Was the Obama Administration complicit in arming cartels to enact new US gun laws?

[ponycar17]

Just read the following couple of articles...

WorldNetDaily

Sunday, June 12, 2011

An impeachable offense?
Exclusive: Roger Hedgecock reveals shocking federal complicity in effort to arm cartels
Posted: June 13, 2011
1:00 am Eastern

By Roger Hedgecock

In 2009, over the protests of gun-shop owners who were reassured by federal agents, Jaime Avila purchased from gun shops in the Phoenix area 575 AK-47 type semi automatic rifles for "personal use." The guns "walked" over the border into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels.

Did the Obama Justice Department encourage gun purchases in the U.S. knowing the guns were illegally "walking" across the border to arm the Mexican drug cartels? Agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, or ATF, involved have come forward admitting it happened.

When some of these guns were used to kill Mexican law enforcement, military and civilians alike (as well as two U.S. federal officers) did the arming of the cartels by policy directive of the Justice Department constitute an act of war against Mexico? Members of the Mexican Congress think so and have opened their own investigation.

Obama has admitted to Mexican media that "mistakes were made" and he will hold "the responsible parties accountable"

To paraphrase an earlier investigation into executive misconduct, what did Attorney General Holder and President Obama know, and when did they know it?

The Mexican government versus the drug cartels war has taken tens of thousands of lives and cost billions of dollars. The Mexican narco gangs get weapons from a variety of sources, including from AWOL Mexican troops seeking better pay from the cartels and bringing their U.S. made and provided weapons with them.

But in 2009 and 2010 weapons privately purchased in the U.S. were ever more frequently found at violent Mexican drug crime scenes.

Operation Fast and Furious and Project Gunrunner were budgeted, official programs of ATF, an agency of the Justice Department, and they were programs ATF knew resulted in arming the cartels.

How did this happen?

In 2009, it became standard Obama & Co. political rhetoric to blame U.S. gun shops and gun shows for selling quantities of guns to "straw buyers" who then sent the guns south to arm the cartels, an evil that must be stopped, they said, through stricter U.S. gun-control laws.

What was not known then but has been revealed since is that the charge was correct, but it was the administration itself that encouraged the gun sales.

Reporter Sharyl Attkisson of CBS News blew the story wide open this spring in a series of on-air interviews with ATF agents who had been involved in Operation Fast and Furious and Project Gunrunner. These interviews of courageous whistle-blowing agents tell a story of federal government programs deliberately designed to arm the Mexican cartels and put the blame on American gun dealers.

ATF maintains that the idea was to let "little fish" go to snag the "big fish," to set up an irresistible stream of weapons to lure the cartel capos to a bust. Was this a "sting" gone wrong or a later concocted cover story? No such bust ever occurred, and ATF now admits that it "lost track" of the weapons.

CBS reported that more than 2,500 guns were allowed to walk across the border. Mexican authorities have recovered hundreds of them at deadly Mexican crime scenes involving the cartels. And American authorities have now found these guns in drug-related crime scenes in the U.S.

Worse yet, Border Patrol agent Brian Terry was killed in a shootout with Mexican cartel soldiers in Arizona, and two guns recovered from the scene were identified as coming from the "sting" that went wrong. The two guns were among those purchased with ATF approval over the objections of Phoenix-area gun shops by Jaime Avila.

CBS News reported last week that a Mexican army helicopter was downed by cartel gunfire, and again guns from the "sting" operations were recovered from the scene by Mexican authorities.

Meanwhile in the U.S., horrible destructive forest fires burn out of control in the Southwest; local newspapers report that an "unattended campfire" was the cause of the biggest blaze in Arizona. Camp Fire Girls? Boy Scouts?

The Mexican cartels have seized control of drug distribution in neighborhoods from Portland, Maine, to Portland, Oregon. Dozens of entry points for drug and human smuggling are well defined and well known along the largely open 1,600-mile border. Law enforcement on both sides of that border are bought, compromised or killed.

Larry Link died, shot dead on his property 47 miles north of the border in Hildago County, New Mexico, two weeks ago. The area is a known drug-smuggling route, and locals go about routinely armed. No one was surprised at Mr. Link's assassination. All along the border, Americans live in fear and increasingly under the influence of the cartels.

We are losing our country while the politicians in Washington play stupid games over border security.

One who is determined to get to the bottom of the gun-walking programs is Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform. He has scheduled a public hearing today on the Gunrunner/Fast and Furious programs.

