Got My Savage Model 19 Today, I got Very Lucky

[dksac2]

My 19 came today and I was blown away.
The stock has a few scratches in it, we took the action out and it's the original oil finish, the grain is not filled in.

The metal is 98% blued with some nice patina on top of the barrel and a couple other places, the pictures don't show the beautiful patina on the bluing, it's mostly full bluing with about 30% with some patina, the magazine looks like it's hardly even been used.
It has a Wallensak 4 X scope on it, the glass in the scope and cross hair is perfect, Very good trigger, breaks very clean,Marked with several patent dates starting with 1905.

I have never seen a M19 in such wonderful condition, the bore is great, original bluing with just a few scratches in it.

$400. I scored big time on this one. The pictures taken by the dealer didn't really show how nice it is. Tell me what you think and any history I may not know. I know it has the thicker 28" target barrel.

Any 19 below 25,000 is considered to be a low serial number, mine is 54XX, it must have been made in the first year or two of manufacture.

I came stock with the scope mounts and with the heavy 28" barrel, I think it must have been a target model.

Anyone who has info on the early 19's, I'd sure like to know more about this rifle...Thanks
John K

[dksac2]

How can 85+ people look at such a beautiful rifle, crafted when rifles were made by true gunsmiths, hand fit and fantastic designs and not one person make a comment about the rifle ???

It was made in the first year of production, shoots in the .3"'s 5, at 50 Yds in really lousy shooting conditions, heck many new rifles won't shoot that good.

It's not Hey, Look At What I Got, but the shear beauty of an old American classic rifle.

Maybe you are all to busy ordering your pre fit parts for a 10-22 that anyone with an IQ of 80 can build.

I guess I just don't get it.
I'd be drooling over any old rifle in as good of shape that anyone posted.

I thought I'd share a fairly Rare Savage Target 22 rifle, at least someone would find it to be worth a comment. Have things changed that much that only new ninja rifles that don't shoot for crap are interesting, I guess so. too bad, your missing out on a whole world of craftsmanship of days gone by.

So many of the guns built today use the very designs of the internals to make moden rifles.
Last time I share something like this on this site.
Other sites, people who appriciate have looked at this rifle and are better for doing so, they learned where we came from in the world of firearms to where we are today. It's not a super expensive rifle, but is a fantastic rifle of better days. I got more than a few questions, comments and questions. I and others learned new things about old firearms and scopes.
John K

[Big ugly]

I am the resident black sheep here. But I will drop ya a line. I just seen the thread so. I dont know much about that there savage but I will tell you this. I love the older savage rifles. Great shooters. For me if the firearm aint 40+ years old I dont show much interest in it to be honest. I will make an exception for my Ruger Auto Pistols. I had a P91 that I am still kickin myself for gettin rid of it.

I do have a question about that scope and mounts though. What is the Brand on that scope and are those mounts Original?

[GunHugger]

I love the roof on your house, what is that, metal?

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by dksac2

How can 85+ people look at such a beautiful rifle, crafted when rifles were made by true gunsmiths, hand fit and fantastic designs and not one person make a comment about the rifle ???

It was made in the first year of production, shoots in the .3"'s 5, at 50 Yds in really lousy shooting conditions, heck many new rifles won't shoot that good.

It's not Hey, Look At What I Got, but the shear beauty of an old American classic rifle.

Maybe you are all to busy ordering your pre fit parts for a 10-22 that anyone with an IQ of 80 can build.

I guess I just don't get it.
I'd be drooling over any old rifle in as good of shape that anyone posted.

I thought I'd share a fairly Rare Savage Target 22 rifle, at least someone would find it to be worth a comment. Have things changed that much that only new ninja rifles that don't shoot for crap are interesting, I guess so. too bad, your missing out on a whole world of craftsmanship of days gone by.

So many of the guns built today use the very designs of the internals to make moden rifles.
Last time I share something like this on this site.
Other sites, people who appriciate have looked at this rifle and are better for doing so, they learned where we came from in the world of firearms to where we are today. It's not a super expensive rifle, but is a fantastic rifle of better days. I got more than a few questions, comments and questions. I and others learned new things about old firearms and scopes.
John K

Ya know, I really really LOVE the rifle and the pics... but when you go and STICK krap like that in OUR FACES, it's pretty PISSY !!! I happen to have just looked at this thread and was looking quite forward to it. You have to realize that with 85 views, just how many of the "views" are from outsiders looking in and those that are not even members. There are ALOT of people that like to just "windows shop", there is no need for your lack of respect.

