help W.E.Goforth

[smirky11]

I have limited info on manufacture date and market value on supposed rare iver johnson .44, it is a 5 shot revolver, 2-1/2" octagon barrel, american bulldog stamped in top strap [1st edition?], cyl. bore checked out @ .462, how do you determine if webley? does webley make more or less collectable? revolver has 95% nickel intact, excellent grips and in fine working condition.

[b.goforth]

to the best of my knowledge the American Bull Dog 44 was only manufactured in one caliber, what was known as the 44 Webley. catalogs of the era simply state the caliber as 44 Webley. these revolvers will also chamber and fire the 44 Bulldog catridge, which is a american reduced loading of the 44 Webley. i have examples of each of these cartridges (manufacturer unknown) and the head stamp on the 44 Webley is marked 44 Webley and the 44 Bulldog is marked 44 BD

because of the large number manufactured and the batch numbering method used the only dating of the American Bull Dog is to the era of manufacturer. i do not believe any caliber of the American Bull Dog's are rare, however the 44 and 22 chambering do bring a premium. the 22 rimfire production seem to have been very limited but the 44 Webley was offered from the beginning of the first model in 1882 until the end of the second model in 1899.

AMERICAN BULL DOG FIRST MODEL----------------------------1882-1884
AKA: LION DOUBLE ACTION; OLD HICKORY DOUBLE ACTION
Sold under the Brand names Lion, Old Hickory, Navy Favorite and Ajax Army also. Offered in four frame sizes and six calibers. Saw handle shaped grip frame and Eagle design on the hard rubber grip panels. All are Nickel finished. Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire, medium frame .32 rimfire & centerfire, large frame .38 rimfire & centerfire, extra large frame .44 Webley & .44 Bulldog; Barrel length and shape: small, medium & large frame 2 ½ inches round, extra large frame 2 7/16 inches octagon, 6 inch barrel length in extra large frame part octagon & part round; Weight: small frame 9 5/8 ounces, medium frame 11 ½ ounces. large frame 19 5/8 ounces. ex. Large frame 19 7/8 ounces; Cylinder capacity: small frame 7, medium, large & extra large frame 5; Height: small frame 3 ¾ inches, medium frame 3 ¾ inches, large frame 4 5/16 inches, extra large frame 4 7/8 inches: Frame length: small frame 4 1/8 inches, medium frame 4 ½ inches, large frame 4 7/8 inches, ex. Large frame 4 7/8 inches; Overall length: small frame 5 5/8 inches, medium frame 6 1/8 inches, large frame 6 ¾ inches, extra large frame 6 ¾ inches; Extra large frame with 6 inch barrel: weight 19 7/8 ounces, overall length 10 13/16 inches. MODEL NAME MARKED ON TOP STRAP
VALUE: Medium & large frame 32 & 38 calibers-100%=$400 60%=$175
Small frame 22 rimfire caliber Extra large frame 44 caliber 25 % premium over Medium and large frame models

AMERICAN BULL DOG SECOND MODEL----------------------------1885-1899
AKA; NAVY FAVORITE DOUBLE ACTION; AJAX ARMY DOUBLE ACTION
Sold under the same Brand names as the First model, square butt with more rounded grip frame, hard rubber grip panels with dogs head design. Four frame sizes. Caliber: small frame .22 rimfire, medium frame .32 rimfire & centerfire, large frame .38 rimfire & centerfire, ex. Large frame .44 Webley & .44 Bulldog; Barrel length and shape: small frame 2 ¼ inches octagon, medium 2 ½ inches octagon, large & extra large frame 2 7/16 inches octagon; Weight: small frame 9 5/8 ounces, medium frame 11 ½ inches, large frame 16 3/8 ounces, extra large frame 19 5/8 ounces, Cylinder capacity: small frame 7, medium, large and extra large frame 5; Height: small frame 3 ¾ inches, medium frame 3 ¾ inches, large frame 4 1/16 inches, extra large 4 3/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 1/8 inches, medium 4 ½, large & extra large frames 4 7/8 inches; Overall length: small frame 5 5/8 inches, medium frame 6 1/8 inches, large & extra large frames 6 ¾ inches; Longer barrel lengths available on medium, large and extra large frames. Frame sizes for the second model are the same as the first model. MODEL NAME WILL BE MARKED ON TOP OF BARREL
VALUE: Medium & large frame 32 & 38 calibers-100%=$350 60%=$135
Small frame 22 rimfire caliber Extra large frame 44 caliber 25 % premium over Medium and large frame models

one last thought the new 30th edition of the Blue Book list values of this and other pre1900 model from 10% to 100%.
bill

[hrf]

Originally Posted by smirky11

how do you determine if webley? does webley make more or less collectable?

To clarify the "Webley" reference further, .44 Webley was the U.S. name for the .442 British revolver round, used in RIC and Bulldog models made by P. Webley & Son of Birmingham, England.