Issa's subpoenas for more information have been stonewalled by Obama and Holder. In the last few days, facing Chairman Issa's promise of contempt of Congress charges unless the subpoenas are complied with, new administration witnesses have been promised.

In Ronald Reagan's second term, public disclosure that his administration had sold tactical missiles to Iran to fund the Contras fighting the communist Sandinistas in Nicaragua without the knowledge of Congress ignited a firestorm that threatened Reagan with impeachment.

Chairman Issa told me in an interview that Iran/Contra had more controls over who got the missiles and what they were capable of than the guns that the Obama administration allowed to walk into Mexico and into the eager hands of the deadly Mexican cartels.

Did Obama and Holder approve and fund programs to help arm the Mexican cartels with weapons sold in the U.S. to achieve a gun-control objective? The Issa hearings could give us an answer to that question.

Emphasis in bold was added by me...

From http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE...&pageId=310401

So, I call into question Obama's own words from the next article, where he reportedly stated, according to Sarah Brady on March 30, 2011,

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

From http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/2...der-the-radar/

So, does this or does this not ring true to the words of Rahm Emanuel, Obama's first White House Chief of Staff, when he said the following on November 19, 2008 at the Wall Street Journal CEO Council in Washington, D.C.?

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I mean by that, it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before."

From http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow

Has this been the modus operandi for the entire Administration since taking office in January of 2009?

[ponycar17]

Add in this article that was dated June 14, 2011 from CNN.com...

Report: Many weapons used by Mexican drug gangs originate in U.S.

June 14, 2011|By Ed Payne, CNN

A trio of Democratic U.S. senators called for tougher firearms laws and regulations after releasing a report that showed a large number of weapons used by Mexico drug gangs originate north of the border...

Continued at http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/u...gangs?_s=PM:US

Coincidence?...

[Salvage33]

Can't remember where I read it, but it was in one of the mainstream media outlets, but they reported that the vast majority of the weaponry the cartels are using are brought in across Mexico's SOUTHERN border from Guatemala.

The statistics spewed by the MSM about the bulk of the firearms coming from the USA is bogus. Of the firearms RECOVERED by the Mexican police and military that had serial numbers, there were some that originated in this country.

Is the Obama administration complicit? I say yes, Operation "Fast and Furious" had to be cleared at the highest levels of the Justice Department, and hopefully those in the BATF who set this up and ran it will see the inside of Leavenworth Prison. Perhaps Atty. Gen. Eric Holder gave this operation the blessing it needed to get off the ground.

As another unintended consequence, Mexico is preparing to sue the manufacturers of said firearms, the sellers of said firearms, and the U.S. Gov't for allowing them into Mexico, and will do so in U.S. Federal Courts. What a load of crap...just my opinion.

John

[Marlin T]

The simple answer to your question, "Was the Obama Administration complicit in arming cartels to enact new US gun laws?"
Is yes, of course they are!

You posted some great links and here is another one from June 17, 2011
House of Representatives,Two AK-47s Used to Murder Mexican Lawyer Were 'Fast and Furious' Guns From U.S., Sources Say

Keepandbeararms.com has a couple of articles a day about Operation Future Gun Control.

Liberals/Democrats anyways, it is almost easy to categorize them all as a bunch of very evil people.

[jack404]

what i read was of the 18000 something guns recovered 300 something where US sourced they thought more could have been but could not prove it

the more was around the 200 -300 MAYBE...

[hogger129]

In a word.... Yes.

The ATF forced American gun dealers to sell weapons to known criminals. Weapons which were smuggled through Mexican drug cartels and came back to kill at least two Federal agents.

I hope this turns into Obama's Watergate. I believe he knows exactly what's going on, and if caught, will play dumb.

I wouldn't be surprised if Slick Willie put him up to the idea.

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by Salvage33

Can't remember where I read it, but it was in one of the mainstream media outlets, but they reported that the vast majority of the weaponry the cartels are using are brought in across Mexico's SOUTHERN border from Guatemala.


John

Here's a quote from Wikileaks -

‘Over 50 per cent of the military-type weapons that are flowing throughout the region have a large source between Central American stockpiles, if you will, left over from wars and conflicts in the past,’ said General Douglas Fraser, the head of the U.S. Southern Command in the memo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Nx0p7gq1

Obviously, only a small fraction of the cartels' weapons are of civilian origin.

This quote also demonstrates that U.S. officials are well aware of this fact.