[GunHugger]

I was just kidding with you above.

I've had similar reaction on some forums with some of my older rimfires. Ruger 1022's are all the younger guys seem to care about. Not in every case but still true with most of them.

I understand how frustrating it is when you take to the time to take pictures, post them along with info about the rifle and nobody replies. But...that's just the way it goes some times.

I own a pile of old rimfires but I don't have one like your's. I wish that I did, very nice and a great shooter also.

I'm sure I have some info about it in my collection of old catalogs and magazines. When I get a chance to look I'll scan and post what I can find for you.

One reason this thread isn't getting a lot of replies is because you have a rifle that most people know little about.

The same thing happened when I posted pictures of a Mossberg 45AS. It's the Spiegel version with only 137 ever made. So it goes to reason that most people never heard of it.

[GunHugger]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

Ya know, I really really LOVE the rifle and the pics... but when you go and STICK krap like that in OUR FACES, it's pretty PISSY !!! I happen to have just looked at this thread and was looking quite forward to it. You have to realize that with 85 views, just how many of the "views" are from outsiders looking in and those that are not even members. There are ALOT of people that like to just "windows shop", there is no need for your lack of respect.

You posted while I was posting.

Truthfully, I thought the same thing as you, but I decided to cut the guy some slack.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by GunHugger

You posted while I was posting.

Truthfully, I thought the same thing as you, but I decided to cut the guy some slack.

and I decided to be truthful, yet keep an open mind and I'm certain myself and probably others have been in the same place of sticking one's foot in places it shouldn't be. Certainly room for DK here and I would love to hear more from him, but I"m not going to sugar coat things........his comment was rude and quite pointed, and I don't ignore that kind of nonsense, this is a place to repsectfully share, not trash the entire membership of TFF.

[GunHugger]

I agree...and being one that usually pisses people off by saying exactly what's on my mind also, I'm not sure why I chose to be a nice guy today.

Could be because I asked about the roof on his house. I do like it.

Honestly, I have been in his shoes myself too so I can understand it from both sides.

Too bad LTS doesn't post here anymore. His comment would be interesting.

[todd51]

Gees, I feel like I just got slapped in the face and I didn't do any thing to deserve it. I just now saw this post for the first time. This is the most courteous sight I have ever been on with people being welcomed and included in all the activities. Those comments are not deserved.

[dksac2]

Thankyou, some people did notice and ask about the rifle.

Sorry for being such an you know what.

I may like older firearms more than a lot of people, thing is, it's our roots, kind of like finding out about the history of our country.

The guns we have today, many are based off of the designs of old firearms. The designers, men such as John Browning and so many othes gave us some of the most fantastic weapons ever made, and the men who made them, with old crude by todays standards lathes and mills were true craftsman.
Guns today are for the most part turned on on CNC machines with very little hand fitting needed. This is why we get the defective one's we do.

The only real exception is some of the guns custom produced in foreign countrys and a handfull of quality firearms made by a few mastergunsmiths in this country.

It just really surprised me that people could look at such a fine rifle and not even ask one question.

As I said, I appoligize to all of you for my post, I was really upset. It seems too many don't care where the design of their modern gun came from or appriciate the quality and the time it took our forefathers to make a weapon.

Gunhugger, that Mossberg is fantastic. Look at the design of the stock, the beautiful action, the old scope. I'd give my left you know what to own such a rare rifle. Please post and give more info on it. It, like all old guns are something we will never see again. We will never see the qualitly, the thougt and time taken to manufacture each gun. Those days are gone. It's true of many things, not just firearms.

I do want to thank you all for your responses. It showed me that some do care about old weapons.
I have more than a few newer guns, but now just look for older one's. I'm retired and my money is limited, but I do find deals from time to time.
The old Savage cost me $400. But I have not seen another like it. I've seen a lot of the later versions, but not the first run rifles. You look at the condition of a 90 + year old rifle like that and I'm amazed it ws so well taken care of.

It has a bolt that is beautiful, one of the fingers that grabs the case rim is machined into the bolt, the other a very nice spring operated extractor. The firining pin has two legs that hit the cartridge rim, a double FP. I've never
seen another in a .22. I'm sure it was because the priming in the old cartridges was not what it is today and it assured ignition.
The action and barrel are all one piece. The machinests has to go down inside the action about 5" and machine the two extractor notches and cut the chamber. It is a cock on close type bolt, smooth as butter.
The scope is a Wallensek scope, built in the earily 30's. From what I've been told it was the only scope they ever made. It's a 4 X and has spider web retical, very fine and easy to see a 1/2" bullseye at 50 yards, quite a nice scope for being so old. I'm still not sure about the scope mounts, I think they were made by Wallensek also. The wallensek design was sold to Redfield, Wallensek did not produce a lot of the scopes.

