plain and simple. It's easy to do, look at the governments of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. The problem is these privileged people know the truth, but the guy down the street who hasn't had the hot meal doesn't know the truth... who do you think he is going to listen to? His government? As conservatives we should laugh at that notion, few people are going to go to their government for direction. Again, particularly when there is someone else down the street offering you a hot meal.

What we need to create is a world where any semi-leaning extremist is AFRAID to open his mouth with ANYTHING remotely extremist, for fear of being turned in by other Muslims.

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Islam is going through the same thing Christianity did, which time-wise might actually be almost identical.

Remember when the Pope authorized killing any infidel during the Crusades? My point isn't to defend the radicals in any way, but to point out that you can take the Bible and totally make it sound evil as well. I mean how many offenses are people supposed to be stoned for?

Actually, no I don't remember that, that's kinda my point. the Islamists may be going through what the Christians went through, but the difference is we Christians had our last Crusade in 1229 A.D., 779 years ago and counting. The world, and one would hope, humanity have advanced a little since then, but these radicals are still fighting as though it were the 13th Century.

Originally Posted by Vladimir

The fact is very few Christians follow that idea, and relatively few Muslims follow the similar passages of the Koran.

Again, not defending the extremists in any way. But whether we like it or not, at some point we are going to have to live peacefully with these people.

No, at some point they must be utterly defeated. That is the only way they will decide that war will not achieve their goals, it will only serve to weaken their position. Then they will begin to come around to someone we can co-exist with. Until then, they will kill as many of us as they can, with no compunction, no remorse.

Originally Posted by Vladimir

Not to mention it is hardly in our interest to make more enemies. We need to be careful (we as in everyone, our country, the world, our politicians, us, etc.) in our attacks. There are more than a few extremists these days who turned against us because they were convinced our war is against Islam- of course it isn't, but for a region that lacks complete and free media, good government, and instead has poverty, and men who are willing to feed you (and then tell you how evil the US is)... well it's a recipe for disaster. When a soldier shoots up the Koran, it hardly means the US is going to war against Islam... but with a little spin how is that going to look to a young Muslim who hasn't had a hot meal in a week (when someone is offering him a hot meal, who happens to provide a lecture on how evil we are)?

What we need to do is turn Muslims against the extremists, plain and simple. It's easy to do, look at the governments of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Iraq. The problem is these privileged people know the truth, but the guy down the street who hasn't had the hot meal doesn't know the truth... who do you think he is going to listen to? His government? As conservatives we should laugh at that notion, few people are going to go to their government for direction. Again, particularly when there is someone else down the street offering you a hot meal.

What we need to create is a world where any semi-leaning extremist is AFRAID to open his mouth with ANYTHING remotely extremist, for fear of being turned in by other Muslims.

You are right in your assessment, but complete and total victory is the only path that will lead to a lasting peace.

[Vladimir]

Originally Posted by dcd_enterprises

Actually, no I don't remember that, that's kinda my point. the Islamists may be going through what the Christians went through, but the difference is we Christians had our last Crusade in 1229 A.D., 779 years ago and counting. The world, and one would hope, humanity have advanced a little since then, but these radicals are still fighting as though it were the 13th Century.

I dunno, we have flush toilets but how much have we actually advanced? I think most our changes are out of force, and in fact we have probably gotten worse. If CNN and Amnesty International didn't exist, wars would still be fought like in the middle ages.

No, at some point they must be utterly defeated. That is the only way they will decide that war will not achieve their goals, it will only serve to weaken their position. Then they will begin to come around to someone we can co-exist with. Until then, they will kill as many of us as they can, with no compunction, no remorse.

Ah, yes, EXTREMISTS must be UTTERLY defeated, I agree 110%. However, what I was referring to was Muslims in general. We NEED to defeat the extremists, but we want to make sure we don't piss off every Muslim in the process. If only because strategically it would be an error (I also think it would be "the right thing" to do).[/quote]