Yes, the U.S. federal gov't is trying to con the American people with lies in order to enact more anti-Second Amendment laws.

There's nothing new about this. Back in 1989, the Bush administration was using the same lie (that U.S. gunshops were arming Mexican gangs) to promote restrictions on so-called "assault weapons".

[permafrost]

Do you think people who can afford used submarines and have access to the biggest illicit arms dealers in the world are seriously gonna arm them selves with one semi auto AR or AK at a time. This was about US gun control only.

[Double D]

Come on guys. Whos money is behind EVERY single gun law proposed in this land? Give up? George Soros. The puppet master might have stepped on his thingie. I just wish it mattered and we could or would do something about it..........besides sweeping it under the rug as usual. Poor rug.

[flintlock]

The simple answer is yes.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by ofitg

Here's a quote from Wikileaks -

‘Over 50 per cent of the military-type weapons that are flowing throughout the region have a large source between Central American stockpiles, if you will, left over from wars and conflicts in the past,’ said General Douglas Fraser, the head of the U.S. Southern Command in the memo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1Nx0p7gq1

Obviously, only a small fraction of the cartels' weapons are of civilian origin.

This quote also demonstrates that U.S. officials are well aware of this fact.

Yes, the U.S. federal gov't is trying to con the American people with lies in order to enact more anti-Second Amendment laws.

There's nothing new about this. Back in 1989, the Bush administration was using the same lie (that U.S. gunshops were arming Mexican gangs) to promote restrictions on so-called "assault weapons".

Well I pulled up some of the lies here so we can all look at it and get the truth right...

A trio of Democratic U.S. senators called for tougher firearms laws and regulations after releasing a report that showed a large number of weapons used by Mexico drug gangs originate north of the border.

More than 70% of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

The report, released Monday, is the latest element in a debate over how large a role the United States plays in arming the ruthless Mexican drug cartels that are responsible for more than 34,000 killings since 2006.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/u...gangs?_s=PM:US

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-mexico-come/

EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.

-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.

-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.

-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."




-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."

There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:

It's just not true.

In fact, it's not even close. The fact is, only 17 percent of guns found at Mexican crime scenes have been traced to the U.S.

What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."

But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.

"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.

Video:Click here to watch more.

A Look at the Numbers

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

'These Don't Come From El Paso'

Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.

The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

Boatloads of Weapons

So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.

In a remarkable claim, Auturo Sarukhan, the Mexican ambassador to the U.S., said Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States -- 730,000 a year. That's a far cry from the official statistic from the Mexican attorney general's office, which says Mexico seized 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008.

Chris Cox, spokesman for the National Rifle Association, blames the media and anti-gun politicians in the U.S. for misrepresenting where Mexican weapons come from.

"Reporter after politician after news anchor just disregards the truth on this," Cox said. "The numbers are intentionally used to weaken the Second Amendment."

"The predominant source of guns in Mexico is Central and South America. You also have Russian, Chinese and Israeli guns. It's estimated that over 100,000 soldiers deserted the army to work for the drug cartels, and that ignores all the police. How many of them took their weapons with them?"

But Tom Diaz, senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center, called the "90 percent" issue a red herring and said that it should not detract from the effort to stop gun trafficking into Mexico.

"Let's do what we can with what we know," he said. "We know that one hell of a lot of firearms come from the United States because our gun market is wide open."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...#ixzz1PpIE8CJA

The TRUTH is that out of all the weapons that CAN even be traced back to the United States - because you have to remember there are all kinds of weapons there that do not come from the US, 17% of ALL the weapons ever traced can be traced back to the United States.

[millwright]

According to some reports there's over 300,000 seized firearms in a warehouse in Mexico !

Many, no doubt, traceable back to various U.S. military aid programs to Mexico, South and Central American nations. Sen. Grassley has specifically requested identifying information on all arms shipments to these nations.

It appears more of the media is catching on to the OA's highly selective parsing of traced gun statistics. Perhaps that's why his recent claim of having created over 2 million jobs in the private sector was met with laughter...... >MW

[cycloneman]

Yes

The admin is:

Commie, criminal, Vile, lying, murdering, hostile, despicable, poisonous, rat infested, Conniving, puss oozing, unholy, cottage cheese eating, monkey dung, stinky, yeast infected, flea bitten, scum sucking, less than zero, gutless, bottom feeders, good for nothing, wasted, baby making, leaches, two faced, talk out of their a$$, low life, toad suckers, yellow belly, camel humping, rabbied, drug induced coma, retarded, sad excuse for wasted space they are.