This rifle never came with a rear sight as it was designed to be a scoped target rifle.
The rifles serial # is 43XX I'm told it was made in the first year of production, 1917
I think for the most part, you older guys like the old weapons better than the younsters. I try to show my older guns to the young shooters and get them interested. I don't need more compitition in buying old guns, but really want people to appriciate where their modern firearm came from.

I am a retired gunsmith, which most likely explains why I like the old guns so much. I have worked on so many of them, made parts that were not available.
Try making a gun part sometime with just a set of files and you will appriciate how tough and the skill the old smiths had.

Anyway, I do hope people will stop and ask questions when they see an old gun posted. I learn something new everytime I look at one. Sometimes I'm facinated at what I learn and see. Sometimes I'm just a grumpy old gunsmith.

Oh, the roof is my next door neighbors, I have shake shingles on my home, a log cabin which I love. An old hippie built it and hand fitted every log. Metal roofs are great in snow country, but I'm with you, I don't like them. He originally had a sod roof on it, but got tired of the leaks and put a regular roof on it. He was a good woodworker.
My Best to all, John K

[todd51]

I too share your love and appreciation of the guns of that era. Blued steel and wood stocks is what a gun is to me. The fit, the finish, the profile and just the feel of guns of that era is something special.

As to no reply to a post, man it happens for what ever reason, don't sweat it.

That is a great find and a beautiful old Savage.

Todd

[dksac2]

Gunhugger, on your Mossy, is the knob in the middle bottom so the rifle can take a palm rest or just a quick takedown screw to get the action out of the stock?

You didn't see too many autoloader target rifles in years past. Autoloaders were usually for plinking, squirrel hunting etc and bolt guns for target shooting.

Yours is a rare combination. I love the target sights as well as the scope.
Who made the scope? It looks like a 4X. Anyone who has never shot throught an old scope is missing out on something. They are much better than one would think. They don't hold a candle to todays quality scopes, but I think the one on my rifle is better than a couple of the real cheap scopes I have looked through and looked through when test firing repaired rifles.

The rifle is in beautiful condition. The more I look at it, the more I want one, I mean really bad want one. You have a fantastic rifle there. Do you shoot it and if so, how is the accuracy ?

I'm kind of an accuracy buff, but older rifles don't have to be super accurate, althought sometimes they surprise you and will shoot with or better than many new guns.

Also, what year was the model you have made. It has some features than make it look like a newer, older gun and others that make it look like an older, old gun. Does than make sense???

Anyway, be proud of that one. It's a gem

My Best, John K

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

I'm certain myself and probably others have been in the same place of sticking one's foot in places it shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by dksac2

Thankyou, some people did notice and ask about the rifle.

Sorry for being such an you know what.

I may like older firearms more than a lot of people, thing is, it's our roots, kind of like finding out about the history of our country.

The guns we have today, many are based off of the designs of old firearms. The designers, men such as John Browning and so many othes gave us some of the most fantastic weapons ever made, and the men who made them, with old crude by todays standards lathes and mills were true craftsman.
Guns today are for the most part turned on on CNC machines with very little hand fitting needed. This is why we get the defective one's we do.

The only real exception is some of the guns custom produced in foreign countrys and a handfull of quality firearms made by a few mastergunsmiths in this country.

It just really surprised me that people could look at such a fine rifle and not even ask one question.

As I said, I appoligize to all of you for my post, I was really upset. It seems too many don't care where the design of their modern gun came from or appriciate the quality and the time it took our forefathers to make a weapon.
I do want to thank you all for your responses. It showed me that some do care about old weapons.
I have more than a few newer guns, but now just look for older one's. I'm retired and my money is limited, but I do find deals from time to time.
The old Savage cost me $400. But I have not seen another like it. I've seen a lot of the later versions, but not the first run rifles. You look at the condition of a 90 + year old rifle like that and I'm amazed it ws so well taken care of.