We should all get together and sue them for infringing on our rights.

[millwright]

But they're in power, Cycloneman !

Never underestimate the Progressive's desire and willingness to contravene our laws in pursuit of their objectives ! By their lights any action is acceptable so long as it achieves their "moral" ends ! >MW

[zkovach]

I gaurantee he did that!! Anthony weiner has more integrity than our president. His whole presidency stinks and so does everyone he appoints!! 2012 can't come soon enough!

[redwing carson]

Members of the Mexican Military sell their arms to the cartels before they fire them. Mexico is falling apart. Yes Obama is using this to force American gun laws. If he is elected for another term he will lead a major attack on American freedom.

[permafrost]

Originally Posted by redwing carson

Members of the Mexican Military sell their arms to the cartels before they fire them. Mexico is falling apart. Yes Obama is using this to force American gun laws. If he is elected for another term he will lead a major attack on American freedom.

I agree, He'll have no reason not to. It will be "balls to the wall" if he gets in again. Damn the law! Nothing but an inconvenience to his crew.

[hogger129]

As for Operation Fast and Furious, Obama is lying, and so is Holder. Don't you think an operation of this proportion would have had some kind of oversight? That would include the Attorney General. And whatever the AG does is always under the direction of the President.

What they need to do is give these ATF guys extremely harsh prison sentences, so that they'll cooperate and narc out their higher-ups.

[Gun Geezer]

Let's see now! Hilary once said that she arrived in a war zone during a fire fight. She lied!
Obozo is a former Illinois politician. That would mean he is a liar and a crook.
Can we believe anything we are told by our government?
I think not!
But as HST once said, "The buck stops here!"

[45nut]

lookie here


March 8, 2011 6:47 PM
Documents point to ATF "gun running" since 2008

By
Sharyl Attkisson


(CBS News)

A controversial operation in which U.S. agents were allegedly ordered not to intervene as American guns flowed to Mexican gangs may have been going on for many years, reports CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson.

Gunrunning scandal at the ATF

A photograph obtained by CBS News shows an astonishing display of high-powered weapons put up for suspected Mexican drug cartel gun buyers. It's a rare glimpse into ATF's controversial undercover operations.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allegedly let gun runners walk off with weapons - thousands of them - to see if they'd end up in the hands of the cartels. The Justice Department and ATF have denied it ever happened.

Special Agent John Dodson works in ATF's Phoenix office and has blown the whistle on the controversial strategy, known as letting guns "walk."

Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Dodson believes there are other ATF operations going on that have done the same thing.

Multiple sources now tell CBS News the questionable tactics were used in more than one operation, and date back as far as 2008 in the Tucson area. One case was called "Wide Receiver."

AK47s vs. bean bags in border drug war

Sources tell CBS News licensed gun dealers often wanted no part of selling to suspicious characters who could be supplying the cartels.

But, sources say, ATF enlisted the gun dealers as paid Confidential Informants and encouraged them to sell even more.

"ATF has asked me to assist in an official investigation," reads one agreement.

Gun salesmen closed the deals, and ATF watched and listened with recording devices.

"ATF Special Agents conducted surveillance...and identified the dates and times that the conspirators... crossed the international border," says one court document.

Dodson argues that something that should never be done. "A lot people are going to get hurt with those firearms between the time we let them go and the time they're recovered again in a crime."

Sources tell CBS News these ATF operations involved about 450 weapons. Despite the risk, two years later the same strategy was expanded to include thousands of guns.

Sen. Grassley asks for investigation

DOJ responds to Sen. Grassley

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/...#ixzz1Q7Nqp2JX

[rimmer1]

Those in the Whitehouse and the Administration are all treasonists. I hope the Senate and the Congress get some balls and go after them. I also hope they all hang, to show that this country does not harbor Socialism and Communism in its Government.

[Marlin T]

GOA's Larry Pratt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC3f0...layer_embedded

[jstgsn]

You think this is bad? Really? Wait until you see the election fraud, dirty tricks, and absolute criminal acts coming from the Democrats in the next election. Our voting booths are going to be visited by illegal alliens, felons, and the dead, not counting the labor union goons who will go from polling place to polling place - voting over and over again. The fraud will be massive, and the cover up just as large.

It ain't gonna be pretty.

[hogger129]

Who says the ATF isn't going rogue? Deciding that they can determine their own policy? I can name at least one other agency who has done it a couple times in the past.