It has a bolt that is beautiful, one of the fingers that grabs the case rim is machined into the bolt, the other a very nice spring operated extractor. The firining pin has two legs that hit the cartridge rim, a double FP. I've never
seen another in a .22. I'm sure it was because the priming in the old cartridges was not what it is today and it assured ignition.
The action and barrel are all one piece. The machinests has to go down inside the action about 5" and machine the two extractor notches and cut the chamber. It is a cock on close type bolt, smooth as butter.
The scope is a Wallensek scope, built in the earily 30's. From what I've been told it was the only scope they ever made. It's a 4 X and has spider web retical, very fine and easy to see a 1/2" bullseye at 50 yards, quite a nice scope for being so old. I'm still not sure about the scope mounts, I think they were made by Wallensek also. The wallensek design was sold to Redfield, Wallensek did not produce a lot of the scopes.

This rifle never came with a rear sight as it was designed to be a scoped target rifle.

I think for the most part, you older guys like the old weapons better than the younsters. I try to show my older guns to the young shooters and get them interested. I don't need more compitition in buying old guns, but really want people to appriciate where their modern firearm came from.

I am a retired gunsmith, which most likely explains why I like the old guns so much. I have worked on so many of them, made parts that were not available.
Try making a gun part sometime with just a set of files and you will appriciate how tough and the skill the old smiths had.

Anyway, I do hope people will stop and ask questions when they see an old gun posted. I learn something new everytime I look at one. Sometimes I'm facinated at what I learn and see. Sometimes I'm just a grumpy old gunsmith.

Oh, the roof is my next door neighbor, I have shake shingles on my home, a log cabin which I love. An old hippie built it and hand fitted every log. Metal roofs are great in snow country, but I'm with you, I don't like them. He originally had a sod roof on it, but got tired of the leaks and put a regular roof on it. He was a good woodworker.
My Best to all, John K

That explains it !!

I'm thankful for your courteous response and I can assure you that we're a darn decent group and that we won't hold it against ya. I know I've been in the same "ooopps" boat myself and best thing to do is man up, drink a cold one and move on with new understanding and new friends.

I'm not sure if I fit into the "younger" or "older" group of things, I'm kinda in the middle of it. But I do greatly appreciate the craftsmanship that was put into firearms prior to the mid 70's ( seems to me when most manufacturers started to nose-dive, not all, but many ) I picked up my first Browning ATD just last week, I've had it on lay-away since the end of Dec and I've wanted one for years, Belgian made quality that you can't hardly find nowadays on the shelf. Hand fitting of components and checkering that was done freehand, that attention to detail is worth noting.

I hadn't ever seen a Mod 19 that I know of, so I am thankful to have been enlightened on them. They seem to have been mainly used for target competition, thus possibly explaining why they were better cared for and not abused as much as others. The split firing pin is interesting, I've never heard one like it. I am guessing that it may have been an idea not unlike the Edsel, great idea, but ahead of it's time. Either that, or it just wasn't neccesary. It will be a fun time trying to dig up some info on just why they used that design and why they quit using it.

Looking forward to hearing and learning more, grumpy ole'gunsmiths make for some great conversation and learning opportunities in my book!

Semper Fi,

Woolley

[dksac2]

Thanks for the understanding. I was just in a rotten mood, I have a back that's a train wreck and when the weather changes, there are times I hurt so bad I'd like to eat a bullet, but because of religious beliefs and family would never do that. Last night was one of those nights.

There seems to be a really good group here and I hope I can add to the site.

Your responses to me being an a$$ show what good people you are.

I'm concerned that too many don't know where their modern guns came from and also don't share the shooting sport with their kids, other kids as well as adults.

I had a couple of ladies who approached me and asked if I would teach them firearm safety and how to shoot. I told them to get anyone interested and I'd do a class and then we would all go out and learn to shoot. I'm kinda excited about it. I think if we are going to survive the idiots in D.C. we need to try and get others involved in the sport. Woman are a huge untapped(no pun intended) group, many would love to be able to defend themselves, but are scared of handguns, shotguns and rifles.

Anyway, as a group here, it would be great to share as much info as we can with each other. Not everyone is interested in old guns or even how a gun works, but many are. I also think it's important to answer the simple questions asked by the Newbys. Some questions seem stupid, but many really know nothing about firearms. If we as a group can educate them, we have done not only them a favor, but the shooting sports group a favor.

To me, firearms are so darn neat. I was over at the Savagegunsmithing shop owned by Scott Null, a very good friend and we were taking apart a Savage 1907 380 semi auto pistol the other day, what a neat gun and the machine work and hand fitting was fantactic. Not everone appriciates things like that, but as a retired gunsmith, I love it. I must love guns, you have to if your going to be a Gunsmith, because you never will get rich being a smith.
I have such a great time at Scott's shop, he is one of the few true Master Gunsmiths around. He is such a great smith, it blows me away. I had a shop in the same town and we became friends and helped each other out. Now that I'm retired due to my wonderful back, he has given me full use of his full service shop. It's really neat and saves me a ton of money when I can do things myself.

I'll stop before this becomes a 3 page rant.

My Best to you all, John K

[5string]

Nice lookin gun you have there. The 19 is probably one of my favorites.
here is a later model. it takes a long time to get pics being on dial up.

[Zane71464]

Well, this is the 1st time Ive seen the post and love when people share pics and the history part of firearms! My problem is and has been from time to time, that when I log off and log back on, the new posts arent "highlighted" and it's tough going through all the new posts....I do miss a lot of posts that way.

[dksac2]

5 String, Very nice looking M-19.
Do you have any idea what year it was manufactured. I'd like to know the serial # range, mine is 43XX.
The other amazing ting about these rifles that I have not seen before is that the entire rifle, action and barrel are made from a single pice of steel.

The highly skilled gunsmiths of the day had to go into the end of the action about 5" to cut the extractor cuts, bore and chamber the rifle.
Maybe that accounts for the great accuracy.

What kind of groups have you got with yours. It's a little harder with the open sights than a scoped rifle, but I'd love to know.

I tried Aquila Gold, Federal Auto match and Wolf MT Match, the only one of the 3 that shot good was the Wolf. I want to try some Federal Ultra Match, but at $18.00 a box, I don't shoot it unless the weather is perfect. I have a bunch of bricks of Wolf MT that I got for $45. a brick, far cheaper, I can afford to shoot it when the weather is a little less than perfect.

Great looking rifle. Anything you now about the series, I would love to hear about.

Take good care of her, she beautiful. It's nice to see more old rifles posted. I know there are some really nice one's people have carefully put in their gun safe's.
I'm going to continue to shoot mine, no use in having a rifle and not shooting it unless it's unsafe.

Thanks, John K

[FW!]

I have a 19NRA also. I once thought I would like to collect them but you see so few of them anymore When I go to the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors show I used to see them often. I haven't seen one in about 3 years now. They have 4 shows a year. I do see a Sporter now & then. In the process of looking for my 19 I did aquire a set of Sporters. Good shooters & fun rifles. When I take the 19 to the range I always get admiring comments

[5string]

The ser # range is 41xxx, i was thinking it was later then yours dksac2. It looks like the back of your bolt is more square where mine looks more round. The butt plate has a circle with sVg inside .

It also looks like i have a more oval cut in the receiver where the shells eject.Also notice the bottom plate is a little different.

I hav'nt put it to paper to see how well it groups. i just bring it out once in awhile to plink with.

I dont know what yr the manufacture is.

[Redhand]

Got me one of those puppies, very nice. I also have a Mod.19NRA and a Sporter. Love to shoot them all.

[dksac2]

I've only seen one other like mine for sale, Mine has a very earily ser # 43XX.
I have been told by someone who knows a lot about old Savages that mine was made in the first year of production, 1917. It was made as a target rifle, and the groups it shoots would tend to prove that.
The one I saw had more holes drilled in the receiver than I'd ever seen. Either someone who had no clue as to how to drill and tap a hole or they tried 4 different mount positions. Darn Shame, and they still wanted more than I paid.

I really want to get some other 19's as money allows. I'd like to have a sporter version.

I've seen some pretty nice old Mossys that have caught my eye also.

So many beautiful old rifles, so little money.

John K

[Juker]

It's a gorgeous rifle and I'm insanely jealous of your acquisition and good fortune. Did I miss something as to where/how you got it? Auction? Giveaway? Inheritance?

I'm also a fan of craftsmanship and style. I can't see buying a .22 plinker that looks like an AR-15 that went through the dryer, then spending as much as possible adding as many gizmos as possible to it, ... but hey, that's just me.

[gb6491]

Wow, very nice rifle; somehow, I've been totally oblivious of the full length stock Model 19. In that first photo, it has a certain 1903A4 Springfield look to it. I like that. Thanks for sharing.
Regards,
Greg

[pea shooter]

I have the very same gun with the D shaped ejection port only mine has a shorter stock and a stock mounted peep sight.I was my uncles who was killed in WW2 (1944)and I got it from my grandfather they are very nice and accurate guns I am sure you will enjoy it very much.